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On whom all hopes we fix?

The version shown in the infobox image says on him (meaning the monarch) but the version in the main text says on thee (meaning God). I've heard both versions sung in recordings I've come across. There's already mention of the controversy over whose enemies are being scattered, but no discussion of this difference. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 17:34, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source incorrect for claim of no English national anthem

The source is incorrect for the claim of no English national anthem. I didn't find a better source, so I have not changed it. 86.3.140.205 (talk) 22:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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+== On whom all hopes we fix? ==
-== Will this page be renamed when Charles becomes king? ==
+The version shown in the infobox image says on ''him'' (meaning the monarch) but the version in the main text says on ''thee'' (meaning God). I've heard both versions sung in recordings I've come across. There's already mention of the controversy over whose enemies are being scattered, but no discussion of this difference. [[User:Robin S. Taylor|Robin S. Taylor]] ([[User talk:Robin S. Taylor|talk]]) 17:34, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
-Queen Elizabeth II will die. Death is inevitable and will get to her too. When she dies, Charles will become king, and thus, the anthem's lyrics will be changed. Will this page also be renamed? [[Special:Contributions/62.165.228.198|62.165.228.198]] ([[User talk:62.165.228.198|talk]]) 17:32, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
+== Source incorrect for claim of no English national anthem ==
-::Yes, this page will be renamed (among many other rather more far-reaching changes). But until that happens, there's not really a lot of point in discussing it. [[User:GrindtXX|GrindtXX]] ([[User talk:GrindtXX|talk]]) 18:25, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
+The source is incorrect for the claim of no English national anthem. I didn't find a better source, so I have not changed it. [[Special:Contributions/86.3.140.205|86.3.140.205]] ([[User talk:86.3.140.205|talk]]) 22:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
-This has happened. [[User:NowIOnlyWantATriumph|NowIOnlyWantATriumph]] ([[User talk:NowIOnlyWantATriumph|talk]]) 17:35, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-Quick, quick, change it, no time to waste, chop chop! [[User:StrexcorpEmployee|StrexcorpEmployee]] ([[User talk:StrexcorpEmployee|talk]]) 17:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-:The only objection I could see, as I write this, is that we should have waited for an official announcement of the change (e.g. the possibility they would like to play the song at her funeral still under the "God Save the Queen" title). But "God Save the King" is the original title of the song. So there's that. [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] ([[User talk:Zzyzx11|talk]]) 18:00, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-::What if the ruler is non-binary though? [[Special:Contributions/98.148.77.27|98.148.77.27]] ([[User talk:98.148.77.27|talk]]) 18:54, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-:::Yup. It's well past time for gender-neutral words. [[User:BilCat|BilCat]] ([[User talk:BilCat|talk]]) 20:45, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-::::And religion-neutral too. Since "monarch" is two syllables, "Save the Monarch" would work. [[User:BilCat|BilCat]] ([[User talk:BilCat|talk]]) 20:47, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-:::::If Charles III were non-binary, we would have heard something about the change in the anthem from royal/government authorities. We are not a forum to discuss academic hypotheticals. [[User:Szmenderowiecki|Szmenderowiecki]] ([[User talk:Szmenderowiecki|talk]]) 21:52, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-::::::I wasn't. I was being sarcastic. I could care less what other countries do, except for those colonies not yet free of England's bloody yoke and butchers' apron. [[User:BilCat|BilCat]] ([[User talk:BilCat|talk]]) 22:33, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-:::::::I know, but I just wanted to cut short any talk page drama. [[User:Szmenderowiecki|Szmenderowiecki]] ([[User talk:Szmenderowiecki|talk]]) 23:26, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-::::::::Ok, and I agree. [[User:BilCat|BilCat]] ([[User talk:BilCat|talk]]) 23:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-:::::Maybe now is the time, with a New Monarch on the throne, to compose a New National Anthem, with new music and new words. There are numerous anthems around the world, with far more appropriate words and tunes; the Australian and Welsh anthems being two of note.  You may not understand the Words of the Welsh National Anthem, but as a schoolboy, I sang it in school and at Rugby Matches.  It's a powerful song and one I always enjoy hearing and singing, even though I'm English and don't speak Welsh. [[Special:Contributions/81.103.20.178|81.103.20.178]] ([[User talk:81.103.20.178|talk]]) 14:53, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
