Talk:21 Guns (song): Difference between revisions

ELO Rip-off

This article fails to examine the indie-nature of this band and how they 'adapt' music such as ELO's Telephone Line in such a 'discreet' manner. I would like to be enlightened on this subject matter in addition to the band's thoughts on the aforementioned 'Full House' theme.--EchoRevamped (talk) 20:44, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

The way I see it, it goes "Heart of Gold" by Neil Young, then hits the chorus of "Telephone Line" by ELO, and switches back and forth a few times throughout, with an added, and probably borrowed, guitar part towards the end. This pretty much sums up "21 Guns." I'm still not sure about the Full House theme, but I'm sure they borrowed something from that as well.--EchoRevamped (talk) 20:44, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Huh? I always thought it was based on the chord progressions from Ashokan Farewell. It sounds like a Civil War-inspired song, anyway, which would explain why. At least to me it does. Stonemason89 (talk) 18:36, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Im wondering if it sounds like some protest song of the late 70s from South America. It might have been intentional. Or maybe its just me.88.89.69.179 (talk) 00:27, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Full House

No mention of the Full House theme song, whether it was intentional or not? --Yurimxpxman (talk) 12:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

To answer your question, no, whether it has a similarity to the Full House theme song, it is not important enough to mention in the article, unless it was intentional. ~ Zzguitar14

Heart of Gold

I don't see a Full House Connection, But your deaf if you don't think this song reminds you of "Heart of Gold" by Neil Young. Its funny how he isn't listed on this Albums source for inspiration. 99.247.166.55 (talk) 05:31, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not anyone near enough to even note. I can tell the differences. And there's plenty. Different lyrics, different tune, different key, different instruments, etc. --Zzguitar14 (talk) 18:52, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I beg to differ, this has about as many similarities as "Under Pressure" and "Ice Ice Baby." I think it should be included in the article, along with a list of 'inspired' songs 21 Guns borrows from.--EchoRevamped (talk) 20:40, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

A song can't be inspired from another song unless the artist says so. I want to hear it from Billie Joe himself before I accept that it was inspired by Neil Young. --Zzguitar14 (talk) 00:54, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

You misinterpret my use of the word 'inspire'... At any rate, a similarities or style section should be added, if not a "What they Ripped Off" section.--EchoRevamped (talk) 19:37, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Reliable Sources; find them. At the moment this is just Original Research. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 04:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

True, but I could've sworn English class taught "you don't need a citation if it's a known fact", and this is a pretty obvious comparison between songs even if the notes are in a different key. As invalid as I may be with that point, how are we ever supposed to find 'Reliable' sources on the analysis of the similarities in sections of Green Day's "21 Guns". We probably won't see that posted in a scientific journal or scholarly paper for quite some time... Nor will the band release a statement regarding ;inspirations', unless a lawsuit is brought up...--EchoRevamped (talk) 06:19, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you never read or heard an interview done by a band? They will usually go into some kind of detail about where things came from, a book, a favourite album, the 'inspiration' that you are speaking of. As Zz said, we can't just assume that's where it came from. And you've never read a review or article stating anything about the songs and similarities to previous artists? Take this review about JET for example. Also, Wikipedia's policies are pretty consistent in saying information that is verifiable trumps over what is necessarily 'true/fact'. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 12:05, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Meaning

I disagree that this is simply an anti-war song, although it sounded like that the FIRST time I heard it. After a few more good listens, I think this song is more directly addressing post-traumatic stress disorder. Listen to or read the lyrics with this in mind, and you'll see what I mean. Stiche1775 (talk) 05:16, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I think the article needs to be changed because it refers to release dates in future tense even though they've already passed. 24.229.114.71 (talk) 21:43, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

No, don't worry about it, it's always going to say "Released:" as if it was past tense. I'm pretty sure that every future single is like that. I even see some that are like "Released: TBA 2009" or something. So don't worry about it.

