Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor (2nd nomination): Difference between revisions
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*:Unfortunately, none of those sources are independent. Falk is the chairman of the Euro-Med HRM, the ReliefWeb article is a republication of a Euro-Med HRM press release, and the Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency is a major donor to the Euro-Med HRM (about a million USD per year) and created the report in that context. |
*:Unfortunately, none of those sources are independent. Falk is the chairman of the Euro-Med HRM, the ReliefWeb article is a republication of a Euro-Med HRM press release, and the Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency is a major donor to the Euro-Med HRM (about a million USD per year) and created the report in that context. |
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*:Further, the second two don't constitute [[WP:SIGCOV]]; they both fail [[WP:NCORP]]s requirement that {{tq|sources that describe only a specific topic related to an organization should not be regarded as providing significant coverage of that organization.}} [[User:BilledMammal|BilledMammal]] ([[User talk:BilledMammal|talk]]) 16:36, 21 January 2024 (UTC) |
*:Further, the second two don't constitute [[WP:SIGCOV]]; they both fail [[WP:NCORP]]s requirement that {{tq|sources that describe only a specific topic related to an organization should not be regarded as providing significant coverage of that organization.}} [[User:BilledMammal|BilledMammal]] ([[User talk:BilledMammal|talk]]) 16:36, 21 January 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Oh dear how bad. I suppose then you'd also find NGO Monitor's article [https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/euro-med-human-rights-monitor/] about it is trivial or unreliable? [[User:NadVolum|NadVolum]] ([[User talk:NadVolum|talk]]) 18:23, 21 January 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' GNG met and situation improved relative to previous nomination.[[User:Selfstudier|Selfstudier]] ([[User talk:Selfstudier|talk]]) 17:21, 21 January 2024 (UTC) |
*'''Keep''' GNG met and situation improved relative to previous nomination.[[User:Selfstudier|Selfstudier]] ([[User talk:Selfstudier|talk]]) 17:21, 21 January 2024 (UTC) |
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- Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NCORP; no coverage which is independent, reliable, and significant,
While there is a small amount of independent coverage of some of the initiatives it has launched and the reports it has published, this is not sufficient to establish notability per both WP:INHERITORG and WP:NCORP#Significant coverage of the company itself; Sources that describe only a specific topic related to an organization should not be regarded as providing significant coverage of that organization.
Note that this article was previously deleted under a different name at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Euro- Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor; it was then recreated by a Euro-Med HRM employee under a number of names (The Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor, Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor, etc) before finally "sticking" under the current name. The current article has also been edited by at least nine different Euro-Med HRM employees, mostly WP:UPEs.
Source assessment table:
| ||||
Source | Independent? | Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG? |
---|---|---|---|---|
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20181211-euro-med-hrm-saudi-arabia-has-forcibly-disappeared-3-libyans/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.marsad.ly/en/2021/05/19/euro-med-hrm-calls-for-disclosure-of-maps-for-mine-sites-in-libya/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.euromedmonitor.org/en/About | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://uia.org/s/or/en/1122281718 | ? Unclear where these profiles come from; whether they are from the organization | ✘ No | ||
https://www.ohchr.org/en/special-procedures/sr-palestine | ✘ No | |||
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/report-special-rapporteur-situation-human-rights-palestinian-8 | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://english.alaraby.co.uk/news/israels-icc-rebuttal-admission-war-crimes-rights-group | ✘ No | |||
https://mondoweiss.net/2018/07/family-visits-imprisoned/ | ~ | ✘ No | ||
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/2890/Euro-Med-announces-changes-in-its-administrative-and-executive-structure | ? | ? | ✘ No | |
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israel-targets-rights-defenders-un-council-hears/1992437 | ✘ No | |||
https://ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/author/ramy-abdu/ | ? | ? | ✘ No | |
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/author/ramy-abdu/ | ? | ? | ✘ No | |
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/mec/2019/08/27/as-mena-states-grow-increasingly-repressive-businesses-should-lead-reform/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/staff | ? | ? | ✘ No | |
https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/101164 | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://imemc.org/article/euro-med-monitor-report-suffocation-and-isolation-15-years-of-israeli-blockade-on-gaza/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://web.archive.org/web/20200407104742/https://www.soc.ucsb.edu/faculty/lisa-hajjar | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://poli.ucalgary.ca/profiles/tareq-ismael | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/michael-smith-uae-prison-mps-b1813663.html | ✘ No | |||
https://exeter.academia.edu/TanyaNewburySmith | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/authors/3/Maha-Hussaini | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/author/maha-hussaini/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/maha-hussaini-martin-adler-prize-win-rory-peck-trust | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.una-oic.org/page/public/news_details.aspx?id=328294&NL=True | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.un.org/press/en/2021/ngo914.doc.htm | ✘ No | |||
