Talk:Phoenix, Arizona

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Phoenix, Arizona was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
February 21, 2014	Peer review	Reviewed
March 8, 2014	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
March 27, 2016	Good article nominee	Listed
August 7, 2021	Good article reassessment	Delisted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on April 1, 2016.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that a bird grew nearly 4% a year for forty years?

Current status: Delisted good article

United States: Old West / Arizona High‑importance

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climate chart update

Can someone please update the climate chart to reflect the 1991-2020 averages? 2600:387:F:4C11:0:0:0:A (talk) 21:18, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox images

The0Quester, regarding the collage - the photo of the McDowell Mountains is pretty, but although they can be seen from Phoenix they are miles away. I think a photo of someplace within the city would be better, Camelback Mountain for instance.

MB 04:06, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1 February 2023

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

WP:SNOW closed as not moved. There is an overwhelming and uniform consensus against the proposed move, and no reasonable possibility that further discussion will yield a different outcome. BD2412 T 17:37, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Phoenix, Arizona → Phoenix
Phoenix → Phoenix (disambiguation)

– Unlike the recent unsuccessful nominations of Oxnard, California → Oxnard at Talk:Oxnard, California#Requested move 11 January 2023 and Louisville, Kentucky → Louisville at Talk:Louisville, Kentucky#Requested move 24 January 2023, this nomination actually follows the guideline at WP:USPLACE since it is the sole American city (other than Washington, D.C., which is not within a state) with an unnecessary state identifier per list (near the bottom) of the 30 cities whose English Wikipedia main title headers and links dispense with the state identifier. Phoenix is America's fifth largest city and, although there are numerous entries listed upon the Phoenix disambiguation page, the city overwhelms the combined notability of all the others. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:27, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For the vast majority of non-Americans Phoenix (mythology) would be the most common meaning. if someone tattoos a city over a bird i would be surprised. Moxy-

02:24, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose move. The mythological bird seems to get enough hits to deny the city primary status. O.N.R. ^(talk) 02:52, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. WP:USPLACE still specifically states: Cities listed in the AP Stylebook as not requiring the state modifier in newspaper articles have their articles named "City" unless they are not the primary topic for that name (emphasis added), with a footnote referencing this current situation with Phoenix. Why do you think the top of the Phoenix disambiguation page currently lists the bird before the city? Phoenix (mythology) still has about equal long-term significance. And looking at the page views of both articles,[1] I do not feel that the city's article gets that of an overwhelming amount of hits compared to the one on the mythological bird. Zzyzx11 (talk) 03:34, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Phoenix actually already indicates that the city doesn't even come close to overwhelming the combined interest among these notable topics, as it gets 1.72k clicks out of 11.4k incoming visits (15%) and is far behind the creature. I think you have to make a much stronger argument either based on usage or on long-term significance in order to counter this. --Joy (talk) 09:00, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The bird clearly has an advantage on the city + what other opposing editors said. --Killuminator (talk) 10:32, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the bird and the Harry Potter book win. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:45, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Harry Potter 5 isn't primarily known as just Phoenix. It isn't relevant here. O.N.R. ^(talk) 22:07, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Whilst I fail to see the point of WP:USPLACE it is widely accepted. And in any case, the mythological bird is just as notable if not more so. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:36, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. No chance. See Phoenix (mythology), which is more notable than the American city. 162 etc. (talk) 16:41, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Disambiguation in the title is required here as there is no primary topic. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:00, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as this rename request rises from the snowfall. Randy Kryn (talk) 09:31, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:SNOW early close this would have to be the worst RM nom I have seen in a decade plus on en.wp In ictu oculi (talk) 11:09, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Although it does not mention Phoenix, a WP:USPLACE-related discussion initiated in March 2022 at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)#New York and Washington may still be of general interest in relation to the topic at hand. Also, announcement of this nomination has been placed at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Phoenix, Arizona or Phoenix?, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Arizona#Phoenix, Arizona or Phoenix? and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States#Phoenix, Arizona or Phoenix? —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:08, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose in this case disambiguation is needed as its not primary unlike Nashville. The bird probably has more long-term significance and the bird has nearly as many views (65,932) as the city in Arizona (73,377)[[2]]. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:25, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and SNOW close—I'd probably have just closed this discussion myself except that the nominator just put notices on several talk pages, and it would be a little rude for those finding this discussion through those notices to see it closed already. This request is not going to pass by a long shot because the city is not the primary topic for the name, a fact WP:USPLACE explicitly notes, so citing that guideline as a rationale is a big failure in and of itself. As has been demonstrated in several comments, the page view stats continue to bear out that fact. The discussion is running 11–1 at this moment against the request, and I don't see that margin logically decreasing, thus a SNOW close is the appropriate conclusion. Imzadi 1979 → 17:38, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Wikipedia follows what is known as the "comma convention" per WP:USPLACE and AP Stylebook. – The Grid (talk) 17:54, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Phoenix is exempt from that like Los Angeles etc but since its not primary it does require the comma. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:16, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The mythological bird, if anything, is the primary topic. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 02:01, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Citation Needed tag for Spanish Translation

