Talk:Afghanistan: Difference between revisions

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zach4596 (article contribs). This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bwiffen1234 (article contribs).

Semi-protected edit request on 16 January 2021

Malayatriggerflu110 (talk) 20:44, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Afghanistan is in Central Asia more than south Asia, we are not Desis and we do not claim to be one!

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Seagull123 Φ 22:16, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

No. Pedro Lucas Silva (talk) 16:19, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect Pashtun Percentage

The ethnic percentages given do not add up to 100% which is probably due to Taliban/Pashtun propaganda. The article Demographics of Afghanistan gives more accurate data, including polling which was undertaken during the post Taliban period. I suggest an edit to change the Pashtun percentage to 48% or 37% depending on which result is considered more accurate

Demonym

There is a "note" attached to demonym which says that Afghani and Afghanistani are incorrect, however the references for these directly contradict that assertion.

I think either the article needs to be changed to reflect these other demonyms as "also exist" or better references are needed.

Semi-protected edit request on 14 April 2021

I want to do a small change, because there is a spelling mistake. Jackfruit92817 (talk) 11:00, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

It is written as "Muhammadun", But it is actually "Muhammadur". Jackfruit92817 (talk) 11:02, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:33, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2021

Please correct the language percentages its written 77 % Dari and 44% Pashto. While I’m in Afghanistan I can see everyone talks with Pashto language not Dari. As per my research I can say 67% Pashto and 46% Dari. Dari is only spoken in Kabul and some north zone while Pashto is spoken all over Afghanistan. 103.28.132.211 (talk) 12:31, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:36, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Provide reliable sources such as CIA World Factbook or other world websites. Pedro Lucas Silva (talk) 02:58, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

“the post-period” ?

A few lines before the start of the Democratic Republic regime and Soviet war subsection of the History section, there is this phrase: “the post-period.” Post what? Boscaswell talk 23:03, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, I changed to "post-war period". --Cerebellum (talk) 09:32, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2021

Curious if this would be relevant in the introduction as it is an interesting fact: The country with the highest percentage of Muslims is Afghanistan with 99.7%. This is my source: "The World Factbook". Cia.gov. Retrieved 14 February 2015. 49.193.55.9 (talk) 05:24, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

That is definitely interesting, and thank you for providing a source. The source does say that the percentage is 99.7%, but it does not say that that is the highest in the world - do you have a source for that claim? --Cerebellum (talk) 09:34, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2021

66.130.210.19 (talk) 05:25, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Afghanistan is in Central Asia

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Melmann 09:45, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Afghanistan is in South Asia. Sources: Google Pedro Lucas Silva (talk) 03:06, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Population

Is it 32 or 39 million? Many sources say its 39 nowadays... --Mats33 (talk) 08:58, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Cite error

In the Notes section there is a list defined note named "fn1". This is no longer in use and needs to either be commented out or deleted, as it currently causing a cite error. Thanks 92.5.2.97 (talk) 17:10, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Load lording

This page loads like a tired sloth, what gives?

Also, I did what the dude above me wanted. Horsesizedduck (talk) 17:16, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 July 2021

central asia Gskov (talk) 02:44, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.Interesting Geek (talk) 04:08, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Ongoing political changes in Afghanistan

Currently the Taliban are looking more and more likely to take control of the country. If so, will we be changing this page to reflect these changes when they occur or will we wait for UN recognition, if that ever happens. Thanks. Kappasi (talk) 04:08, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I think we should change the page to reflect the changes as they occur- hypothetically even if the Taliban government isn't recognized they still would de facto be the government of Afghanistan and if the reliable sources are there we should update the page. Danre98^{(talk^contribs)} 15:26, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Province size

This sentence sounds a bit misleading: "Each province is the size of a U.S. county". The average area of a US county is 2,910 km2, while the average area of an Afghan province is 19,183 km2 (over six and a half times the area). Population wise the ratio is about 9:1 (nearly a million inhabitants per province versus just over 100k per county on average).143.176.94.161 (talk) 21:12, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Y Sentence removed, I agree relating provinces to US counties is inappropriate. Danre98^{(talk^contribs)} 21:19, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

How long the lead should be?