-== French origins ==
-This was apparently written in 1686:
-Grand Dieu sauve le roi<br/>
-Longs jours à notre roi<br/>
-Vive le roi<br/>
-À lui la victoire<br/>
-Bonheur et gloire<br/>
-qu’il ait un règne heureux<br/>
-et l’appui des cieux<br/>
-Please investigate. [[User:Szmenderowiecki|Szmenderowiecki]] ([[User talk:Szmenderowiecki|talk]]) 18:32, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-:The origins are already heavily covered in the article. Is that lyric mentioned? If not, do you have a reliable source of its origins? [[User:BilCat|BilCat]] ([[User talk:BilCat|talk]]) 23:42, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-::[https://www.lefigaro.fr/langue-francaise/actu-des-mots/god-save-the-queen-cet-hymne-que-le-royaume-uni-doit-a-la-france-20220602 This] and [https://www.cairn.info/revue-hegel-2019-1-page-44.htm this]. The fr.wiki article [https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_King#Texte says] this is apocryphal, but apparently this exists. There is also some info in Victorian-era books [https://books.google.pl/books?id=a9dbHhmPTysC&pg=PA239&dq=god+save+the+king+%22grand+dieu+sauve+le+roi%22&hl=pl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjqsIvqzIj6AhUQpIsKHfo8BH0Q6AF6BAgFEAI here], [https://books.google.pl/books?id=ryBYAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA122&dq=god+save+the+king+%22grand+dieu+sauve+le+roi%22&hl=pl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjqsIvqzIj6AhUQpIsKHfo8BH0Q6AF6BAgDEAI#v=onepage&q=god%20save%20the%20king%20%22grand%20dieu%20sauve%20le%20roi%22&f=false here]. There's also a passing mention [https://books.google.pl/books?id=Y9xICgAAQBAJ&pg=PT21&dq=god+save+the+king+%22grand+dieu+sauve+le+roi%22&hl=pl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjqsIvqzIj6AhUQpIsKHfo8BH0Q6AF6BAgJEAI here], from a [[Yves Vander Cruysen|Belgian historian]]. [[User:Szmenderowiecki|Szmenderowiecki]] ([[User talk:Szmenderowiecki|talk]]) 21:02, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
-== Swedish royal anthem ==
-Another addition to the list of ripoffs. The tune and words were also used for the first Swedish royal anthem, Bevare Gud vår kung. [[Special:Contributions/101.112.157.94|101.112.157.94]] ([[User talk:101.112.157.94|talk]]) 12:43, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
-== "To sing with heart and voice" vs. "With heart and voice to sing" ==
-The article currently shows the last two lines of the final verse as "With heart and voice to sing/God Save the King" whereas under a female monarch it was "To sing with heart and voice/God save the Queen." Several reliable sources indicate it was "With heart and voice to sing" under previous male monarchs, however most sources that have covered this since Elizabeth's death indicate that it will still be "To sing with heart and voice." The Sun says otherwise, but I believe it's a depracated source as unreliable. Do we know yet what the lyric will be at this point? Or do we just have to wait for it to be performed at an official performance or something? The Royal Family website says "To sing with heart and voice" as of right now. [[User:Smartyllama|Smartyllama]] ([[User talk:Smartyllama|talk]]) 15:04, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
-:I have a 1911 hymnbook in front of me as I type, open at the National Anthem. It very clearly says "To sing with heart and voice / God save the king". (The Hymnal Companion to the Book of Common Prayer; Longmans, 1911)
-:Is there any actual evidence of "With heart and voice to sing" other than speculation based on the rhyme with king? That is not the rhyming scheme though. The first verse has victorious/glorious/over us, and the verse in question has laws/cause/voice -- admittedly not a perfect rhyme. [[User:Skershaw|Simon Kershaw]] ([[User talk:Skershaw|talk]]) 08:32, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
-== Title change ==
-I know this question is very theoretical, but:
-What if England switches every day between leaders of each gender?? What could we do to this article's title?? [[User:Georgia guy|Georgia guy]] ([[User talk:Georgia guy|talk]]) 16:31, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
-:[[WP:FORUM]] [[User:Szmenderowiecki|Szmenderowiecki]] ([[User talk:Szmenderowiecki|talk]]) 20:48, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
-== French-Canadian lyrics ==
