Talk:Outline of chocolate: Difference between revisions

Sweet! (literally) This became a reality! :) One suggestion, maybe we should have a "Chocolate in popular culture" so we can list stuff like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. -- penubag  (talk) 20:34, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

ersatzchocolate

i was gonna start cleaning up the article and am happy to do so but it is obviuously a work in progress so i left it alone

one thing i was thinking was about ersatzchocolate wartime false chocolate originally as the name suggests it was german but the term also passed into english. i think it was made largely from chicory presumably with some fat as a binder.

it is mentioned in orwells collected diaries i cant qiute think where but certainly during wartime. also this is trivia i suppose but in orwells nineteen eighty-four the chocoration (newspeak) is reduced from 30 grams to 20 grams a week and yet says it is increased i.e. an example of doublethink.

chocolate rations i have sourced from the home front handbook and have included in the article Rationing in the United Kingdom.

this is all rather trivial well not trivial but very much a sub article but just thought i'd note it while i think of it. btw i have kinda decided like ee cummings that capital letters are not necessary it is not ignorance. though of course in wikipedia proper i will follow style as best i can. SimonTrew (talk) 04:12, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it would be great if you could add that somewhere here. -- penubag  (talk) 21:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Merge

I see no reason not to merge this to Chocolate. I wonder why everyone is reverting on the article page without discussing the proposed merger. What are the arguments for and against the proposed merger? Hipocrite (talk) 12:43, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

One reason for the removal of the tag was probably that there where no argument for merge presented here. See belov. --Stefan ^talk 01:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

• I would support merge of anything relevant to Chocolate (which is the article that outlines Chocolate), and if anything is left perhaps, such as the assorted lists, a move to "List of chocolate topics" or some such, as this is clearly a list (not an outline, per any reasonable definition) apart from a few duplications of the chocolate article. Verbal chat 12:49, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

This is a thematically and hierarchically sorted list. It does not make sense to merge such lists with the respective articles. First, they are lists which we generally do not want in articles, second, they are aiming at complete coverage of all existing pages related to a topic on Wikipedia (unlike articles), and third, they are part of a hierarchy of connected articles under the WikiProject Outline of knowledge. I agree that the introductions in general might need some listifying / deprosing and/or trimming, but these issues have to be discussed centrally on Wikipedia_talk:Outlines. Alternatively, you could always propose this article for deletion. Cacycle (talk) 13:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The outlines project has failed to gain consensus and is mostly a small talking shop for supporters. No community consensus for the project or outlines in general has been demonstrated. Verbal chat 13:50, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

As stated before, outlines have been around about as long as lists; since Wikipedia was first created. There is no consensus for Lists just like there is no consensus for Outlines. -- penubag  (talk) 22:01, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm going to have to reject the suggestion that issues like this need to be taken up on the talk page of an essay. It would be great if the supporters and opposers of a merge could detail a quick lists of the pros and cons of any proposal, as opposed to pros and cons of venues to talk about a proposal. Thanks. Hipocrite (talk) 17:03, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

No one can seem to understand exactly how useful outlines can be. If I could ask you to take less than 1 minute of your time to read one paragraph right here perhaps we won't be arguing on what outlines are for. -- penubag  (talk) 22:01, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm gonna have to concur that regardless of the merits of the OOK project, this article is in a highly list-oriented format such that there's no reasonable way to merge it with Chocolate (unless one wants to toss the MoS out the window). Mine it for links to use at Chocolate, perhaps, but merging doesn't seem appropriate. --Cybercobra (talk) 22:11, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

• Not merge: I'm trying to find the argument for a merge but is having troble finding it above. Hipocrite states, ' I see no reason not to ' OK, 'I see no reason to', so now what?? Verbal is arguing something like, ' failed to gain consensus ', still very few outlines have been deleted, so there seams to be consensus to keep the articles, right? It is very hard to argue for not merging with that kind of arguments for a merge, it is the person that tags for merge that should put up the argument, not the other way around. Hipocrite, Verbal and all other people (and there must be a lot since WP:WPOOK have failed to gain consensus) PLEASE state the reason for merge. --Stefan ^talk 01:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Fallacious reasoning. There is no consensus to hve these articles, and certainly no consensus for the absolutely ridiculous and non intuitive naming. Verbal chat 08:20, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
• Comment: A merge is when two similar or redundant pages are united on one page (see WP:MERGE), since the two pages are not simmilar they can not be merged because of that (As stated above it is not really possible to take all the links from the outline and paste it into the main page), so then are Outline of chocolate redundant? Here there is an issue, but to tag individual pages with drive by merge tags is the wrong way of doing it. What needs to be done is to decide 2 things:
  1. is these type of outlines a benefit for the project, and if you do your research and read all the various discussions I think you can find enough people agreeing that they migth be good, see e.g. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Outline of Islamic and Muslim related topics, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of basic computer science topics, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of basic visual arts and design topics, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of basic industrial topics , Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of basic management topics , Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of basic Canada topics , Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of basic mining topics, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Topic outline of algebra, Topic outline of arithmetic, Topic outline of calculus, Topic outline of geometry, Topic outline of mathematics Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Topic outline of Big Science , Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Outline of South Africa, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Outline of Palestine. --Stefan ^talk 01:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
  2. If they are to be part of wikipedia, then how should they be named and in what article space should they be, this have been discussed many, many times, and the latest 'consensus' is outline of in article space, but if the community wants to rename it to something else or make a new outline space, that is not a big issue, please do. --Stefan ^talk 01:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Can we open a RFC, WP:PUMP discussion or something, to get a communit agreement on the two issues above, and stop this, I like outlines, I learned a lot working about the ones I have worked on, I found many articles that I did not know existed for the topics that I have been editing on for the last 5+ YEARS, I think they are useful to navigate wikipedia, categories are not and wikilinks are fine but is not the saem as outline pages!!! I do not want to spend lots of time making outlines IF the community really thinks this is a bad idea, but as I see it IMHO, there is a few individuals that is very vocal that disagrees, and I am not really sure why, I hear the article space and naming' issues, but this is not reasons to DELETE, only to have a nice discussion and come to an agreement. But I would like to hear the community and see if they really think this is a bad thing for wikipedia, then I will abide by that, but as it is now I do not think this is what the community thinks. Please stop the bickering, solve this on a wikipedia level and do not waste everyones time on local discussions like this. If we merge this outline I think we should merge all, I see no reason why choclate should be different from any other outline?? --Stefan ^talk 01:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the chocolate see also section is broadly similar to this article. As are the chocolate categories. The community has rejected this format every time it has come up. Verbal chat 08:19, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Please show me some links that show that the community have rejected this format, since I'm not aware of this and I tried to show YOU links above that I think shows that the community have accepted this format. --Stefan ^talk 08:23, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

The 'see also' list not even an 1/8 of the links presented here, so it isn't nearly as affective. The categories are an alphabetical mess; you cannot find what you are looking for unless you know the name of the title. What do you have against outlines? -- penubag  (talk) 08:32, 11 October 2009 (UTC)