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Wikidata:Project chat

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Wikidata project chat
A place to discuss any and all aspects of Wikidata: the project itself, policy and proposals, individual data items, technical issues, etc.

Please use {{Q}} or {{P}} the first time you mention an item or property, respectively.
Other places to find help

For realtime chat rooms about Wikidata, see Wikidata:IRC.
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On this page, old discussions are archived after 7 days. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at 2024/08.

Populated places and their industries

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My interest is in using Wikidata to capture and present aspects of Scottish history. After a recent conversation about the decline of the Scottish fishing industry, I looked at the available data. Petscan gives a decent category-based list of towns [1], but the place items themselves (e.g. Eyemouth (Q1020260)) lack any data association with fishing.

Looking around, I can see some use of instance of (P31) fishing village (Q1317251) but that seems inappropriate for say Aberdeen. There is also occasional use of industry (P452) on a place (e.g. Bonon (Q2910327), but with warnings that it breaches the Subject Type Constraint, as the property is reserved for use on companies, etc.

I wonder if there is another property to capture the industries of a place? If not, should there be? Or should the use of P452 be relaxed to allow its use for populated places? It strikes me that this or some other Property can underpin a richer understanding of what forms of work activity led to a town emerging/declining: fishing, weaving, salt panning, etc. AllyD (talk) 13:02, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd relax the use of industry (P452) Vicarage (talk) 05:47, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for that response; unless someone suggests a more appropriate info structure, I will take this forward to a proposal at Property talk:P452. AllyD (talk) 07:09, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For Delete

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Logo used in banner

Q123215394

Non results Solman9 (talk) 02:55, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

waiting to be deleted Estopedist1 (talk) 06:36, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Judging from the logo and the huge banner on https://ar.wikipedia.org/ , the Arabic Wikipedia doesn't even pretend to have neutral point of view.
Looks like that got exported here as Q123207466 with over 10.000 items. I don't think Wikidata is the place to do this kind of activism. Multichill (talk) 17:05, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I changed the English and the Russian descriptions bringing them to neutral, but I highly doubt the subject is notable for Wikidata. Ymblanter (talk) 18:10, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions#Bulk_deletion_request:_Palestinian_martyrs. Multichill (talk) 18:05, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The situation is similar to Azerbaijani martyrs (list) which I've created (based on az-sitelinks) and recently proposed for deletion. --Infovarius (talk) 06:32, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Language and Identifiers headings

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Hi everyone,

I have two questions for you.

1. I want to add another language for this data yet it is not allowing me to do it. I want to add Serbian where it would say "Nekretnine.rs je specijalizovani oglasni portal za nekrertnine iz Srbije."

2. For some reason Identifiers section has not been posted, only statements, so I am wondering how I can get that done.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Боки ✉ 14:54, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Section Identifiers has been fixed (I am assuming) automatically Боки ✉ 08:15, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vojtěch Dostál duplicates dates because of “unknown” calendar

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Vojtěch Dostál duplicated the date of birth on Q716769#P569 because he says “we don't know the calendar model”. The reason I'm writing here, because I notified him, and he don't understand what is my problem, he thinks that is perfectly right to do that. He even refuses to set preferred rank for one of them, despite the single-best-value constraint. Please help resolving the issue. – Bean49 (talk) 11:02, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Help:Dates#Entry_of_exact_dates says how to enter dates where the calendar isn't specified, although in practice, I think people just use the default calendar unless the source explicitly says otherwise, because the qualifier it mentions has only been used 533 times (query). Do the references for the Gregorian date actually specify the calendar? If they do, it would make sense to mark the Gregorian date as preferred. If they don't, then the original statement was entered incorrectly, according to that page. - Nikki (talk) 06:48, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Nikki: if the sources specify Gregorian, than the Gregorian one should be ranked as preferred; otherwise, if the source don't specify nothing, I would consider all sources as referring to Julian. This was the duplication; since no source specifies the calendar, as usual, I moved all the sources to Julian. Epìdosis 08:00, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi all. I have very little knowledge about calendar use in databases, and I've started using the Julian calendar as default for pre-1582 dates quite recently based on a suggestion by another user. Perhaps this could be a good job for a bot? I mean, if all databases not specifying a calendar are probably using Julian calendar for pre-1582 dates, we could just ask a bot to change the calendar to Julian? Either by specifying 'safe' databases which are thought to use Julian calendar, or by leaving out the few exceptional databases that really converted the pre-1582 dates to Gregorian calendar. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 08:28, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
in general there is no good rule of thumb for the choice of a calendar model. The transition from Julian to Gregorian calendar lasted until 1923. Any date in between 1582 and 1923 depends on the location of the referred event. But it also depends on the location of the historian describing something. If an Italian / German / British (1752) historian describes an event in Italy, Germany, the British Isles or Russia (cross-country wise), we have two dates involved. If the written history just mentions a date without reference to a calender model in between 1582 and 1923, it is not really possible to derive the calendar model from context in a sure way. see also en:List_of_adoption_dates_of_the_Gregorian_calendar_by_country. best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 16:54, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most of dates of these historic european persons are known from chronicles or church records, so the calendar valid in time and place of event is probably best choice.
This date is now copied to every newer source, usually without soolving Jilian/Gregorian. JAn Dudík (talk) 05:40, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Herzi Pinki Still, pre-1572 dates could be overwhelmingly Julian, right? My proposal pertained to those. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 08:23, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