-The current French lyrics for use in Canada in the article are taken (accurately) from a Canadian government website, but are blatantly wrong. After calling on God to preserve the King, the 4th and 5th lines continue "Rends-la victorieuse, / Heureuse et glorieuse ...", i.e. "Send HER victorious ...". Or maybe we are witnessing the new non-binary monarchy suggested above ... [[User:GrindtXX|GrindtXX]] ([[User talk:GrindtXX|talk]]) 19:34, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
-:The lyrics are [https://www.canada.ca/fr/patrimoine-canadien/services/symboles-titres-royaux/hymne-royal.html already updated] to reflect the monarch's change. [[User:Szmenderowiecki|Szmenderowiecki]] ([[User talk:Szmenderowiecki|talk]]) 20:49, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
-::Yes, the first three lines have been updated; my point is that lines 4 and 5 still use the feminine form. [[User:GrindtXX|GrindtXX]] ([[User talk:GrindtXX|talk]]) 21:49, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
-:::OK, I see the point. Yeah, in this case I think you should simply change it to "Rends-le victorieux, Heureux et glorieux..." as this is an obvious error. You can flag the error for now on the webpage. [[User:Szmenderowiecki|Szmenderowiecki]] ([[User talk:Szmenderowiecki|talk]]) 00:38, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-==Liechtenstein national anthem==
-{{edit semi-protected|God Save the King|answered=yes}}
-The melody is also used for the Liechtensteiner national anthem. [[Special:Contributions/84.236.124.64|84.236.124.64]] ([[User talk:84.236.124.64|talk]]) 05:34, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-:[[File:Pictogram voting wait.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Already done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> It's already mentioned. [[User:BilCat|BilCat]] ([[User talk:BilCat|talk]]) 06:09, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-== Requested move 10 September 2022 ==
-<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
-:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. ''
-The result of the move request was: '''[[WP:SNOW]] not moved'''. <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closure by a page mover|closed by non-admin page mover]])</small>  [[User:GeoffreyT2000|GeoffreyT2000]] ([[User talk:GeoffreyT2000|talk]]) 15:05, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-----
-[[:God Save the King]] → ? – I see that the page has been [[Special:Diff/1109514007|moved again]], this time to a more gender-neutral title. For once and for all, we should have an RM on record on what the best title should be. "God Save the King" is the original title and is likely to be used in the next couple of generations, but the article should still reference "God Save the Queen" when discussing specific events when Elizabeth II was still the monarch. [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] ([[User talk:Zzyzx11|talk]]) 11:12, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-:'''Oppose'''.  What would we call it, "God Save the Monarch?"  In the absence of a proposed new title, let's hold off on any moves. [[User:Tom Danson|Tom Danson]] ([[User talk:Tom Danson|talk]])
-:'''Oppose''', the title goes with the current monarch, who is now a male who identifies as King. [[User:Randy Kryn|Randy Kryn]] ([[User talk:Randy Kryn|talk]]) 13:40, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-:'''Oppose''' The Queen has died, so why someone changed again the title, unless there are no ones takes the throne of the monarch. [[Special:Contributions/180.241.208.87|180.241.208.87]] ([[User talk:180.241.208.87|talk]]) 13:41, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-:'''Oppose''' I believe that the title of this article should match the official title of the anthem. Since the UK now has a king, I believe that the official title of this anthem is now "God Save the King". Therefore, the title of this article should be "God Save the King". [[User:RyanW1995|RyanW1995]] ([[User talk:RyanW1995|talk]]) 13:58, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-*'''Oppose''' What is being proposed here? The move has been reverted, the title is listed as "God Save the King", keep it as is, close this, get the ugly tag off the high-trafficked page, and stop wasting our time. [[User:Smartyllama|Smartyllama]] ([[User talk:Smartyllama|talk]]) 14:14, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
-</div><div style="clear:both;"></div>
-== What is the current version of the lyrics ==
-There are so many historical versions of the lyrics in this page. Can the current version by highlighted as a separate section named "Current official UK version" I have gone through the page and still dont know what is the official version being used presently. [[User:Venkat TL|Venkat TL]] ([[User talk:Venkat TL|talk]]) 11:26, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-:The modern lyrics are:
-:Verse 1: God save our gracious king!
