Talk:Guillermo Mota
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expansion request
There should be explicit text stating Mota's role in Gagne's record 84 consecutive saves. I think Mota was the setup man at the time and his bio should say so by mentioning the record, IMO.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:25, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
Mota did not become Gagne's setup man until 2004 (mentioned), and Gagne's streak is mentioned because Mota was the winning pitcher for the eighty-fourth straight save. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 13:07, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
GA Review
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Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Guillermo Mota/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: — KV5 • Talk • 01:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
This article has potential, but it does have some issues that need to be addressed before it would be worthy of the +. I'll be providing comments in tranches, because I doubt I'll have time to go over the whole article in one sitting.
First tranche of comments
- Article-wide
- The article needs to be audited for MOS:NUM compliance. All numbers above nine should be written in numerals (10 and up) unless they are comparable quantities (see WP:ORDINAL).
Done
- Check dablinks and deadlinks.
Done
- All images need alternative text (two are currently without). On the line of images, the Dodgers picture is the best-quality image and therefore must be the infobox image. Compared to the current lead image, the Mota image illustrates the article best.
- Are you sure the Dodgers picture should be the infobox image because it is the best quality image? The Giants image is definitely not as good, but it is a more recent photo, and you can tell what Mota looks like from it. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 10:44, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- You can tell his general outline, but there's no clear view of his face, for one. The Dodgers image seems to be the only one that shows him pitching, in motion, with his face showing (relatively) clearly. So yes, I'm sure. If a high-quality recent more image is found, that would obviously take precedence, but of the images on Commons, the Dodgers one is clearly superior. — KV5 • Talk • 10:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- OK. Images fixed. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 11:32, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- You can tell his general outline, but there's no clear view of his face, for one. The Dodgers image seems to be the only one that shows him pitching, in motion, with his face showing (relatively) clearly. So yes, I'm sure. If a high-quality recent more image is found, that would obviously take precedence, but of the images on Commons, the Dodgers one is clearly superior. — KV5 • Talk • 10:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- Avoid baseball jargon such as "going 6–3"; these things need to be explicitly illustrated (i.e., a 6–3 record). If they cannot be avoided, or if they are used to reduce repetition, you should link to the Glossary of baseball.
Done
- Another article-wide comment added June 3: references need to be consistently formatted. If you link one source, you have to link them all each time. Also: MLB.com is not a publisher, it is a work, as are all websites and newspapers (especially newspapers). On MLB's website, the work should be "teamname dot MLB dot com" (examples: Redsox.MLB.com; Phillies.MLB.com), and the publisher is "Major League Baseball". For Baseball-Reference, it needs to be "Baseball-Reference.com", and the publisher is "Sports Reference LLC". For Retrosheet, you can either fill in "Retrosheet.com" for the work, "Retrosheet, Inc" as the publisher, or both.
Done
- Lead
- Suggest adding player's official height and weight in the lead (with {{convert}} templates).
Done
- The second paragraph is huge. Break it up.
Done
- The lead is overlinked; each team should only be linked at first appearance in the lead.
Done
- "Rule V" should be Rule 5, as per the article
Done
- You say forms of "struggle" twice in quick succession; change one
Done
- The lead has "He... he... he... he...." over and over again. Re-word some of those sentences or replace some pronouns with "Mota" to reduce the repetitiveness. You also don't need the second "he" in many of the sentences that are structured "He... but he". You can just remove the second (example: He became the setup man to closer Éric Gagné in 2004, but was traded to the Florida Marlins midseason. There are more; that's just one instance.
Done
- Link infielder, closer, designated for assignment, free agent, spring training
Done
- The third paragraph should be subsumed into another paragraph of the lead (if it needs to be in there at all); one sentence isn't acceptable for a paragraph. Pitch names should also be linked.
Done
- In the infobox: "Win-Loss" needs to be "Win–loss" - win and loss are not proper nouns, and it is an en-dash just like when it is the numbers (in other words, 12–10 is the same as win–loss).
Done
- In the infobox: "2010-present" needs an en-dash
Done
- Early years and minor league
- "in San Pedro de Macorís,
locatedin the Dominican Republic."Done
- "Jose Joaquin Perez" - are there any diacritics needed here?
- This name came from Mota's MLB.com bio. There were no diacritics there, but there also are no diacritics on MLB.com, so I'll let you decide what to do there. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 15:46, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
- Hm, an interesting conundrum. I might bring it up at WT:MLB once I've had a chance to think about it and do a little research of my own. — KV5 • Talk • 10:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- "two years
ofplaying baseball"Done
- "in 1993, as a third baseman." - remove comma
Done
- "He batted .249" - you should make batting average explicit on first use; afterward, saying "he batted..." is fine.
Done
- "Next season, he spent most of the season" - twice season; change one to year (pref. the second)
Done
- "he batted
just.245" - there are a lot of these unneeded modifiers in the article that need to be removed.Done
- "In 1995" - comma after
Done
- Since you use the ERA abbreviation throughout the article, after "earned run average" you need to add (ERA) to make that explicit.