[edit] OH okay, now i get what you mean. No, I think its' already been fixed. --Zzguitar14 (talk) 17:00, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Release date

What is the release date of the CD single? Is it June 21 or July 14? Someone needs to give reference for one of them, too. --Zzguitar14 (talk) 06:44, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah this is quite confusing. 21st Century Breakdown says June 21, 2009, this page says 25 May for download and July 14 for CD single, but all the sites I'm seeing are saying July 13 for download (1). Can't find anything concrete. I think May 25 is the radio airplay date, not the digital download date (perhaps someone thought being able to download it off the album on iTunes meant it was a single?) k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 07:44, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Adding a section that notes its similarities to other songs?

I suggest adding a section that tells the reader the similarities the song has to other songs, such as the Full House theme (the solo), and whatever else people want to add....? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.32.229.110 (talk) 16:03, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't know. I'd say we wait and see if someone else does it instead haha. --Zzguitar14 (talk) 15:25, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

If it is someone's opinion, then it doesn't go in. If it is someone's opinion that has been published in a reliable third party independent source then it can be included provided sufficient context exists. As this just seems to be unpublished opinion, no, do not add anything. Nouse4aname (talk) 15:46, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

When something has a similarity to something, it should be noted, and it can be proven, even though some people would disagree, and some would agree, but I can say that it's enough for it to be considered. I've seen so many people post about how it sounds like different songs, so if a large majority of people think so, shouldn't it be worked in there? --Zzguitar14 (talk) 04:40, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Next single?

Where's the source that East jesus Nowhere is the next single off of 21st Century Breakdown? --Zzguitar14 (talk) 22:32, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

There isn't one, it should be removed. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 04:42, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, yeah, that makes sense. But it would be awesome if East Jesus Nowhere was a single. What about you? What single would you like to be next? You are a GD fan right? --Zzguitar14 (talk) 15:23, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, have my tickets for when they come to my part of town. :) I rather like Before the Lobotomy, or possibly Murder City, cause that's got a killer intro. Not really too bothered with it though, not like there's any major single material in there. We should probaby be reminded, this is not the place for forum chat. Talk page me if you like. :) k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 04:57, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay. Yeah, lol, "What Wikipedia is NOT". Ha. Yeah. Hm. Ok then. --Zzguitar14 (talk) 14:28, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, hey, what's the deal here?

Someone keeps deleting things I put in this article. For example, I put that extra information in the chart positions area about the pop 100 being discontinued because i think people would be wondering why it was #37 on the Hot 100 and #98 on the Pop 100? Isn't that verifiable information? And not original research? I'm only saying.

And also about me adding the Song meaning section. And someone deleting that, too. I believe that it should be noted that it is an anti-war song. I really do. And sure I don't have any verifiable information for that but any Green Day fan knows its true. --Zzguitar14 (talk) 14:32, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Read WP:V. Unless you can prove it, you can't add it. See WP:RS for what constitutes a reliable source. Nouse4aname (talk) 14:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I can prove that it's not progressing on the Pop 100. But people would put the "citation not in this link" or whatever it says. And that's because you can't look for yourself, but you know it's true. If you look on Wikipedia's article "Pop 100" you would realise that they are discontinued. Isn't that enough right there? --Zzguitar14 (talk) 14:55, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I was referring to the song meaning section. As for the removal of the chart details I suggest the ask the editor who removed that information. There is a guideline on which charts to included at WP:CHARTS, which I am not familiar with, but I expect the removal has something to do with that... Nouse4aname (talk) 15:00, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, okay, thanks then. Yeah, but the Pop 100 is allowed still, I think, but since it's discontinued I think they should be taking it down on article pages and discography pages and stuff. --Zzguitar14 (talk) 15:02, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

There's no reason to take it down. Sure, it was discontinued, but it was still the most comprehensive pop chart in the US. Now it has been replaced the Top 40 Mainstream chart, which is only radio airplay. So, we're kind of at a loss of what to do! :p Billboard's Pop 100 discontinuation is mentioned in here, so you can use that as a source. Be careful not to add in any original research - don't go implying that it would have gone up the charts further, just that it could have. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 03:44, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you should add it, because i'm not sure i know what i'm doing, hah. So im going to leave that up to you.... --Zzguitar14 (talk) 01:42, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Anti war song? It could also be a request for laws on arms controll, and that it would not be easy to evade it. If this is an anti-war song, bGl Bogedoff song "tell me why...." must be seen as a such request.--83.108.28.91 (talk) 21:47, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

the 21 guns band

I know I should've put in the 21 Guns discussion for the band, but no one one read it, because no one knows who that is, so I'm posting it here.

