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:Not at all. The report is used in the article. I would recommend however that we better reflect what it says. Currently we say, "While there may be some differences in the nutrient and anti-nutrient contents of organically and conventionally produced food, the variable nature of food production and handling makes it difficult to generalize results." The source says, "organic crops, on average, have higher concentrations of antioxidants, lower concentrations of Cd and a lower incidence of pesticide residues." Jytdog had opposed inclusions of findings in 2013 because they had not yet been published. But again unless the report says the food is healthier, we cannot make that claim any more than we can claim that oranges are healthier than lemons. [[User:The Four Deuces|TFD]] ([[User talk:The Four Deuces|talk]]) 20:35, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
:Not at all. The report is used in the article. I would recommend however that we better reflect what it says. Currently we say, "While there may be some differences in the nutrient and anti-nutrient contents of organically and conventionally produced food, the variable nature of food production and handling makes it difficult to generalize results." The source says, "organic crops, on average, have higher concentrations of antioxidants, lower concentrations of Cd and a lower incidence of pesticide residues." Jytdog had opposed inclusions of findings in 2013 because they had not yet been published. But again unless the report says the food is healthier, we cannot make that claim any more than we can claim that oranges are healthier than lemons. [[User:The Four Deuces|TFD]] ([[User talk:The Four Deuces|talk]]) 20:35, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

== "Not sufficient evidence" ==

Firstly, Source 7 is an older review of the effects of Organic food and is a purely secondary source. (It is a Wayback Machine article from January, 2011.) It simply states that ''currently'' there isn't enough evidence. Source 6 mentioned several pro-organic reasoning: "...bacteria resistant to 3 or more antibiotics was higher in conventional than in organic chicken and pork (risk difference, 33% [CI, 21% to 45%])." and "...risk for contamination with detectable pesticide residues was lower among organic than conventional produce (risk difference, 30% [CI, −37% to −23%])..." Source 5 goes on to say that "At our present state of knowledge, other factors rather than safety aspects seem to speak in favor of organic food." This is referring not specifically to human aspects of safety, but other aspects. The Wikipedia page seems to suggest safety and health in general. I needn't delve into source 3; its title is "Higher antioxidant and lower cadmium concentrations and lower incidence of pesticide residues in organically grown crops". Thus I propose that that is changed, and while I do not necessarily propose that the opposite is stated on the grounds that that could be considered a bit of undue weight without further review and research, so far it seems clear enough that ''that'' statement, at the very least, is false.

Revision as of 00:00, 30 June 2017

Former good articleOrganic food was one of the Sports and recreation good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 11, 2006Good article nomineeListed
February 22, 2007Featured article candidateNot promoted
October 15, 2007Good article reassessmentDelisted
Current status: Delisted good article

Environmental benefits/impact of Organic farming

This seems to be a notable omission. Environmental impact is listed as a motivation for choosing organic food, but there is no evidence either way presented here. Given the extended discussion of health/taste benefits, it would be good to have this included.

--Adlhancock (talk) 11:39, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It is not an omission, it is not allowed by the CABAL. Everything positive about organic food or organic gardening is blocked and/or removed, often on rather silly arguments. So have medical sources a far greater weight (undue to my opinion) than agricultural sources. The Banner talk 12:08, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Environmental impact discussion would not require medical sources. Review articles in scientific journals are harder to dismiss than other sources, so if you can find these to support a concise statement on impact, we can work on adding it to this article or Organic farming. It can be frustrating, but otherwise WP:RS sources that are not scientific studies tend to get removed.Dialectric (talk) 14:11, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion while the case for environmental benefits/impacts of organic farming is pretty strong, the page that case needs made is the organic farming page, not the organic food page. Farming methodology certainly impacts the environment. Many, but not all, organic methodologies are an improvement. But the improvements when they exist are on the production side not the consumers side.
Banner is correct of course in his assessment of the state of affairs on this page. However, that has been argued quite extensively (and bitterly) here for years. I don't see it changing here on this page until major changes are made in wiki policy. Anyone attempting too large a fix of the flaws on this page risks their ability to continue as an editor. So don't risk it. You are going up against a stonewall similar to the Tobacco lobby of years past. The fight needs to be done somewhere else, not on wiki. Redddbaron (talk) 15:59, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree -- and for this reason none of my circle of friends trust Wikipedia for similar topics. Speaking as a woman, and for women, I think it has a lot to do with the lopsided gender issues here. Gandydancer (talk) 16:17, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
While I understand that the editing environment can be frustrating, as long as you stick to policy, and go to rfc's rather than escalation/editwarring when conflict occurs, it is possible to get new information into these articles.Dialectric (talk) 16:24, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that it is better covered in the organic farming article. It might be helpful to if we had a hatnote referencing that article, since it is relevant to many readers of this article. TFD (talk) 16:30, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This seems the sensible option, both to avoid the politics above and given that it's the farming practices rather than the food itself affecting the environment. Adlhancock (talk) 07:50, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Issues with neutrality and/or framing

This subject is vulnerble to political bias. (Full disclosure: I oppose most of the public relation practices of some agricultural conglomerates). My personal bias prevents me from editing in good faith. And I apologize that my claims should evoke extreme skepticism. I also apologize that i only have about 15 minutes to spend on this.