The lede has a CN tag for the Spanish translation of Phoenix as Fenix. Sources disagree on whether the city of Phoenix is translated the same as the mythological creature, in which case it would be Fenix, or whether it is just spelled Phoenix but pronounced with a F (as Spanish doesn't have a ph pronunciation exception). A Spanish language editor could perhaps provide some more clarity here. Fireboltsilver (talk) 16:20, 14 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Placenames usually arent "translated" but we have exceptions in English for well-known cities like Moscow and I suppose Mexico City. Still, the Spanish Wikipedia article is at es:Phoenix, not Fénix, and only mentions the spelling Fénix twice, both times describing it as being used only occasionally. —Soap— 13:27, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved. There is strong consensus to not move the article to the proposed title. Several editors commented that a WP:SNOW close is warranted in this case. Station1 (talk) 22:34, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Phoenix, Arizona → Phoenix City – It follows the guideline at WP:USPLACE and it is the only city listed with a state identifier. The bird is indeed the primary topic but to follow WP:USPLACE call it Phoenix City just like New York City. GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 05:10, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose as both a misinterpretation of the guideline, as well as a made-up name for the subject and an argument that does not make sense. Long story short, the name of New York City is "New York City", whereas the name of "Phoenix, Arizona" without the state in its name is "Phoenix", not "Phoenix City". In addition, I do not know of a single anything that refers to the city of "Phoenix, Arizona" as "Phoenix City", so not only is it not a WP:COMMONNAME at all ... or ever. (Will it WP:SNOW in Phoenix, Arizona?) Steel1943 (talk) 08:01, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. "Phoenix, Arizona" is more typical. Mellk (talk) 08:04, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Nominator, did you mean Phoenix (city)? Phoenix City is a non-starter, not a proper name. The best descriptor would seem to be the present title, even if AP lists it as a one-word city AP is not an encyclopedia or dictionary where the bird flies into the picture. Randy Kryn (talk) 09:45, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, because "Phoenix City" does redirect here. GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 14:56, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per all of the above. YorkshireExpat (talk) 09:59, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Steel1943 et al. The proposed name isn't used by RS and doesn't square with USPLACE at all. Definitely WP:SNOW. ╠╣uw [talk] 10:58, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. As others have stated, "Phoenix City" is nowhere near a WP:COMMONAME (incidentally looking at its page history, that appears to have been originally intended in 2007 as a redirect from a misspelling to the Phenix City, Alabama article before an IP changed it two years later). And in terms of WP:NCDAB, I rather have the article stay where it is at "Phoenix, Arizona" with the comma-separated disambiguation to be consistent with the other articles under WP:USPLACE. Zzyzx11 (talk) 11:04, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose and snow close Nobody uses the proposed format. Killuminator (talk) 15:11, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. There is a Southern place named Phenix City, which redirects to Phenix City, Alabama (the Alabama city's name is pronounced the same as the Arizona metropolis). A film that dramatized the fall of its corrupt leadership — The Phenix City Story — was released in 1955. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:43, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the redirect should be changed back there but perhaps disambiguation (and sending to RFD). Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:22, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose per reasons above. I have lived here for my entire life, and I have never heard anyone refer to it as Phoenix City. GSK (talk • edits) 17:27, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose per reasons above. I have always heard the city referred to as simply Phoenix, never "Phoenix City". In addition, other U.S. cities such as Austin, Texas and Columbus, Ohio have the state listed in the Wikipedia article title. Per WP:COMMONNAME, the article title should be left as is.VSA72 (talk) 20:35, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose fails WP:NATURAL unlike New York Britannica uses just "Phoenix. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:10, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.