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Borders in table

The table with automobile groups and its brands in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry#Top_vehicle_manufacturing_groups_by_volume is terrible without the borders (they are not seen at least in firefox). Could someone add the borders? Also the table is too narrow and too high.

Expand List

I was wondering if it would be good if we expanded the "Top vehicle manufacturing groups by volume" list from 10 to 15 since the information already exists in the Spanish page. It would just need a few edits to fit formatting. Any thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AquilaXIII (talk • contribs) 00:22, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This was dicussed before, but well... The Spanish list is merely a (bad) copy of the previous list used here, before it were trimmed, and has some mistakes. For example, it says the Dacia marque is sold in South America, which is not the case (merely sharing products with its parent company doesn't mean it operates there, as Vauxhall doesn't operate in Germany). Extending the list to 15 is just an invitation to people adding its favourite group, without considering it is probably irrelevant from a volume (not considering things as revenue) perspective. The list focus is volume, and all the major groups relevant under that perspective (volume manufacturers) are listed. Besides, the table simply repeats info and has such questionable things as flags identifying multinational companies. Urbanoc (talk) 00:58, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Top vehicle manufacturing groups by volume - Business unit vs. brand

I have taken the liberty of removing a few entries from the list where brands were mistakenly identified as business units. The linked articles correctly identify them as brands. The joint ventures that operate these brands OTH could be listed as business units, or rather more precisely as joint ventures. I did just a few, please review this list for more. Thank you. BsBsBs (talk) 07:37, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Corporate relationships

The “Corporate relationships” chapter is flagged as not citing “any sources.” Well, it cites a handful, but the bulk of the information is unsourced. Without the sources, the information is impossible to verify. Off the top of my automotive business journalist head, a lot of the information is plain wrong.

- Dongfeng and Nissan do not have a 50-50 JV called Venucia. Venucia is a brand owned and operated by the existing Dongfeng/Nissan JV in China.

- Ford/Mazda: Worth checking whether Ford still holds a 3% interest in Mazda. https://auto2014.wordpress.com/2013/11/15/mazdas-ownership-major-shareholders/ lists no Ford interest in 2013, and a 3.5% interest in 2010.

- Ford/Aston Martin: I need to check whether Ford still owns a 12.1% share in Aston Martin. Doubtful.

- Geely: Lists an unimportant ownership of London Taxi, but omits the very important ownership of Volvo.

- Toyota/Daihatsu: Toyota has long converted its prior 51% ownership into full ownership

- Renault/Nissan. According to http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/COMPANY/PROFILE/ALLIANCE/RENAULT03/ “Renault holds a 43.4% stake in Nissan,” not 44.3%

There probably is a lot more. Sure, it all should be fixed if broken. However:

The above very much incomplete spot checks illustrate the importance of sources. Ownerships are continuously shifting. Unless these shifts are constantly monitored, and unless the information is consistently updated, we run the risk of perpetuating false information, even if the information is correct at the time of writing.

I would like to open a discussion of what to do with this chapter. BsBsBs (talk) 07:37, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Update: As a spot check, I contacted Aston Martin, and inquired about the Ford shares. The answer was that "Ford does not own any part of the company." Aston Martin is a private company, and as such, their shareholders are not readily available in an always updated fashion. For all companies, ownership levels are in constant flux and likely to have changed before cited in WP. I see the following options for this chapter:

- Removal of all unsourced material, and a note that the remaining entries reflect the status at the time of the source's writing, which may have changed. Material for which sources are added will of course stay.

- Removal of the whole chapter.

I will remove the false Ford shares, not due to my original research, simply because the claim is unsourced and because no source to back up the claim could be found. BsBsBs (talk) 07:38, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Revision as of 07:38, 7 February 2017 edit BsBsBs (talk \| contribs) Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers 3,268 edits →‎Corporate relationships ← Previous edit		Revision as of 07:38, 7 February 2017 edit undo BsBsBs (talk \| contribs) Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers 3,268 edits →‎Corporate relationships Next edit →
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	** Removal of the whole chapter.		** Removal of the whole chapter.

	I will remove the false Ford shares, not due do my original research, simply because the claim is unsourced and because no source to back up the claim could be found. [[User:BsBsBs\|BsBsBs]] ([[User talk:BsBsBs\|talk]]) 07:38, 7 February 2017 (UTC)		I will remove the false Ford shares, not due to my original research, simply because the claim is unsourced and because no source to back up the claim could be found. [[User:BsBsBs\|BsBsBs]] ([[User talk:BsBsBs\|talk]]) 07:38, 7 February 2017 (UTC)