Search term: "There is no sufficient evidence in medical literature to support claims that organic food is safer or healthier than conventionally grown food."

https://www.google.com/#q=%22There+is+no+sufficient+evidence+in+medical+literature+to+support+claims+that+organic+food+is+safer+or+healthier+than+conventionally+grown+food.%22&filter=0


It is highly unusual that an entire phrase be found on numerous pages, verbatim. The most common exceptions are common sayings, direct quotes from academic or other literature, as well as intentionally framed sentences by organizations not acting in good faith. The probability of this occurring directly by chance is nil.

Search term: "There is no good evidence that organic food tastes better than its non-organic counterparts."

https://www.google.com/#q=%22There+is+no+good+evidence+that+organic+food+tastes+better+than+its+non-organic+counterparts.%22&start=10&filter=0

As of wrting this phrase yields 63 results.

At this time, as of writing, it would be exceptionally unlikely to find any phrase I have written, verbatim.


Citation 4 is written by Robert Blake. Robert Blake supports precision agriculture. The source cannot be found online. The question of neutrality should be considered. I did not research other citations; however this was not chosen at random.

Of 3 phrases I searched two were sentences. One of those three such phrases was a paragraph, which was not found to be repeated. The other two are linked to above. These were not chosen at random.

It is common practice for public relations firms to employ extensive online strategies.

104.12.4.122 (talk) 15:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)Ross H.[reply]

The reason that the quote is found in other sites is that they have copied the article, see Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks. TFD (talk) 16:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Conventionally Grown Food (cont.)

New evidence - a metanalyses of 343 studies on the contents of organic food by the University of Newcastle - shows organic food is clearly healthier , in light of this new study - this whole wikipedia article needs to be rewritten as it currently misleading and is actually irresponsible, ignores the evidence and could endanger peoples health.:

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/news/2015/10/organicvsnon-organicfood/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.69.145.170 (talk) 14:38, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your source says organic produce is higher in antioxidants and lower in toxins, it does not say it is healthier. A person who consumes adequate antioxidants will not experience any benefits from additional antioxidants. Similarly, someone who consumes safe levels of toxins, such as are found in conventionally grown produce, will not experience any benefits through reducing them. To provide a parallel, oranges contain more vitamin C than lemons, yet we would not say they are healthier. So long as one gets sufficient vitamin C, it does not matter where it comes from. In any case, Leifert's findings already appear in this article. TFD (talk) 15:47, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It is positive, so it is shot down. Predictable. The Banner talk 17:52, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all. The report is used in the article. I would recommend however that we better reflect what it says. Currently we say, "While there may be some differences in the nutrient and anti-nutrient contents of organically and conventionally produced food, the variable nature of food production and handling makes it difficult to generalize results." The source says, "organic crops, on average, have higher concentrations of antioxidants, lower concentrations of Cd and a lower incidence of pesticide residues." Jytdog had opposed inclusions of findings in 2013 because they had not yet been published. But again unless the report says the food is healthier, we cannot make that claim any more than we can claim that oranges are healthier than lemons. TFD (talk) 20:35, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Not sufficient evidence"

Firstly, Source 7 is an older review of the effects of Organic food and is a purely secondary source. (It is a Wayback Machine article from January, 2011.) It simply states that currently there isn't enough evidence. Source 6 mentioned several pro-organic reasoning: "...bacteria resistant to 3 or more antibiotics was higher in conventional than in organic chicken and pork (risk difference, 33% [CI, 21% to 45%])." and "...risk for contamination with detectable pesticide residues was lower among organic than conventional produce (risk difference, 30% [CI, −37% to −23%])..." Source 5 goes on to say that "At our present state of knowledge, other factors rather than safety aspects seem to speak in favor of organic food." This is referring not specifically to human aspects of safety, but other aspects. The Wikipedia page seems to suggest safety and health in general. I needn't delve into source 3; its title is "Higher antioxidant and lower cadmium concentrations and lower incidence of pesticide residues in organically grown crops". Thus I propose that that is changed, and while I do not necessarily propose that the opposite is stated on the grounds that that could be considered a bit of undue weight without further review and research, so far it seems clear enough that that statement, at the very least, is false.

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