Talk:Yevgeny Prigozhin: Difference between revisions

Ethnic background

I don't think Prigozhin's ethnic background should be included in this article unless it becomes a matter of comment in more than one WP:Reliable source. Thanks to all. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:12, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Aha! Just as I thought. 107.77.230.175 (talk) 17:55, 28 February 2018 (UTC)JaneDoe

Yes, of course it should not, and especially like this [1]. But the number of sources does not matter. Why it is important? The cited source does not say it. My very best wishes (talk) 19:45, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Elaborate why ethnic background should not be included on this one specific page.. Ethnic background is part of biography. Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 20:12, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

As appears in the diff, this is not his ethnicity, but of his father. No, this does not automatically belong to the page, especially as framed in this edit. If it was important for something, then might be. In any case, you need consensus for including this. See Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Restoring_deleted_content. Thanks, My very best wishes (talk) 20:33, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

The cited source clearly states it, "Prigozhin, whose father and stepfather were of Jewish descent, was charged by the US government with trying to influence the 2016 US presidential election, and the Wagner Group is the subject of US and European Union sanctions."

although I can agree with you that the ethnicity of the stepfather could be excluded, the ethnicity of the father should be included. Ethnic background is part of ones biography and it makes no sense to erase it from this one and only this one page.

Can we compromise and rephrase it to be more in line with the rest of wikipedia? Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 20:39, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Why is that significant? Is he a Jewish activist? This edit reads like a promotion of International Jewish conspiracy theories. My very best wishes (talk) 20:44, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

"International Jewish conspiracy"? Sorry I do not know what you're talking about. It is significant because it is the ethnic background of the subject, as it is included in all biographies. Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 20:47, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

What "all biographies"? Can you please provide any refs/links? Note that the source you linked to is not his biography. Regardless, you are violating this rule: Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Restoring_deleted_content. Please self-revert. My very best wishes (talk) 20:53, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

I am not violating any rules, I have provided proof and source. All persons pages state ethnic background. Please stop deleting information, Thanks. Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 20:57, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

I am saying that few to none sources provide info you want to be included about the subject of this page. Hence it is undue on the page. You said that ethnic background must always be included to BLP pages. Why do you think so? Can you refer to any WP policy? My very best wishes (talk) 21:03, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

I did not say that ethnic background MUST ALWAYS be included, I said it should be included when available, because it is part of biography. Are you biased in this article? Earlier you said "But the number of sources does not matter." and now you say "I am saying that few to none sources provide info you want to be included"? Elaborate.

With the exclusion of "none" since clearly there is a source provided. Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 21:05, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

You distort my words. I said "Why it [ethnicity] is important? The cited source does not say it." My very best wishes (talk) 21:12, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Ethnicity is important because it is the background of the subject. Cited source includes it, 17th paragraph down. "Prigozhin, whose father and stepfather were of Jewish descent, was charged by the US government with trying to influence the 2016 US presidential election, and the Wagner Group is the subject of US and European Union sanctions."

Thanks. Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 21:14, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Of course this is something on his background. I am asking why this particular info on his "background" is important in context of this page - as follows from RS. There is no answer. My very best wishes (talk) 21:20, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

It is part of his biography, just as nearly all notable people have their ethnic backgrounds (when known) included on their wikipedia articles. Why is this the only one that should have that information excluded? There is no answer. Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 21:24, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

You are mistaken when you say: "nearly all notable people have their ethnic backgrounds (when known) included on their wikipedia articles". Where did you get such idea? Yes, such info is included on many pages, but it is not included on many others, even when known. In particular, on this page, I do not think that genetic traits of a well known criminal would be of any significance. My very best wishes (talk) 21:48, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

"I do not think that" that seems a matter of personal opinion does it not? Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 21:55, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

No. I am saying there are no RS explaining why this issue/info worth inclusion to the page. If you could provide sources explaining this, it would be a different matter. My very best wishes (talk) 22:01, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

It is worthy of inclusion because it is factual biographic information. Just like it is included how many children the subject has. Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 22:05, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

