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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Miriam Makeba article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that South African singer and anti-apartheid activist Miriam Makeba(pictured) was followed by the CIA and the FBI after she married Black PantherStokely Carmichael?
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Hello Vanamonde93, I'm sorry for using the wrong words, but I do not think that parameter is relevant anymore. I may not be able to locate the discussion, but looking at {{infobox musical artist}}, the parameter is now removed from the instructions as now there this hidden category (Category:Pages using infobox musical artist with associated acts) solely created for tracking such pages. I might be wrong about this, but I truly think that parameter is not supposed to be there as it's not even displaying anymore. dxneo (talk) 01:44, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(EC) *blush* re first message: Indeed; the parameter was removed in this discussion, which I've just linked from the category. I've just changed Makeba's article per the instructions at the category page. Graham87 (talk) 03:17, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This article runs on, mixing topics in paragraphs, and it is difficult to follow chronologically. I have no problem with a single sentence paragraph when it addresses one topic. I can make them into two sentence paragraphs. Now I am serking an accurate list of her marriages for the info box person. - - Prairieplant (talk) 19:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree; this is breaking up related material. As the article has been reviewed at WP:FAC, with considerably attention to prose, please discuss substantive changes here, especially if they've been reverted once already. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Prairieplant, can you please discuss your changes here? You've now added a whole section with material that's entirely redundant to the rest of the article, and sourced to a website of questionable reliability. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:12, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, this is a Featured Article and unreliable sources won't be tolerated no matter what. Rather replace them or remove them along with that section. Not sure if I'm missing something, but I don't understand why such crucial information is only on quick facts and not adequately cited in the body of the article. Although parts of that section can be merged somewhere into the early years section. dxneo (talk) 21:50, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's a little unnecessary to cover her marriages in the infobox; she's primarily known as a musician, and to avoid bloat I think that's what the infobox should focus on. Also, there's some fudging of details; we don't know the date of the end (?) of her marriage to Bah; Pillai's name is rendered variously; the marriage to Pillai lasted less than a year. If everyone else is in favor of covering it, though, I can live with it. Vanamonde93 (talk) 00:22, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I found it unusual that the article did not follow the usual structure of Early life, Career, Personal life, Death and other sections as needed for each person. That is why I added the Personal life section. She had ties to the men she married. She moved to Guinea upon marrying Carmichael, as the US threw them out, making her statelessvafter South Africa had already withdrawn her passport. She kept friendly with Hugo Masekela years after their marriage, as he was a major musician. It is good to know she was married to the father of her child, but he pulled away when she had cancer, left them.
The articles on Harry Belafonte and Paul Simon, two of her musical colleagues, have Personal life section and spouses listed in the infobox. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart has his wife named in the infobox. Ella Fitzgerald has her spouses in the infobox and a Personal life section.
I do not appreciate that all my work was reverted without your questions being discussed first, and without you all looking at the articles about famous singers and musicians, her colleagues, to learn the structure for the article.
I think it should be put back. I read several biographies of her to get the facts straight, and all but one of those bios mentioned her 5 marriages. They also mentioned her bout with cancer and hysterectomy, so she had one child only. These are all parts of her life, and tied in with her music. She performed with her daughter, a singer in her own right.
Having her personal life squashed in with her career was confusing to me to read, Some of the personal aspects could be moved out of the Career sections, placed in Personal life, so the latter is not only her marriages. Those were the follow on edits I was expecting.
Listing her spouses in the infobox makes it easy to mark stages in her life. The infobox contains highlights of the article, like the lead, and there must be a section to back it up.
Musicians are people. I do not understand why you want to deprive her of her rich personal life, and all the places she lived, in addition to her performances.
We know, the thing is your source(s) was unreliable and that cannot be tolerated. The information you provided is already spread throughout the article (chronologically). The information was also incomplete as some of the marriage dates were not listed. However, I do think that her spouses should be listed in the infobox as it is really crucial information. dxneo (talk) 23:05, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is also no need for an article to follow a fixed structure. Makeba's musical career was closely intertwined with her personal life; her marriages to Masekela and Carmichael, in particular, had huge impacts on her career. Separating them out makes no sense. It also doesn't make any sense to duplicate the material in a new section with a worse source. This article has been through considerable peer review and discussion: you really are obliged to get consensus before making major changes. Vanamonde93 (talk) 01:45, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
dxneo The source I used is not unreliable. It has sources behind it, footnotes, and was posted to a college English professor’s page as part of college course work. The professor is real, teaching at yet another college. The source I used includes the sources I suspect you approve. I did not consider using that source until I had researched it. I wonder, did you read the material at that source? - - Prairieplant (talk) 22:36, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-4 vital article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