College management

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i want to make a project for my college which involves all students details with the teachers. 183.87.223.114 10:23, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/ will help. --Herzi Pinki (talk) 17:11, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rendering of coordinate values

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Hi, please have a look at [2]. The values for the two coordinate location (P625) are almost the same (+- 4 meters), but the value displayed in D/M/S format differs a lot (by ~40"N and ~20"E). The real difference is the different precision. It is strange when we add the same decimal value but get quite different values in D/M/S format. I consider this to be a flaw. --Herzi Pinki (talk) 16:44, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

inverse property label item: What is the purpose of most of these?

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inverse property label item (Q65932995) What is the point of most of these? child (Q65933004), stepchild (Q88904799), sibling of (Q105123566), married to (Q105123727), related to (Q105123647), all seem superflous. They never link to anything but one single property, why do they need to exist? Especially when the actual items for these kinships already exist as items. StarTrekker (talk) 12:11, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They enable relateditems (Q102435390) gadget to show derived statements. I'm not sure if they have any other use. Samoasambia ✎ 12:22, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is a workaround; see Wikidata:Property_proposal/inverse_label. The proper solution is multilingual text datatype which does nor yet exist. GZWDer (talk) 14:41, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sign up for the language community meeting on August 30th, 15:00 UTC

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Hi all,

The next language community meeting is scheduled in a few weeks—on August 30th at 15:00 UTC. If you're interested in joining, you can sign up on this wiki page.

This participant-driven meeting will focus on sharing language-specific updates related to various projects, discussing technical issues related to language wikis, and working together to find possible solutions. For example, in the last meeting, topics included the Language Converter, the state of language research, updates on the Incubator conversations, and technical challenges around external links not working with special characters on Bengali sites.

Do you have any ideas for topics to share technical updates or discuss challenges? Please add agenda items to the document here and reach out to ssethi(__AT__)wikimedia.org. We look forward to your participation!

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:18, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Geografic location of sailing ships

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Q1409669 is an sailing ship and moves around. How can this inherently dynamic property (P625) even be used? There are some cases where ships are permanantly fixed and can be used, but this is not one. Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to the corresponding wikipedia article it was used as a lightvessel (Q831515) and was semi-permanently anchored at a specific location for a period of time. I guess adding start time (P580) and end time (P582) to the coordinates would be a useful way of modelling this? M2Ys4U (talk) 11:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Objects that by design travel internationally, like ships, should only use geographical properties country (P17), coordinate location (P625) and location (P276) if they are 1) preserved ships that are museums, private accommodation or spent their time berthed at one spot with occasional forays out, 2) shipwrecks. As others have said, the coordinate location (P625) for the station of a lightships should be coded with has use (P366) lightvessel (Q831515) and their cumulative time periods of active duty. shipping port (P504) can be used for active vessels that out of a particular base port, like a ferry. Vicarage (talk) 12:29, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When the item was created and the coordinates were added, the subject was de:Feuerschiff Elbe 2, a lightvessel position. It was then merged with Atlantis (Q2869415), an item about the ship, and the original sitelink moved to a new item, Feuerschiff Elbe 2 (Q59185088). There should probably be a link between Q1409669 and Q59185088. Peter James (talk) 13:11, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the pair item operated (P121) and operating area (P2541) are used for other lightvessels and their stations. I've added machine (Q11019) as an allowable type to item operated (P121) , and made beacon (Q7321258) a geographic location (Q2221906) to get rid of the warnings. Vicarage (talk) 13:38, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikidata birthday events & microgrants