No, I would argue that personal family information should be included only if it is important for the subject of the page. For example, information about his daughter is indeed important as follows from provided ref [2]. Otherwise, I would remove it. My very best wishes (talk) 22:25, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Information that he has a daughter is important to the subject of the page because she flew on a private jet? Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 22:30, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

I have no idea why you consider this small detail so significant to violate WP:3RR rule during first few edits from your brand new account (are you a new user?), but whatever. I do not care so much. My very best wishes (talk) 01:22, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

And no, this is not just using his jet. See here, "Lyubov, Polina, and Pavel play various roles in Prigozhin’s business enterprise.". My very best wishes (talk) 02:38, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

great source and information, perhaps you should add it as well? Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 02:47, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

not one single person has made a case against including ethnic background other than "i dont like it". Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 02:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

That's your opinion about others. My assessment, is you are engaged in dishonest pov-pushing, and you lack methodology to write an article, while there is not enough sources for your claim anyway, and it is the case because this assertion is of no encyclopaedical value. --Beibler (talk) 02:43, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

It is my opinion that it is his ethnic background? Elaborate. You are engaging in dishonest pov-pushing your self. There is definitely enough sources to the claim. What is your reasoning that ethnic background should not be included and is there a compromise we can make?

Thank you for finally replying. Fixingtrolls01 (talk) 02:47, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

No, there can be no compromise. 72.66.125.46 (talk) 07:15, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Please, stop povpushing --Jkluvmo (talk) 23:34, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Considering practically every article on wikipedia discusses extended ancestry of living persons, often including origin of great great grandfathers I see no reason to delete the fact that his father was Jewish. The source is better than much of what this article is currently based on. It is particularly relevant in this case considering Wagner is often labelled a "neo-nazi" organization by certain pundits. 2.138.200.92 (talk) 13:25, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not Russian propaganda, you have to follow the recommendations and stop useless povpushing.--Alkse2 (talk) 13:24, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Please do not removed sourced content. Thanks. 2.138.200.92 (talk) 16:23, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

What you doing is a violation of the rules of Wikipedia regarding edit warring. Stop violating the rules. --Alkse2 (talk) 00:35, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Delete the povpushing that you passed twenty minutes before the protection of the article in a dishonest fashion. Povpushing is a violation, delete it. --Alkse2 (talk) 09:48, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Error re: sentensing

The info box is slightly wrong, the sources given are medusa, but another source (the 'full translation of...' one ) is also medusa correcting it's previous claim that he was involving teens in prostitution, it was involving in burglary. Also his sentence was 13 years, not 12.

I don't know how to do the referencey thing so can't fix 213.31.219.92 (talk) 19:43, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

False statements on battle of Khasham

The article claimed that PMC Wagner "attacked US forces and suffered dozens of casualties". This is flatly contradicted by the linked article Battle of Khasham. There was no armed confrontation between the US and PMC Wagner. Its little more than an urban legend which for some reason someone has included in this article. 2.138.200.92 (talk) 12:12, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

I see there is an editor who is persistently including a false sentence that Wagner attacked US forces and suffered dozens of casualties in the Battle of Khasham. Refusal to engage here and continuing to include this false statement in the article is disruptive editing. 2.138.200.92 (talk) 23:49, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Jewish Ethnicity

Is Yevgeny Prigozhin jewish?166.48.16.195 (talk) 17:44, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Prigozhin's father and stepfather were of Jewish descent, it is mentioned in the article. Whether or not he is Jewish may depend on who you ask. Going by Jewish religious law, Prizgozhin is not Jewish, since he wasn't born to a Jewish mother nor has he converted to Judaism. Mooonswimmer 00:22, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

This is WP:UNDUE and irrelevant to his notability, whether true or not. Volunteer Marek 19:53, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Intresting that there is such a different attitude between this article and, say, Vladislav Surkov one... Smeagol 17 (talk) 09:12, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