It's tagged as too long, but look at the size of the page. MOS:LEAD is okay with proportionate leads like this one. Nowearskirts (talk) 06:21, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

The lead is a bit too long, but more significantly is disproportionately dedicated to summarising the History section, with three paragraphs dedicated to one of eight article sections. Cut that down to a more appropriate paragraph, and there is even room for a bit more expansion. CMD (talk) 07:21, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Languages Graph

The graph showing the percent of speakers of the various languages of Afghanistan (based off the CIA factbook source, numbered as 7 currently) is incorrect. It currently shows 78% of Afghans speaking Pashto and 50% speaking Dari Persian, whereas the quoted source shows the opposite.

So….will there be a separate page for “Islamic Republic of Afghanistan” to represent this government in past tense, OR will this page be renamed that and the “Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan” page is renamed to “Afghanistan” and merged with info from this one and the Taliban page since it’s the same government as the 90s one.

Title. Which order are we doing this in?

Also, just for the record, I say we treat the 1996-2001 Islamic Emirate as the same government as the one that’s about to be restored to power, and just show they were out of power from 2002-2021. Like in that part of the info bar it’s “1996-2001, 2021-present”, and we treat it as one continuous entity that was outed from power only to take it back once the civil war ended.

• I think we need to split this page. One which will be called “Islamic Republic of Afghanistan” which will be a historic article covering the history of the country from 2001 to 2021, and one called “Afghanistan” which will be the main article for the country and the texts will read “Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan” with the Taliban flag after Kabul is surrendered. The already-existing article for the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan in the late 90s should be renamed to Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996–2001). The 20-year gap is way too long to use that article for the main country. ArabMan719 (talk) 11:26, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:31C8:9F3C:4939:FFA3 (talk) 15:21, 15 August 2021 (UTC) It is the same continuous entity though. The Taliban is the 96-2001 Emirate, and the Taliban is what’s about to take power. They never stopped calling themselves the Islamic Emirate.

It’s kinda like if Taiwan suddenly retook all of China. Would we call them the same entity as the pre-49 Republic of China?

Call for consensus on describing the state as the "Islamic Emirate" of Afghanistan

Given the rapid pace of the chaotic retreat of western forces from Afghanistan, and the ensuing collapse of the western-backed government security forces, it now seems likely that there will be a full Taliban takeover of the country. Without getting into WP:CRYSTAL territory, I thought it'd be a good idea to get a sense of what consensus should be on using the taliban's name for Afghanistan - namely the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan". In particular, should there be

1. . No mention of the new regime
2. . Mention the regime, but in self-source or "scare quote" format
3. . Describe the state as the islamic emirate
4. . other

69.172.145.94 (talk) 05:15, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:31C8:9F3C:4939:FFA3 (talk) 07:01, 15 August 2021 (UTC) Treat this as the same entity as the 1996-2001 ruling Emirate and the 2002-2021 Emirate during the civil war that we called the Taliban. Give a separate page for the former “Islamic Republic” that will shortly be in exile.

@2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:31C8:9F3C:4939:FFA3:, I do see that as a possibility - however given that this entity is unlikely to have widespread political recognition - one wonders if it'll end up in the same limbo as Taiwan - a de-facto state that nobody relevant recognizes. Wording may have to be added, and possibly this article added to the category on partially recognized states. 69.172.145.94 (talk) 07:24, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

The previous government is a de-jure only. Afghanistan has been captured completely by the Taliban, therefore it sets the rule. This includes the flag, and the government structure. As an Encyclopedia, we must refelct the current situation, regardless what we believe is right.--Exx8 (talk) 08:41, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

While the IEA appears, per RS, to be in de facto control of the whole of the country outside a small section of central Kabul, events are too fluid. That said, I would support removing "officially the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" from the lead and replacing "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" in the infobox with just "Afghanistan". Chetsford (talk) 09:21, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I think the page should be changed/reflect the Islamic Emirate of Afganistan in the following days as the Taliban declares its victory and the various countries begin to recognize the Emirate which should happen very quickly Jibran1998 (talk) 10:37, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Let's wait to see what happens in Kabul. Ghani is still president for now. We will likely know more very soon. On Wikipedia, we don't lead the sources, we trail them. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 10:42, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Tartan357, I agree with you Jibran1998 (talk) 11:18, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

