Talk:West Coastway line

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I have added Littlehampton and Bognor to the list of stations since the timetable map includes both of them. I have also changed the title at the head of the list - it isn't "principal stations", but all of them! I intend to add to the article so that it is similar to the one I produced for the East Coastway Line: in other words a comprehensive survey. Peter Shearan 10:21, 3 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Name "west coastway line"

Where does the name come from? I mean, I've never heard it called that. I know the touristy areas have the Tarka line and such, but is this label just naming for the sake of giving it a name? Graldensblud 15:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

a)I don't know!

b)we need to call the lines something

c)doing some quick research, for example SEG (http://www.semg.org.uk/)'s archive from "the railway magazine" calls (1946) it "The L.B.S.C.R's West Coast Section", in 1938 its reffered to as "Sussex coast" (not saying which side of brighton) as part of the "Portsmouth No 2" scheme.

When we haven't got a name we just tend to put names like "portsmouth to brighton" line....

Pickle 18:33, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A recent reread of the Brigton Main Line RUS refers to both lines as the "coastway" Pickle 06:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Southern's current timetable for stations along that line is named "West Coastway and Arun Valley" - see here. "West Coastway" (and possibly "Coastway West" if my memory's not playing up) have been used for that line for many years.--A bit iffy 06:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As A bit iffy says, these names - sometimes with "West" first and sometimes with it second - have been used for a long time; I have always known both Coastway lines as "Coastway West" and "Coastway East" (or, more recently, "West Coastway" and "East Coastway", which still sounds somehow "wrong" to me!), and my interest in railways began in the late 1980s. Furthermore, two mid-1980s books use the term in a way which implies it had already been around a while even then: Route Recognition 1: Southern Region (Colin J. Marsden, 1985, ISBN 0-7110-1553-8) states "In recent years, the route from Portsmouth to Brighton and Ore has been deemed as the Coastway line" (page 83); and Surrey and Sussex by Rail (ed. Graham Collett, 1988, ISBN 0-7117-0331-0) makes numerous references to Coastway East and West in the relevant chapters - 5, 6, 8 and 9. Another one I've just found: while the Middleton Press route guide South Coast Railways - Brighton to Worthing (1983) makes no mention of the name, their later guide Southern Main Lines - Crawley to Littlehampton (1986) says this beneath photograph 105: "...the Mid-Sussex Line ... joins the LBSCR West Coast route (now Coastway West) at Arundel Junction." (my emphasis) So a mid-1980s date seems to be the case, certainly for Coastway West/West Coastway. Hassocks5489 20:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've added that in as ref tags (someone who knows how to do it properly might fix it up latter) to the article. THanks for the info. Pickle 10:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are we now able to answer the question that was raised in an indirect way ... Do we need to rename the article?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canterberry (talk • contribs)

Do we want to run one of those moving polls thingys between "Coastway West Line" and "West Coastway Line" (i presume they are the options). Pickle 12:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Distances between stations

In the route diagram the distances between stations was given down to the nearest metre which I think is unnecessarily precise. Taking my lead from the German Wikipedia (the originators of this most excellent diagramming mechanism) I have rounded the distances to the nearest 100m. (Here's an example from the German Wikipedia).--A bit iffy 16:53, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The distances have been converted from miles/chains given in the quail maps, so they are accurate to at least 20m. If you want to round them, then do it to 2 digits.Miner2049er 16:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've started a debate on this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways#Distances between stations on route diagrams.--A bit iffy 17:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, there is no reason not to have 3 digits. After all, there seems to be a concerted campaign to have map coordinates added to the maps. Miner2049er 17:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Against each station in the diagram itself, do you mean? Then that would be over the top in my view and would seriously detract from the legibility of the map.--A bit iffy 17:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Miner2049er, it occurs to me it's not clear what I was referring to in my above question and statement. I was actually referring to the "campaign to have map coordinates added" thing, which made me wonder if you meant someone, somewhere is adding things like latitude and longitude or OS grid refs. to each station in the diagrams - that to me would be a big problem. My question and statement wasn't about the "no reason not to have 3 digits" thing. Sorry if I've misled you, and hope I've cleared things up a bit!--A bit iffy 21:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I view of your stance, I have decided to change everything back to miles/chains ... not exactly progress towards the metric system, but at least it corresponds with the original data for the purposes of checking/verification.Miner2049er 17:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. Actually, I would be against miles and chains - sorry! The reasons are that (a) the UK is (very slowly, admittedly) going metric, and (b) many people don't know how long a chain is. (Also, a chain is perhaps still too precise. Miles or kilometres on their own are too imprecise) As for verification, there's nothing wrong with simple calculations such as converting from imperial to metric.--A bit iffy 17:42, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, you can do whatever you so wish. I have just been reprimanded by Adambro, so I am giving up my contributions to this page. Miner2049er 18:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As I've explained on Miner2049er's talk page, I haven't ask that they stop editing, merely that they use the preview button to avoid clogging up recent changes and the page history.