-:Long live our noble king!
-:God save the king!
-:Send him victorious,
-:Happy and glorious,
-:Long to reign over us;
-:God save the king!
-:Verse 2:
-:Thy choicest gifts in store
-:On him be pleased to pour;
-:Long may he reign!
-:May he defend our laws,
-:And ever give us cause
-:To sing with heart and voice,
-:God save the king! [[User:RayAdvait|RayAdvait]] ([[User talk:RayAdvait|talk]]) 11:31, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-::@[[User:RayAdvait|RayAdvait]] thank you. I have added this into the article. Please include a reliable source as reference. [[User:Venkat TL|Venkat TL]] ([[User talk:Venkat TL|talk]]) 16:39, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
-== Move article from God Save the King / God Save the Queen to God Save the King ==
-I would like to move the article from God Save the King / God Save the Queen to God Save the King since it's obvious that now the [[Elizabeth II|Queen]] has died. Please share your consensus on this. [[User:RayAdvait|RayAdvait]] ([[User talk:RayAdvait|talk]]) 11:36, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-:This would seem a trivial and ultimately unnecessary change. The current article presents the anthem from a neutral perspective, acknowledging its history, and the unknowable future. Obviously many people are very motivated to update our encyclopedia surrounding all aspects of the monarchy, but I would not agree this is actually beneficial or useful from a factual perspective. [[User:Afiaki|Afiaki]] ([[User talk:Afiaki|talk]]) 11:51, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-::However, since writing this comment it seems the opening sentence of the article has been revised and now works in much better with the singular title. [[User:Afiaki|Afiaki]] ([[User talk:Afiaki|talk]]) 12:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-I've requested to move [[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests|God Save the King / God Save the Queen to God Save the King]] since this is an undiscussed move and also I've warned this [[User talk:Fastrunner78|user]].  <span style="font-family: Georgia; background-color: maroon; padding: 2px 3px 1px 3px;">[[User:HurricaneEdgar|<span style="color: greenyellow">HurricaneEdgar</span>]] [[HurricaneEdgar|<span style="color: greenyellow"></span>]]</span> 11:41, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-:@[[User:HurricaneEdgar|HurricaneEdgar]] and @[[User:RayAdvait|RayAdvait]]: moved back. Please continue with the RM that has been opened just above this thread/ ─ [[User:TheAafi|<span style="color:SteelBlue">The Aafī</span>]] [[User talk:TheAafi|<span style="color:#80A0FF">(talk)</span>]] 11:51, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-::ok [[User:RayAdvait|RayAdvait]] ([[User talk:RayAdvait|talk]]) 13:10, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-== "God Save the King / God Save the Queen" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
-[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
-An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect [[:God Save the King / God Save the Queen]] and has thus listed it [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|for discussion]]. This discussion will occur at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 10#God Save the King / God Save the Queen]] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:GeoffreyT2000|GeoffreyT2000]] ([[User talk:GeoffreyT2000|talk]]) 15:34, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
-== Standard version in the United Kingdom ==
-If the second version is "omitted since the late 19th century." When then are we still adding the second para and yet calling it the "Standard version". This is causing unnecessary confusion. I suggest to rename the header appropriately or drop the second para from this section and move it to some other appropriate section. [[User:Venkat TL|Venkat TL]] ([[User talk:Venkat TL|talk]]) 11:04, 19 September 2022 (UTC)