World, Writing, Wealth discussion

Obama's daughter allegedly went one step further than Bill Clinton, who hasn't enhaled:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1588039...
I'm nowhere near legalization camp, but I thought weed should be part of international protocol. Maybe with Obama and Putin sharing one joint in Oval office or Kremlin the antagonizm could be a bit less acute? -:)
Warning: Remember except for the Netherlands and few other places, cannabis is illegal!

I think the POTUS has earned it lol. After he leaves office who knows how he will unwind - especially at Oprah's lavish Hawaii estate!

It is funny what the Presidency, and more broadly politics, does to people. Al Gore lost in 2000 because he was seen as stiff and boring, but he did a fair bit of voice work on Futurama after the election, and listening to him on that show, he sounds like an entirely different person. A commentary on one of the episodes, they talk about how he threw himself into the work, diving into a couch during one of the sessions. Beneath that stiff appearance, there was a fun side to the man that his career in politics had suppressed.

On a side note, his daughter had joined the writing staff during the show's initial run on Fox...

1. The title of this thread... *fist bump*
2. Pot's gonna be legalized here "soon"
3. No comment

I'm definitely for legalization, mainly for economic reasons. But I think nationwide, decriminalization needs to happen. I lived in Ontario for most of my wife where decriminalization happened. Now I live in BC, where weed is practically the provincial flower! And yet, the law remains mired in the previous century.

Police use their discretion when it comes to enforcement though, clearly. There's a weed dealer on the block near to where my wife works (at a Ministry, no less!) and he's been there for years. There's no secret as to what he's doing, but I have yet to see police attempt to shut him down.

Matthew wrote: "There's no secret as to what he's doing, but I have yet to see police attempt to shut him down...."

It happens all too often that everybody knows where the illegal brothel is, underground gambling facility or a drug dealer .... but not the police. Or could they be partners in some of those cases?

Customers = Partners

Yep Nik, it may help global relations no end if they pass a joint round and chill out a bit. :D

I read about an interesting innovation in Portugal a couple of years ago. They decriminalised possession, and put the money saved through reduced policing costs into drug rehab. Drug use in Portugal decreased as a result.

I agree with decriminalisation for the reason that buying drugs enriches criminals. It scares me how rich and powerful they are becoming.

I'm for legalisation.

How do you think the retirement goes for Obama's family? Do you think they enjoy free time or are concentrated on writing a memoir?

I think Michelle was never ok with public life, and Obama is probably enjoying having his less stressful life back. Sure, there will be a memoir, a library, and further public service, but if I were in their shoes, I'd take a long vacation from all of it. What would you do?

Scout wrote: "What would you do? ..."

I think there are positions after which it's a little hard to find motivation for something much less ambitious. I think people after such places similar to astronauts/cosmonauts returning from space - need a rehab... After the rehab - just enjoying life and lecturing seems sufficient, but if a person manages to find something very meaningful to engage in - it's even better

I guess they've found something to do, and it's very lucrative. A book deal for them both estimated at between $35 and $65 million. Something about this just doesn't jibe with their devotion to public service.

Scout wrote: "I guess they've found something to do, and it's very lucrative. A book deal for them both estimated at between $35 and $65 million. Something about this just doesn't jibe with their devotion to pub..."

Hope it's just biz and the result of publisher's estimate of a much higher profit. If it were an unannounced severance pay, that would be kinda problematic...

It's problematic to me that a public servant parlays his time in office into making up to $65 million, an exorbitant amount. This doesn't meet the definition of public service by any means. I know other presidents have had book deals, but nothing like this.

Legalization or not, nobody's waiting it seems ...
Since Clintons and Obamas are both on a democratic side, is weed smoking/non-smoking another differentiating feature between Dems and Reps? -:)

I'd guess Republicans would be against legalization because their base is conservative. I consider myself a conservative regarding immigration and government spending, but I'm liberal in my ideas on abortion and pot. A candidate who thinks like I do would never be elected.

As I understand the legalization of marihuana marches on state level in the States, but not on federal one. Is it on the agenda at any level in coming elections?

It's still illegal according to federal law, but that's not enforced. If Bernie had been elected, it would have become legal. Who knows what Joe will do? As with everything else, he's not taken a stand.

Scout wrote: "...If Bernie had been elected, it would have become legal...."

So, Bernie for president?! Um, he was too high to get the nomination. No hurry, maybe in another 4 years :)

For what it is worth, in the coming NZ elections, there is also a referendum question on legalizing marijuana. No idea how it will go because the actual election is swamping it. Medical marijuana is legal here already.

:-) Nik

Ian, I know what you've said before about legalizing pot. Has your opinion changed at all?

Not really, Scout. I know there are valid arguments both ways, but I don't think (at least here) it will stop the black market, which is the main reason for having it, because governments like to put on a tax. I think there is evidence that, with lower probability, there can be unfortunate long-term problems. As an aside, here medical CBD is legal already, and I am happy with that.

I don't think anything will stop the black market, but if it's legalized, at least you know that what you're getting is free from harmful additives such as PCP, and you know the dosage you're getting, which seems like a plus to me. And it can be taxed, which helps the economy. People will use it whether it's legal or not, and I think I've made a practical case for legalization.

Nik wrote: "As I understand the legalization of marihuana marches on state level in the States, but not on federal one. Is it on the agenda at any level in coming elections?"

It's on AZ's ballot as proposition 207. If passed, 21 or over, you are allowed to have 1 oz of marijuana for personal use and grow up to 6 plants in a locked, non-public area. It sets up the Department of Health to regulate it, including licensing stores and production facilities. It includes a 16% tax (same for tobacco and alcohol).