This is inherently WP:CRYSTAL territory. We shouldn't call it anything until RSs start doing so - then we go with them. — Czello 11:26, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

• If the capital is surrendered and a new country forms, I think we need to split this page. One which will be called “Islamic Republic of Afghanistan” which will be a historic article covering the history of the country from 2001 to 2021, and one called “Afghanistan” which will be the main article for the country and the texts will read “Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan” with the Taliban flag after Kabul is surrendered. The already-existing article for the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan in the late 90s should be renamed to Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996–2001). The 20-year gap is way too long to use that article for the main country. ArabMan719 (talk) 11:26, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
• Ghani has now agreed to step down and talks have been announced over the creation of a Taliban-led transition government. It's likely we will get an official announcement later today or tomorrow. I think we should leave the article as is until an official announcement, given that the timeframe likely won't be long, so we can immediately put the details of this new government into the Infobox. At that stage we should call it the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" in this article's intro and rename the current Islamic Emirate article into "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996-2001)" as the user above suggested.--RM (Be my friend) 11:49, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

  Do you have evidence for your claim that Ghani has now agreed to step down? ― Tartan357 ^Talk 11:51, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

  It's been widely reported in the media.--RM (Be my friend) 14:31, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

• I agree that the flag and name of the country on this page should be changed to correspond to that of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. This page should be for the current rulers of Afghanistan. Another page should be made for the Afghanistan that is about to cease to exist, similar to how there's been a separate one for the former IEA. SpicyBiryani (talk) 12:06, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

• They're not the current rulers of Afghanistan, though. Given that there's going to be a transitional government, we're not entirely sure when they will be the rulers. Even then, we don't add their old flags/names until they do. It's speculative and WP:CRYSTAL to change it at this point. — Czello 14:35, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree we should hold off on changing the flag or name until we get something official but de facto they are the rulers of Afghanistan. The recognized Afghan government has fallen apart and President Ghani has fled the country.--RM (Be my friend) 16:05, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

De facto they may be, but de jure they're not (yet). Unless we get into a discussion about listing both in the infobox then I think it's too soon. — Czello 16:07, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Taliban take entire country

How do we rewrite this article? Taliban have now taken Kabul and are agreeing with the govt a "peaceful takeover" National anthem will be removed as music would be banned, and would probably become an Islamic Emirate. The incumbent president Ghani has been forced to leave the country and media outlets are assuming the interim president will be Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, which is actually looking likely as reports he is being flown to Kabul. I did attempt an edit but it was reverted. Eck (talk) 13:44, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

We wait for WP:Reliable sources to specifically note various items, such as for example if the anthem is removed, the various political positions, and then reflect those sources. CMD (talk) 13:58, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Going off the last time the Taliban were in power from 96 to 01 they banned all music and had no anthem so it isn't entirely a leap. Eck (talk) 14:14, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeah but its been almost 20 years since they last ruled, we can't be sure of how they'll behave now. Best to wait and see what they do.--RM (Be my friend) 14:33, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

See also this talk page - Talk:Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan#Rename page to “Afghanistan”, merge with Taliban, and rename current Afghanistan article to “Islamic Republic of Afghanistan”Manabimasu (talk) 15:49, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Asfraf Ghani

Reliable sources state that Ghani has fled the country. Why is he still listed as president? He clearly is no longer in power. Perhaps the position in the info bar should read, “unknown” or “disputed” or “vacant”. I’m retired from editing pages, but I feel for accuracy, this should be addressed. Thanks. Juneau Mike (talk) 16:05, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes,even the spanish Wikipedia says that Ghani is exilied. I will edit the page. Ricardo.Pazos.2009.4509 (talk) 16:13, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Leaving the country doesn't stop him from being President or still giving orders. Even though he may not be in Afghanistan anymore, plenty of people and governments see him as the President. WP needs relivable sources before it changes something like this ThinkingTwice ^{contribs | talk} 16:14, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh, i rememeber that the page is protected 😅 Ricardo.Pazos.2009.4509 (talk) 16:14, 15 August 2021 (UTC)