I suggest making 21 Guns (song) the redirect for the key words "21 Guns" when typed in the search box, because this song is much more notable than the band 21 Guns is.

That would mean that everyone who searched that would, to get to this article, have to go through the article "21 Guns" which is about the band. My suggestion would be to either change the redirect of the "21 Guns" search, or changing the name of this article. --Zzguitar14 (talk) 20:41, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Agreed! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.13.157 (talk) 02:50, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Disagree typing in 21 guns brings the selection of all articles starting with 21 guns including the song. As far as notible, I agree at this time it maybe be more notible than the band; however, this is an encyclopedia and notibility changes. Believe changing the title of the band to 21 guns (band) whould solve all issue. Especially if something in the future comes out named 21 guns and becomes an article. Thanks B.s.n. (R.N.) 04:41, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Question about the Digital sales

This song has charted on the digital sales in the US. I'm too lazy to know or check the link tha would lead me to figuring out of you're allowed to put up digital sales charting numbers, so are you allowed to? Because if you can't, I don't see why not. --Zzguitar14 (talk) 18:20, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

"21st Century Breakdown" as new single?

No sources say that it will be a single, the album article doesn't credit it as a single, the website has no mention of it, so i think someone should take it off —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.13.157 (talk) 15:16, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Well whaddya know it is the next single. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.13.157 (talk) 02:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Certifications

On the 1st of September, 21 guns has reached the gold status. I think it should be mentioned.

Green Day rip off Weezer

Does anyone else notice that the chorus with the guitars sound like Say It Ain't So by Weezer? Can anyone explain? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.150.159 (talk) 22:53, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

GD and Weezer are huge fans of each other; they've likely borrowed influences from each other during the course of their careers. Stonemason89 (talk) 17:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

WHAT?!!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r00ikilDxW4&a=4GIGcgcpe1g&playnext_from=ML

This version here is different. It has Josh Boswell holding a bullet and dropping it in the beginning,and may have other differences as well.

Who the hell said it was after robbing a bank? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.89.18.134 (talk) 07:55, April 25, 2010

The video does open up with the male lead holding a hollow-tipped bullet, but the article doesn't state that the video shows the couple robbing a bank, it states the couple is "taking refuge in a white room after robbing a bank". You can see the explanation here - Making of the 21 Guns Video - The male lead states this at around the 2:07 mark. DD2K (talk) 14:50, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Covers

Okay, people have disputed at least twice in the past couple days as to whether or not Adam Lambert did, in fact, cover the song in response to Westboro Baptist Church protesters...Can someone please get a definitive source to confirm or deny whether he did or not? There's no need for an edit war about this. Glambert4688 (talk) 06:20, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

21 Guns Genre

I would like to ask someone to specify EXACTLY WHAT GENRE this song is.

Nearly every time I go onto the song, it's something different. For the most part, I've seen it labeled "Alternative Rock" but I've seen some other genres accompanying that, such as "Rock" (TOTALLY INACCURATE), "Pop Rock" (sounds accurate to me; the acoustic guitars and soft feel of it justify this), "Hard Rock" (Inaccurate again), and "Post Grunge" (again inaccurate), just to name a few.

So exactly what genre would most of you post this under? I changed it to "Pop Rock" because I listened to the song, and I've seen that genre associated with the song a few times. But I'm really not sure, and I hate being inaccurate about this kind of stuff.

Thanks!

Gothica36 (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)