Done
- "batted
just.243" - again, modifierDone
- "Rule V draft" - Rule 5 again
Done
- "he went 5–10" - this is probably the most egregious poor use of jargon; "he went so-and-so" isn't professional-style writing, even if professional sportswriters do it, and there are many instances
Done
- 1999
- "Mota made his major league debut
with themthe same day"Done
- Link inning
Done
- All instances of fractional innings written as decimals need to be changed. It's not two-and-two-tenths innings; it's 2+2⁄3 innings. Baseball readers know this, but uninitiated readers will read the former and not understand two-tenths of an inning.
Done
- Instead of linking walkoff, link the whole phrase Walk-off home run.
Done
- "He got" - you have two straight sentences starting with the same phrase; there are better ways to say this. Consider "He earned", "He captured", "He procured"... there are other options, these are just a few suggestions.
Done
- "ERA on the season" - should be for the season in both instances (or re-write one sentence to reduce repetitiveness)
Done
These are the first group; I will return when I have some more time to review further. — KV5 • Talk • 01:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
Second tranche of comments
- 2000-2001
- "Despite his great rookie season" - in whose opinion? Using modifiers like "great" isn't neutral, unless you can cite it to a reliable source and quote it directly.
Done
- More doubled "He... and he" structures here
Done
- "After he had a 12.60 ERA" - better would be After amassing a 12.60 ERA or something similar
Done
- You say "to Ottawa" several times in quick succession. You could replace one or more with "to the Lynx", "to the minor leagues", etc.
Done
- "before he was
againreturned to Ottawa" - there are two of theseDone
- "improved greatly in September" - according to whom?
Done
- "one third" - should be 1⁄3 or one-third, your choice
Done
- "a 16.62 ERA over his next six games moved his ERA up to 4.00" - a non-baseball reader isn't going to understand this. Something more like "xxx' earned runs over his next six games raised his ERA to 4.00 would be better.
Done
- "He settled down after that, though" - very informal language for an encyclopedia
Done
- "after that 12 game stretch" - 12-game is a compound adjective
Done
- "he had a 22.50 ERA over his next four games that brought his ERA up to 4.29" - as above
Done
- Link disabled list
Done
- Dodgers
- "He... but he" or "He... and he" are frequent in this section
Done
- "twelve-inning" - 12-inning
Done
- "He went" jargons again
Done
- "15.2 consecutive scoreless" - innings again
Done
- "off of Joe Roa" - against Joe Roa would be better, "off of" is informal
Done
- "After Paul Quantrill became a free agent" - you've already mentioned and linked Quantrill, so you can remove his first name
Done
- "did not give up a run" - did not allow a run would be better
Done
- "five game winning streak" - five-game
Done
- "final save of his 84 straight converted save chances" - perhaps a link to Save (baseball)#Most consecutive somewhere in here?
Done
- Link closer at its first appearance in the article prose (I just now noticed it wasn't linked)
Done
- You need the (NL) abbreviation after the first appearance of National League
Done
- Marlins
- "fifth best average" - fifth-best average
Done
- "who had been filling in for Mota as the closer, remained the closer" - repetitive; you could probably strike "as the closer" without affecting the meaning
Done
- "but a 16.20 ERA through his next seven games raised his ERA to 7.27" - as above
Done
- "he improved after that" - according to who?
Done
- "7–6 victory over St. Louis" - ok, so who is St. Louis, if I'm not a baseball reader? The whole article will need to be audited to ensure that team names appear in full and linked at first occurrence.
- The Cardinals are linked at their first occurrence, back in the 1999 section. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 14:57, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- OK. — KV5 • Talk • 17:05, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- The source does not call the Beckett trade "important". It just discusses the details of the trade.
Done
I'll continue at a later time. — KV5 • Talk • 11:38, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
Third tranche of comments
- Boston and Cleveland
- The "Boston" section is too short to stand alone. Combine Boston and Cleveland into a single section.
Done
- Link player to be named later
Done
- Once the sections are combined, you won't need to say "because Mota failed to pass a physical" twice
Done
- Perhaps a note in this section that relates to this being his only stint in the American League to date?
Done
- Mets
- Ref 55 is a statistics-only source and does not say that Mota "improved"
Done
- National League East should be NL East due to the prior use of abbreviation
Done
- "and blew a 4–1 lead" - what's blowing a lead (for non-baseballers)?
Done
- "Mota
thenpitched two"Done
- I know that MOS:NUM says numbers under 10 are words (and I mentioned that earlier), but game names are an exception in the baseball world, as nearly all reliable sources refer to them with numerals, so change to Game 2, Game 3, etc.
Done
- "$5 million two-year contract" - should be two-year, $5 million contract
Done
- "as he had a 7.71 ERA in them" - poor wording; better would be something simpler like collecting a 7.71 ERA
Done
- "as he had a 1.89 ERA in them" - same thing, but don't repeat the same identical wording
Done
- "During the streak" - what streak?