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Hello all,

As a reminder, the microgrant program proposed by Wikimedia Deutschland to support Wikidata birthday events is still running. You can apply until September 1st at 23:59 UTC. You'll find all the relevant information on this page, feel free to reach out to me if you have any question or issue.

If you know Wikidata groups who may need support to organize a birthday celebration event, feel free to share this message with them!

We are also running organizers calls to answer questions about organizing events and grants. The next one is taking place on August 28th at 18:00 UTC. Feel free to join if you have questions or would like to share your event plans with other organizers.

Best, Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 07:51, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Special rules for Wikinews categories?

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Hello! As I understand it, there is a general rule in Wikidata that if an item has its own category in at least 1 Wikimedia project (except Commons), then we create a separate item for the category and then we link all categories from around Wikimedia to this "category item" (example: Poland (Q36) is Poland and Category:Poland (Q1455901) is Category:Poland). However, my fellow Polish wikimedian Marek Mazurkiewicz has just pointed out to me that this rule does not apply to Wikinews. Apparently, Wikinews categories should be linked directly to the main item. Could anyone else please confirm that there is such an exception (and what are the reasons for that, if you know them?). Thank you in advance. Powerek38 (talk) 08:16, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I can confirm this. The reason is that for Wikinews a category is the basic object, they do not have an analog of a Wikipedia article (a single news is not such an analog). Ymblanter (talk) 17:55, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source the item itself

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Could be the source the item itself? Let me give you an example. I add the item (let say Qfoo) of a certain book version, edition or translation (Q3331189) that it was printed 10 000 times. Can I reference total produced (P1092): 10 000 by the item I am in (Qfoo)? Juandev (talk) 09:55, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References should be outside the Wiki* system, because of the "no original work" rule means they are just collating information, not defining it. So not only is Wikidata not a valid reference, nor is English Wikipedia, though the latter rule is often abused by bots. Vicarage (talk) 10:11, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But this is not using Wikidata as a reference - books themselves often state how many exemplars were printed, so in this case it seems fine (to me) to use stated in (P248) with the item itself Uniwah (talk) 10:17, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are right. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Sources#Books Vicarage (talk) 10:37, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is an interesting point. As books looks like a special case, because they include lots of standardized informations about themselves. Juandev (talk) 10:39, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mix'n'Match

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Anyone else have trouble loading https://mix-n-match.toolforge.org/#/? I'm either stuck infinitely loading a blank page or just the page being blank

Only way i have managed to access the site is by using an URL like https://mix-n-match.toolforge.org/?#/search/<insert anything here> Trade (talk) 11:18, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even when searching and matching entries it takes a really, really long time Trade (talk) 11:24, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"The Future of Wikidata Events" Report Now Available on Wikimedia Commons

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Hello,

We are excited to announce the release of the "The Future of Wikidata Events" report, now available on Wikimedia Commons. This report provides valuable insights into the current state and future possibilities of Wikidata events.

Context and Purpose
Over the past several months, we conducted an in-depth review of Wikidata events, gathering feedback from community members, event organizers, and stakeholders. Our goal was to understand the strengths and challenges of these events and explore how they can better serve the Wikidata community moving forward.

This report is the culmination of that research. It highlights key findings, offers a comprehensive analysis of past events, and outlines potential directions for the future. While specific changes are still being determined, this report will serve as a foundation for future discussions and decisions.

Highlights of the Report

  • Objective: Investigates the range of possibilities and alternatives to the current formats, with emphasis on inclusivity, environmental sustainability, accessibility, and accommodating the varied requirements of different communities worldwide.
  • Community Feedback: Reflects a wide range of opinions and experiences from community members worldwide, ensuring a balanced and inclusive overview.
  • Strategic Opportunities: Identifies key opportunities for enhancing community support, engagement, and retention through innovative event formats.