We have medical marijuana approved already, but have to jump through hoops of doctor appointments, forms, and fees, along with the right amount of cash for each.

I see this issue in the same way as prohibition of alcohol. To take the crime out the only successful route is legalization and regulation. The government (and society) gains by tax revenue and reduced costs of crime fighting prevention. As with alcohol and tobacco there will be a medical cost (There is now) for addiction or side affects. Logically legalizing drugs (Not just pot) makes sense but sense is not common especially in politicians. Noting slow changes in many countries e.g. Canada, Netherlands and elsewhere. AZ proposition seems sensible.

NZ has an election next weekend, and on it are two additional referenda, one for the legalization of marijuana, under a battery of regulations. We shall see what NZ thinks then, although I gather it may take a few days to count the referenda votes (counting MPs votes takes precedence)

Philip wrote: "I see this issue in the same way as prohibition of alcohol. To take the crime out the only successful route is legalization and regulation. The government (and society) gains by tax revenue and red..."

I remember it being a topic in junior high. I advocated for make it legal and tax it when I was 13, at which age I had not tried it, it just seemed sensible given what happened with prohibition.

Interestingly, there is a lot of cigs sold around here for cheap that have no tax stamp. Smuggling them in for a clientele from across the border is pretty common.

I'm all for legalization, yet I've had the opportunity to acquire some pot and haven't done it yet. I think it may help with my back pain, but I'm not sure about the psychological effect it may have, as I have a low tolerance for all types of drugs. I don't like losing control. I do think I will eventually try it, but will be careful with dosage. If it were legalized, I'd be able to control the dosage instead of taking a chance on street pot, which is unregulated.

Scout wrote: "I'm all for legalization, yet I've had the opportunity to acquire some pot and haven't done it yet. I think it may help with my back pain, but I'm not sure about the psychological effect it may hav..."

It's not the same stuff as when we were 20 or whatever. Read up on it or find a friend who can tell you about the differences. Sativa vs. indica. Some strains of weed are high in THC and low in cannabidiol (CBD) — like sativas — while others have about equal parts CBD and THC — like indicas. I gather when buying it with a medical card that the amounts are somehow determined and listed, at least it's what I was told in AZ.

Ultimately, it comes down to our individual responses. Stoned paranoia is never a good look for me, which I gather from my reading is related to the amount of THC. At the same time, it's the THC they say that helps with the sleep issue. I guess like many things in life, it's about finding the right balance.

I gather THC is the "stoning" component.

Ian wrote: "I gather THC is the "stoning" component."

I have been told that sativas which have higher THC is the stuff that has all the mental effects, which indicas (aka in da couch) is the stuff that provides the body relaxation.

Our proposition on the ballot is to make personal use legal - no med card needed. Up to 1 oz and you can grow 6 plants.

That is something like our referendum. The voting here is over, but it will take a week or so to count them, as sorting out the politicians takes precedence.

Let us know how it turns out, Ian, and what you think about the results.

I shall. Right now they are carefully sorting a couple of close electorates, and this is a long holiday weekend coming up, which will slow things.

In Arizona, prop 207 on the legalization of marijuana passed 60%. I have a lot of friends who suffer with pain and sleep problems that don't want to be on medical card list who are pleased to now have options. I have other friends, also suffering, who will not ever try alternatives to prescription medications. My doctor's preference is to try it and reduce the dosage in the fentanyl patch.

I do find it surprising that so many people in my age group are anti-legalization even for medical use only while being quite willing to continue paying big pharma for a medication with so many warnings of negative side effects.

You guys know I'm for legalizing marijuana, although it hasn't passed in my state.

I wonder what you think of this recently-passed legislation: "A nationwide push to relax drug laws took a significant step forward Tuesday as voters made Oregon the first state to decriminalize the possession of small amounts of street drugs such as cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oregon-f...

The way I read that, the proposal is to send small users to a rehab facility rather than jail, which if that is the case, I approve. It is not legalizing the drugs, on my reading; merely trying to help the unfortunates to get a life back. It probably will only have modest success, but it is still worth the effort.

Allowing for its price, calling coke a "street drug" doesn't do it justice .. I kinda suspect many would be surprised how much of it is consumed by politicians, top tier biz, celebs, justices, law enforcement, lawyers and others :)

Nik wrote: "Allowing for its price, calling coke a "street drug" doesn't do it justice .. I kinda suspect many would be surprised how much of it is consumed by politicians, top tier biz, celebs, justices, law ..."

That's why crack exists; good coke is very expensive.

Scout wrote: "You guys know I'm for legalizing marijuana, although it hasn't passed in my state.

I wonder what you think of this recently-passed legislation: "A nationwide push to relax drug laws took a signifi..."

Decriminalizing is not the same as legalizing. Overall, I think we as a nation need to recognize that addiction is beyond race, gender, income, vocation or anything else and that our young people will continue to be lost to what is a disease and not simply a moral failing. To do that, we need treatment facilities that are not tied to whether we have health insurance to cover inpatient and outpatient treatments.

In the early/mid 80s, prior to the mandatory sentencing laws, we had alternatives that allowed for treatment. Sadly, it was those who could afford it that benefitted as those who couldn't and whose insurance didn't cover it rarely benefitted from it. 25% of our prison population in the USA is basically from simple possession and use (not sales and big quantity movers). I hope Oregon is able to put in place a program that works.

Wonder whether Malia and Hunter enjoyed same suppliers and shared moments of "happiness?"