It’s relevant and interesting to note given that the Wagner group’s Wiki entry states that it is linked to far-right extremists and neo-Nazis. It should be included. 2601:40F:680:7880:9DCE:B02:8EE4:8404 (talk) 16:03, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Because like someone noted above, your basement dweller interest in being honest and transparent DOES NOT supersede protecting Jews. Do you have ANY idea just how dangerous it is for Jews in the world right now? ANY? And do you know how people will take this to mean that Jews are playing both sides of the Russian invasion? That we're war profiteers once again? Does the world really need more fuel for antisemitism? You get your worthless little ego boost. Is it worth risking Jews encountering more antisemitism? More kids getting beat up in the streets? I'm not compromising on this. I will stay on Wikipedia 24/7 to make sure your dumb little engagement doesn't go through. You want to say Prigozhin is a Jew? Tough luck. I'm not letting it happen. When gentiles act in this blithe, careless way, it makes my blood boil. You gave me enough reason and motivation to set up shop here for a while. And believe me, I will not hesitate to go to the admins and the mods to get your ass 86'd. Cherish these posts, basement gremlin. I hope they give you a sense of self-worth that you will never have. You might just be an antisemite yourself. You either know about these problems or you don't f'ing care. That's why you want to insist on putting "Jewish" on here. It's the same pathology that makes people exhibitionists. You're an antisemite-exhibitionist. I am done with people like you. Whatever the cost, I'm getting this page locked. Yevgeny Prigozhin is not Jewish as far as the internet is concerned. We're not going to let this happen; we're not gonna let you win. And I advise you to pick your battles wisely. 2602:FF62:1:1:0:0:0:18A7 (talk) 19:20, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, are you perchance a Navy Seal? Smeagol 17 (talk) 20:42, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

WOW. This really reads like the Navy Seal copypasta. I advise you to go outside and touch some grass, and maybe chill the hell down with the snow.

You really overestimate how much people care about Prigozhin especially in America. There are more than enough Jewish assholes out there to serve as an excuse for an antisemite to beat up someone. As a matter of fact, it does not even need to be factual (see Protocols of the Elders of Zion for one)

Once again, calm down with the stimulants. Synotia (moan) 14:23, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

His father and stepfather are Jewish, according to the Times of Israel, though somebody removed it from the article with the ref still there. I won't put it back since there are more interesting things to editwar about than Prigozhin's Jewishness.

Prigozhin is a surname mostly worn by Jews. (I'm so sorry for you, Ilya) Also confirmed by folks with this surname tending to have patronymics like Abramovich, Markovich, etc. Ruwiki straight up says it's a Jewish surname – although it simply comes from the Russian word пригожий. Synotia (moan) 14:45, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

I've changed it back every time you antisemitic smart-alecks change it. I don't plan on stopping. You're not going to win with your agenda. I will not LET YOU win. 2401:F540:7:2006:0:0:0:9B7B (talk) 02:26, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

I'm of Jewish origin myself you schmuck. Go enlist in the IDF if you're so determined, tough guy. Synotia (moan) 10:04, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

The claim that "His father and stepfather were of Jewish descent" seems to be a case of circular reporting. The Times of Israel's source is no other than this Wikipedia article itself at the time as you can see here : https://www.timesofisrael.com/beyond-ukraine-wagner-group-mercenaries-are-putins-coercive-tool-in-africa-too/ (the other linked Times of Israel article was published one week later reusing the same wording). The original wikipedia source added Special:Permalink/968536208 to back up this claim was this russian page http://www.compromat.ru/page_33163.htm on which I can't find the claim with google translation, and which seems to be an unreliable source anyway (see Talk:Anna_Politkovskaya/Archive_2#To_Vlad_fedorov.