https://press.un.org/en/2021/ngo923.doc.htm | ✘ No | |||
https://press.un.org/en/2021/ngo927.doc.htm | ✘ No | |||
https://press.un.org/en/2022/ngo942.doc.htm | ✘ No | |||
https://press.un.org/en/2023/ngo950.doc.htm | ✘ No | |||
https://press.un.org/en/2023/ngo953.doc.htm | ✘ No | |||
https://press.un.org/en/2023/ngo959.doc.htm | ✘ No | |||
https://press.un.org/en/2022/ngo933.doc.htm | ✘ No | |||
https://kvinnatillkvinna.org/about-us/where-we-work/mena/palestine/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2017/08/palestine-gaza-civil-society-women-leadership-incubator.html | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.launchgood.com/campaign/from_denial_to_defense_youth_for_rights#!/ | ✘ No | |||
http://www.ju.edu.jo/Lists/NewsLetter/Disp_f.aspx?ID=1175&Issue=August%202016&order=8 | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://thepoliticain.co.uk/middle-east/201/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.bnreport.com/en/wikirights-2/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://law.ju.edu.jo/Lists/AcademicNews/Test.aspx?ID=78&ContentTypeId=0x0100FB3DD40023178C409CDBAC99DB39D980 | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://web.archive.org/web/20211003105920/https://europebriefnews.com/2017/10/25/watering-the-seeds/ | Note that there is a current organization using the name Europe Brief News that does appear reliable, but they are not the same entity - the current one was founded in 2020. |
? It could arguably contain WP:SIGCOV, but I'm not convinced; it uses a lot of words but says very little about Euro-Med HRM, and WP:NCORP requires that the coverage is sufficient to "makes it possible to write more than a very brief, incomplete stub about the organization". However, this is a lesser issue than the reliability of the source. | ✘ No | |
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/3190 | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/11/career-assassination-dws-scapegoating-of-arab-employees | ✘ No | |||
https://www.nonviolenceinternational.net/many_faces_wann | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.middleeasteye.net/features/deported-israels-war-against-palestine-solidarity-activists | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/128695 | ? | ✘ No | ||
We Are Not Numbers: Junge Stimmen aus Gaza | ? | ? | ✘ No | |
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/07/struggles-triumphs-palestinian/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://web.archive.org/web/20160824141709/http://www.daysofpalestine.com/news/israel-bans-right-activist-entering-gaza/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.972mag.com/gaza-fence-stories-hebrew/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/5/german-court-rules-palestinian-ex-dw-journalist-sacking-unlawful | ✘ No | |||
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/5039/Euro-Med-Monitor%27s-We-Are-Not-Numbers-project-celebrates-graduation-of-new-batch-of-writers | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/5562/Euro-Med-Monitor%E2%80%99s-project-We-Are-Not-Numbers-launches-17th-cohort-of-writers | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://news.trust.org/item/20210902130009-tk186/ | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/they-told-us-they-hate-africans-hundreds-detained-deported-abu-dhabi-2021-09-02/ | ✘ No | |||
https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/tori-58446660 | ✘ No | |||
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1437749/saudi-arabia-human-rights-abuse-minister-disappeared | ~ Most of the coverage related to Euro-Med HRM consists of quotes | ✘ No | ||
https://reliefweb.int/report/turkey/risks-refugees-disabilities-face-turkey-how-mitigate-risks-and-challenges-shape-apt | ? | ✘ No | ||
https://europebriefnews.com/2017/12/09/euro-med-monitor/ | ? See earlier discussion of Europe Brief New's reliability | ✘ No | ||
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/20/world/middleeast/fleeing-gaza-only-to-face-treachery-and-disaster-at-sea-.html | ✘ No | |||
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1437749/saudi-arabia-human-rights-abuse-minister-disappeared | ✘ No | |||
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jordan-arrests-hundreds-of-teachers-after-violent-clashes-zzg7ppsvh | ✘ No | |||
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-war-survivor-commemorates-victims-paintings-2022-05-26/ | ✘ No | |||
https://palestine.unwomen.org/en/stories/feature-story/2022/05/zainab-al-qolaq-a-survivor-of-an-israeli-airstrike-on-gaza-in-may-2021-tells-her-story | ? | ? | ✘ No | |
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}. |
BilledMammal (talk) 05:17, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nominator. JM (talk) 05:22, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Switzerland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 06:44, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 06:44, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 06:45, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. The large number of sources obviously indicates notability even if some of them don't count. BilledMammal provides no evidence of the claim of 9 paid editors, and anyway a quick look at the history shows a large number of edits by experienced editors in good standing. Mentions that are not just in passing are frequently used as indicating notability: when an independent source discusses something done by the organization or cites and analyses (even in disagreement) something published by the organization, that counts. Zerotalk 07:27, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Can you specify which sources are independent, reliable, and contain significant coverage of the organisation?