Done
- Brewers
- "Mota got off to a great start in 2008" - says who? Not the pure statistical reference
Done
- "Éric Gagné" - remove first name
Done
- Ref 75 doesn't mention the All-Star break; use a numeric date instead
Done
- "in the final 1.1 innings" - as above
Done
- Dodgers
- Why do the Dodgers suddenly have a year when the previous several sections don't? You lose the chronological sense of reference. Is it just because he had two stints with them? If so, this could be better dealt with by removing the year from the first section and renaming the second.
Done
- "However, he improved dramatically after that, as he had a 0.26 ERA over his next 29 games" - source doesn't say any of that, unless I'm missing something
Done
- "seventeen straight games" - 17
Done
- "he
thenhad a"Done
- "his lowest ERA since 2004" - you don't need to repeat "ERA" here
Done
- Giants
- "an invite" - formality; invitation, not "invite"
Done
- "fourteenth and fifteenth... fifteenth" - all should be numeric
Done
- "Iliotibial band syndrome" - this isn't a proper noun, decapitalize
Done
- "National League West Division" - as above, NL West
Done
- Piazza
- "catcher for the New York Mets" - either the Mets or New York, the former preferred due to ambiguity
Done
- "Mota
againhit Piazza"Done
- "and
bothMota and Piazza" or change to and both playersDone
- "Piazza
stillsearched the clubhouse before leavingtoo"Done
- "and fined, Mota $1,500" - change comma to unspaced em-dash
Done
- Pitching style
- The reference, whose reliability for scouting I question (TSN is great for stats, but whose scouts are those?), says that the change-up is a circle change-up, so that should be changed here and in the lead. Fangraphs also shows that he has, at times, used a splitter and curveball in the past, which you should also reference.
Done
- Reference section
- All New York Times references need to have their titles put in title case, not all caps, per MOS:CAP.
Done
This should be enough to get started for now. After these three groups of comments are complete, please ping my talk page so that I can re-review the article in full. Thanks, and happy editing. — KV5 • Talk • 19:05, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
Further comments
- Links in the ref section need to be fixed. The MLB website page needs to be linked instead of Major League Baseball (pipelink all the team subsites to MLB.com) and link Baseball-Reference.com.
- Shouldn't Major League Baseball be linked, because a page exists for it? Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 12:37, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
- Both can be linked, but since the website has its own article, that is preferred so that all formats remain alike. You have already linked the organization in the article anyway. This ensures that everything is connected. — KV5 • Talk • 21:59, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
- OK. Done. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 12:38, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
- Both can be linked, but since the website has its own article, that is preferred so that all formats remain alike. You have already linked the organization in the article anyway. This ensures that everything is connected. — KV5 • Talk • 21:59, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
- Shouldn't Major League Baseball be linked, because a page exists for it? Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 12:37, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
- "However, he began pitching better in September." - pure statistical references do not verify commentary of this nature
Done
- Your heavy reliance on reference #1 is a problem. First, it's an official league source (see WP:PRIMARYSOURCE). Second, most of the information is not directly contained on that page; it's contained in a popout Javascript window and it's buried. It has to be more clear where the information came from and how readers can get to and verify it. If I wasn't familiar with MLB.com, I wouldn't have known where to look.
Done
- Mota did not lead NL pitchers in innings pitched in 2003 (not even close, in fact). Figure out what's wrong.
Done
- "normal closer" - what do you mean by "normal"? Surely there is a better word
Done
- "he got his first save as a Marlin in an 11–5 victory over Arizona" - how did he get a save in a six-run victory? Odd enough that it bears explaining.
Done
- "However, he began pitching better after that." - commentary not verified by pure statistics
Done
- Section header with a slash not preferred; see MOS:SLASH for better usages
Done
- "He struggled in his first 16 games, collecting a 7.71 ERA in them.[69] However, he improved over his next 15 games, amassing a 1.89 ERA in them.[69]" - very similar sentences back-to-back; reword
Done
- The section on Piazza doesn't need to have the references duplicated so many times. If a reference verifies three sentences, it can be placed at the end of the third, not the end of the first, second, and third. You only need to duplicate a reference if another reference comes in between.
Done
- I question the reliability of TSN as a scouting source. Is there a better reference?
- Probably, but I used TSN on Jeremy Affeldt's article, and that passed a GA review. I don't think replacing this is necessary for this to be a good article. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 11:55, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
- Get the periods/full stops out of the image captions; none of these are full sentences. See WP:CAPTION for more info.
Done
Once these last few things are resolved, this should be good to go. — KV5 • Talk • 23:52, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Only other thing I can see is that Retrosheet and Fangraphs need to be linked in the references. — KV5 • Talk • 19:01, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think this article now qualifies as a good article; thus, I'll pass it. Cheers. — KV5 • Talk • 12:07, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
San Francisco Giants
He still belong to San Francisco Giants?--Inefable001 (talk) 22:34, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
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