What’s Next for Wikidata Events?

  • Adapting to Community Needs: We are committed to evolving our event formats to better meet the needs of our diverse community, including exploring both online and onsite models that foster deeper connections while maintaining broad accessibility.
  • Upcoming Changes: While we are excited about the potential changes highlighted in the report, specific changes are still being finalized. Final recommendations and any resulting changes will be communicated later this year.
  • Continuous Improvement: We will continue to seek feedback and work collaboratively with the community to ensure our events remain inclusive and impactful.

Your Feedback Matters
We encourage you to review the report and share your thoughts. Your feedback will play a crucial role in shaping the future of Wikidata events. Please don't hesitate to reach out with questions, discuss with each other, or provide general feedback regarding the report at Wikidata talk:Events#"The Future of Wikidata Events" Report Now Available on Wikimedia Commons.

We believe this report is a significant step towards creating a more inclusive and supportive environment for all members of the Wikidata community. We look forward to working with you to shape the future of our events together.

Cheers! -Mohammed Abdulai (WMDE) (talk) 12:29, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikidata weekly summary #641

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Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.
This is the Wikidata summary of the week before 2024-08-26. Please help Translate.

Discussions

  • Open request for adminship:
    • Gwanki - RfP scheduled to end after 26 August 2024 05:54 (UTC)
    • Putnik 2 - RfP scheduled to end after 27 August 2024 23:17 (UTC)
  • Closed request for adminship: Both requests successful, welcome new admins: Mohammed Qays and Wüstenspringmaus!
  • New requests for permissions/Bot: Leaderbot - Task/s: reminds users when their rights are to expire (see Phab:T370842)
  • Closed request for permissions/Bot: Bot5958 1b - RfP successful!
  • New request for comments:

Events

Press, articles, blog posts, videos

Tool of the week

Other Noteworthy Stuff

  • New AI Project Manager to join Wikimedia Deutschland: We’re pleased to announce that a new AI project manager will be joining our team next week. Lydia and Jonathan (Director of Engineering) have been prototyping in this area and recently presented their work at the AI_dev summit (YouTube link). Our goal is to bring knowledge graphs and generative AI closer together, making AI more equitable, truthful, participatory, and open. More updates to come soon!

Newest properties and property proposals to review

You can comment on all open property proposals!

Did you know?

Development

  • Not much happened this week. Many of the developers are still on vacation, and some are out sick.

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

Weekly Tasks

Wiping 賀錦麗 off the aliases in Kamala Harris (Q10853588)

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Is there someone who could and would be willing to wipe 賀錦麗 off the nearly 100 remaining aliases it does not belong on on Kamala Harris (Q10853588)? Thanks. - Yupik (talk) 06:52, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why did nobody revert the bot that added these in a single edit? Would have been much easier. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 08:34, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No idea, but it wouldn't let me anymore since other people had been deleting them off individually. - Yupik (talk) 10:24, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This may be part of the problem: Q10853588#P742 RVA2869 (talk) 08:43, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for deleting them! - Yupik (talk) 10:25, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SPARQL to connect any two Qs

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Inspired by six degrees of separation (Q2855754), I am just wondering if there is a general SPARQL statement to connect any two entities. The key part is wildcard for Ps. Thanks

Think of Wikidata as directed graph as it is, Qs are nodes and Ps (as main properties and qualifiers) are edges. There are 2 versions :

(a) treat it as directed graph, with example : −1 (Q310395) instance of (P31) integer (Q12503) studied in (P2579) number theory (Q12479) and

(b) as Undirected graph , like between integer (Q12503) and real number (Q12916) via type of number (Q47460393)

Thanks. JuguangXiao (talk) 07:27, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can use RDF GAS API to query the number of steps between two items using some properties (directed or undirected), for example. However (1) RDF GAS API is a Blazegraph extension, and since WDQS will move out of Blazegraph (as it is abandonware), such feature will discontinue in some point; (2) It is not scalable for all of Wikidata items - the query example use child (P40) as undirected graph, and child (P40) is used in a little fewer than one million items, where the entire Wikidata has more than 100 million items; even with such number of items, the query often fails or timeouts so you need to try it multiple times before getting a result.--GZWDer (talk) 12:17, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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