- Regarding the UPE’s, conclusive evidence has been provided privately; I can’t provide it publicly as it would violate WP:OUTING. BilledMammal (talk) 07:32, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Is there a Wikipedia policy about evidence about paid authorship that cannot be provided publicly as being inadmissible in discussions about page deletion? I'm not sure, I'm just asking. Wickster12345 (talk) 07:50, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- If we cannot see the evidence how can we determine whether it holds up? Wickster12345 (talk) 07:53, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- I have edited the article as well, I am not paid. Can we be pointed to the most recent edit by a COI editor? Selfstudier (talk) 13:52, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Late-2022; they come in waves every year or two editing a large number of articles, including this one, to publicize Euro-Med HRM's activities. There's an ongoing discussion about COI tags and editing on the article's talk page; happy to take this there if you want to discuss further, to avoid getting too deep into a tangential topic. BilledMammal (talk) 14:16, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- I have edited the article as well, I am not paid. Can we be pointed to the most recent edit by a COI editor? Selfstudier (talk) 13:52, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- If we cannot see the evidence how can we determine whether it holds up? Wickster12345 (talk) 07:53, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Is there a Wikipedia policy about evidence about paid authorship that cannot be provided publicly as being inadmissible in discussions about page deletion? I'm not sure, I'm just asking. Wickster12345 (talk) 07:50, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. I disagree that there is sufficient consensus on the basis of established Wikipedia policy that a majority of the cited sources are unreliable in determining notability. Some of the sources listed are, in my opinion, not biased, some are able to establish notability, some are clearly independent of the subject matter, even if not all the sources are all of these three things. Wickster12345 (talk) 07:52, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete insofar as the claims made by @BilledMammal are factually accurate. The re-creation after an AfD in that way is also very concerning. FortunateSons (talk) 10:32, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Actually the 2015 deletion was on the basis of only 3 delete votes and the 2021 AfD was closed as no consensus. So the story is more complex than that. Zerotalk 11:09, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- I read those, I am referring to the claims the sources (and secondarily on the paid editors) which appear accurate. I performed a cursory search myself and have not found other (better) sources (except the article by NGO Monitor, whose reliability is disputed per the RS Noticeboard). FortunateSons (talk) 12:17, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Actually the 2015 deletion was on the basis of only 3 delete votes and the 2021 AfD was closed as no consensus. So the story is more complex than that. Zerotalk 11:09, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: This is a very prominent human rights monitor that is abundantly covered well in excess of the requirements of WP:GNG. There are ample references to it in academic literature, as a casual WP:BEFORE search would have shown - and one has to question if one was in fact performed. In this paper published in The Lancet, the top pedigree medical journal, it is one of two esteemed sources referenced for basic on-the-ground information-gathering alongside UNRWA. In at least two recent instances: [1][2], UNRWA published press releases about Euro-Med's recent fact-finding activities, so this monitor notably operates in an ongoing capacity in UN circles. These reports are needless to say routinely picked up by RS. The evidence for notability is all over the internet, and overwhelming. This nomination is incomprehensible and the aspersions about paid-editing largely unsupported. I'm pretty sure I've edited this page in the last 12 months, and I certainly wasn't paid. The nominator has assessed the sources on the page, but could they clarify if they performed a proper WP:BEFORE or not? I suspect not, and the wise thing to do here would be to withdraw the nomination before it wastes any more community time. Iskandar323 (talk) 12:01, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I conducted a WP:BEFORE. Looking through your links, I don't see any that are independent, reliable, and significant coverage - and I don't believe you are asserting that they are. Perhaps you - or any of the other editors who support keeping the article - can provide WP:THREE sources they believe do meet that criteria so we can assess the opposition to this nomination on the basis of the evidence?
- A small correction to your comment; UNRWA doesn't publish press releases about Euro-Med's recent fact-finding activities, they republish Euro-Med's press releases. BilledMammal (talk) 14:04, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- 1) Watchdog Submits Evidence of Israeli Executions of Gaza Civilians to UN, ICC in Common Dreams Selfstudier (talk) 14:31, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- 2) Rights at Stake and the COVID-19 Pandemic: Two Special Issues of the Journal of Human Rights Scholarly Citation. Selfstudier (talk) 14:37, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- 3) National and International Civilian Protection Strategies in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict Scholarly Citation. Seems there are many more citations in books, so perhaps the "before" was less than comprehensive. Selfstudier (talk) 14:42, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- 1) That's coverage of a report by Euro-Med HRM but I'm not seeing any coverage of the organization itself - if I have missed something, please quote it.