Anyway, to the issue at hand, I would suggest that it is most appropriate to state the distance in miles and chains. This is the standard measure of distance in railways. Also, I see miles as the most common measure of distance in the UK, where I'd expect most readers interested in this article will be from. Metric just doesn't seem to be used widely in the UK for distance of these magnitudes.

What is the source of this data by the way? Adambro 18:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Adambro, I see your point about miles being the usual measure for the article's usual consumers. I still don't like the chains though. How about if we had decimals of miles - e.g., 3.1 miles, 8.6 miles and so on?--A bit iffy 21:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree: miles seems a reasonable unit, but chains does not. How long is a chain, anyway? --RFBailey 21:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The length of a cricket pitch :)--A bit iffy 23:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

...which is 4 rods, poles or perches! Lynbarn

I am working on a map for the L&B in which I am using miles chains from the Up terminus, with wikilinks to miles and chains in a footnote. (see here). I think it works quite well, particularly for heritage railways in the UK. (Also see WikiProject UK Railways talk for a parallel discussion) - Regards Lynbarn 12:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A minor detail - but Drayton has been placed the wrong side of Chichester on the line diagram. Drayton is in fact between Chichester and Barnham.

81.179.127.186 20:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC) Steve Blighton.[reply]

OK it cna be fixed Pickle 21:15, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, it was then placed on the Bognor branch! Now moved to it's correct position east of Chichester.

The distances have been completely removed as Miles and chains are no longer standard measures of distance in the uk officially it's all kilometres. The information was also incomplete and no metric equivalent was given, the information also clogged up the template in my opinion. edits were made under wiki:bold--Lucy-marie 09:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can you cite a reference to the fact that the railways no not use miles and chains anymore please? As for Miles vs. Kilometers UK is not a fully metric country (and in fact the EU has accepted that it might never be), also remember that all highway signs are still in miles. If the maps are becoming clogged due to the distance information then you might be right to remove all distances.(SouthernElectric 11:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Further to the last comment, the Map is now breaking the page, I'm undoing the edit made by Lucy-marie simply for that reason. (SouthernElectric 11:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Speak to any person under 25 in the street and they will think you are mad if you ask them what a chain is. Britain has moved on form the imperial system and now uses the metric system. Also no other template has any form of distance on it so having the distance is pointless and confusing. please be more constructive and think about joining modern Britain and not old imperial Britain.--Lucy-marie 11:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ask anyone over 25 and they most probably will (even if they don't know it's exact value). There is a case (as I said) for not having any distances shown but if there are distances shown they should be those used by the industry, if you can cite a railway industry source that shows the railway no longer uses the 'Chain' (or it's value) you will go a long way to swaying your argument. As for what a 'chain' is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_%28unit%29 - isn't Wikipedia a great resource... Half the point of a encyclopedia is to reference what one doesn't know. Also please remember that these railway articles are not just route maps for current users of the line but also a research tool for historian and enthusiast. (SouthernElectric 12:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC))[reply]

I'm undoing the reversion (# revision 159146480) that Lucy-marie made to the map AGAIN simply because her version is breaking the page layout (in IE & Opera), also she has removed much valuable historical notes as well as the distance of measurement she disputes. I'm minded to consider the involvement of Lucy-marie in this page as vandalism as it doesn't appear she has had any other involvement in the page to date and she doesn't seem to understand the significance of her deletions to the article as a whole. If she reverts / deletes again I'll be forced to report her action (SouthernElectric 12:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Map formatting sorted by someone else, still dispute (and comment above still stand about constructive/destructive contributions to this article) the deletion of historical data from the map, this article should be more than just an AtoZ route planer. (SouthernElectric 13:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC))[reply]

I am struggling to find a source which can back you up let alone disprove you, I think chains are so far gone it has missed the internet.--Lucy-marie 16:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The removal of the distances by Lucy-Marie is vandalism. The UK has not moved over to metric distances, and the railway uses miles/chains as this is the accepted norm. I intend to re-instate the distances. I also agree, that this page should not be driven by editors such as Lucy-Marie who looking at her profile has no interest in railways, and is expressing a POV which is unacceptable on WP. The fact is that miles/chains are used in the UK. Also, Wikipedia is not just for people "Under 25" .... it is for all users. I am "over 25" and I do not understand some metric terms, but that does not give me the right to remove kilometerages from articles.Canterberry 16:15, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If lucy-marie (a teenager!) continues to revert the addition of the mileages, then I suggest we invoke the 3RR rule.Canterberry 16:17, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Littlehampton Jnction

My own comment removed by myself SouthernElectric 20:47, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Map Template

How does one access the template for editing purposes please? (SouthernElectric 08:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC))[reply]

In the case of this article, the template is at Template:West Coastway Line. In most cases the name of a railway line's route template is the same as the article name, so adding Template: in front of the article title will bring you there. Another way to find the template name and so be able to view/edit it is to click "edit this page" on the main article. In this article the template is referenced at the top of the article's wikitext so the first thing you see is {{West Coastway Line}}. -=# Amos E Wolfe ^talk #=- 09:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]