- Per WP:NCORP, such coverage is not sufficient to establish notability of the organization;
Sources that describe only a specific topic related to an organization should not be regarded as providing significant coverage of that organization.
As an aside, while Common Dreams is not at RSP, discussions at RSN lean towards it being unreliable. - 2) Coverage is
The Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor, a Geneva-based Human Rights NGO, reported that the law legitimized censorship and restricted freedom of expression (Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor 2020).
Not even SIGCOV of their report, let alone SIGCOV of the organization. - 3) Coverage is
PA Security also commonly targets opposition. The Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor documented 1,274 arbitrary detentions in the West Bank in 2015 and 1,089 summonses by Palestinian Security Services. The human rights violations targeted mostly individuals affiliated with Hamas or who opposed PA policies, including about 35 journalists and human rights activists, 476 university students, and 67 teachers/professors (Euro-Med 2016).
Again, not even SIGCOV of their report, let alone SIGCOV of the organization. BilledMammal (talk) 14:48, 21 January 2024 (UTC)- 4) Israel 'stealing organs' from bodies in Gaza, alleges human rights group Euronews. That's 4, I can keep them coming if you like, although only 3 were asked for.Selfstudier (talk) 15:26, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- 5) Allegations of Organ Theft by Israel Add Insult to Injury in Gaza Politics Today Selfstudier (talk) 15:37, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- #4 and #5 are the same as #1; maybe containing SIGCOV of a report from Euro-Med HRM, but not SIGCOV of the organization itself. If I have missed such coverage, please quote it; otherwise, can you please provide WP:THREE sources that comply with the requirements of WP:NCORP? BilledMammal (talk) 15:42, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- 1) https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/euro-mediterranean-human-rights-monitor
- 2) https://www.lobbyfacts.eu/datacard/euro-med-human-rights-monitor?rid=326186932081-66&sid=142920
- 3) https://uia.org/s/or/en/1122281718
- That didn't take long, GNG established, methinks, this is also more than we had the last time this was nominated. Selfstudier (talk) 17:19, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- WP:CRUNCHBASE; that source is deprecated
- Lobbyfacts collates and mirrors a number of other sites, primarily the EU Transparency Register (which is populated by submissions from the organization), but also Euro-Med HRM's website and a few others. It contains significant coverage of the organization, but does not contain coverage that is both independent and significant.
- One sentence of coverage;
Advocate for the human rights of all persons across Europe and the MENA region, particularly those who live under occupation, in the throes of war or political unrest and/or have been displaced due to persecution or armed conflict.
Further, they normally providea profile in the words of the organization itself
. The coverage is neither significant nor independent.
- Unfortunately, none of these can count towards notability; they are all indisputably unsuitable. Do you have any that are suitable? BilledMammal (talk) 17:34, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Meets GNG, prove otherwise. Selfstudier (talk) 17:47, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- #4 and #5 are the same as #1; maybe containing SIGCOV of a report from Euro-Med HRM, but not SIGCOV of the organization itself. If I have missed such coverage, please quote it; otherwise, can you please provide WP:THREE sources that comply with the requirements of WP:NCORP? BilledMammal (talk) 15:42, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I see things that have changed for the better since the last nomination by nom a couple years ago but I can't see what is worse? This just seems like a pointy nomination following the conversation at RSN Selfstudier (talk) 13:30, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep I noticed the main thing missing in that list of articles mentioning Euro-Med was anything about it. Well I just put in a Google of 'Euro-mediterranean monitor review' and got a number if whoever started off this AfD wants a pointer on how to find something like that. Evaluation might also be a good word but about is liable to just lead back to an organisation. I have looked at it and the article about it and I believe it is definitely notable enough to be in Wikipedia. Here are the links for the first few things I got from the search [3] by Richard A. Falk, [4] by Reliefweb, [5] by Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency. NadVolum (talk) 16:19, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, none of those sources are independent. Falk is the chairman of the Euro-Med HRM, the ReliefWeb article is a republication of a Euro-Med HRM press release, and the Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency is a major donor to the Euro-Med HRM (about a million USD per year) and created the report in that context.
- Further, the second two don't constitute WP:SIGCOV; they both fail WP:NCORPs requirement that
sources that describe only a specific topic related to an organization should not be regarded as providing significant coverage of that organization.
BilledMammal (talk) 16:36, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Oh dear how bad. I suppose then you'd also find NGO Monitor's article [6] about it is trivial or unreliable? NadVolum (talk) 18:23, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep GNG met and situation improved relative to previous nomination.Selfstudier (talk) 17:21, 21 January 2024 (UTC)