Therefore someone should remove this claim until there is an actual (non circular) source for it. Ketchupsource (talk) 18:30, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

The only mention of Wikipeida in the ToI article seems to be credit for the emblem image Synotia (moan) 19:20, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

The first word of "Prigozhim, whose father and stepfather were of Jewish descent" in this article https://www.timesofisrael.com/beyond-ukraine-wagner-group-mercenaries-are-putins-coercive-tool-in-africa-too/ is a direct link to this wikipedia article Early Life section. The article on the same site currently linked as a source in the wikipedia article https://www.timesofisrael.com/mercenary-linked-putin-ally-lashes-dying-out-western-civilization/ was written a week later by the same authors and reusing the exact same sentence "Prigozhin, whose father and stepfather were of Jewish descent". Both articles are posterior to the wikipedia article claim (which was then unsourced) and are using again the same wording that originates from the wikipedia article. There is no source before the unsourced wikipedia article version linked on ToI. This is a clear case of circular reporting. Ketchupsource (talk) 19:49, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

The page is protected

Should have happened long ago, what the hell is that edit history. Synotia (moan) 10:09, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

You are welcome. Smeagol 17 (talk) 18:21, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Hello the povpushing is still in the article. Suddenly an IP comes to make a last povpushing. --Alkse2 (talk) 17:18, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

As I said, if your IP friends don't look at what they revert, it is their (and your?) problem, not ours. Smeagol 17 (talk) 09:13, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Potential organizer of a putsch against Putin

In the newsweek article, the possibility of him arranging a putsch is described in great detail, i feel like this should be mentioned.

https://www.newsweek.com/wagner-boss-may-seek-replace-putin-coup-attempt-political-analyst-1783110 StrongALPHA (talk) 17:33, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

A possibility that someone can organize a coup? Smeagol 17 (talk) 17:29, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

I get the sarcasm of your comment, but the point here is that he would betray Putin. StrongALPHA (talk) 17:47, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

@StrongALPHA: IMVHO WP:CRYSTAL applies here, resulting with nope. --CiaPan (talk) 12:08, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Kirill Ziminov

Since the page is protected, I cannot edit to correct the spelling of this name, currently written Kiril Ziminov. Please correct. Avemundi (talk) 14:51, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Gaping hole in biography

Reading this article there's clearly a question that goes unaddressed. One can't help but wonder how this petty thug turned businessman and caterer ended up forming a mercenary corps and leading it at the frontlines, a mercenary group now well-known for its efficacy. That's not something that just about any chef can do, in fact usually it takes some relevant military experience. Yet here we read his life story and without explanation we learn that this chef turned into a general of his own private army of convicts. How? 80.68.228.217 (talk) 16:30, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 June 2023 (1)

We should remove the claim that "His father and stepfather were of Jewish descent", and his listing in the "Russian people of Jewish descent" category, as well as the reference to the Times of Israel article, whose source is a false confirmation (circular reporting) as I explained here Talk:Yevgeny_Prigozhin#Jewish_Ethnicity Ketchupsource (talk) 18:52, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Not done. Wiki follows what Reliable Sources state. See policy. HammerFilmFan (talk) 11:21, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy WP:NEWSORG actually states that circular sourcing is not a valid source and should be bewared of so the request still holds. "Some news organizations have used Wikipedia articles as a source for their work. Editors should therefore beware of circular sourcing." Ketchupsource (talk) 05:54, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Non sequitur. Read original reply. HammerFilmFan (talk) 20:40, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Are Ilya and and Yevgeny related?

Prigogine and Prigozhin - Perhaps handled better by a Russian scholar than me. Doug youvan (talk) 11:39, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 July 2023

Edit proposal:

1. Edit position: Introduction section After this sentence: "Prigozhin agreed to move to Belarus and criminal charges against him for rebellion were dropped. Wagner mutineers would not be prosecuted if they agreed to either sign contracts with the Defense Ministry or move to Belarus.[20]"

2. Edit content: As of the 6th of July 2023, Prigozhins whereabouts are subject of speculation after Belarussian leader Alexander Grigoryevich Lukashenko, after having been asked by British CNN reporter Matthew Chance in a press conference, claimed that Prigozhin is still located in Russia, possibly St. Petersburg or even Moscow, but not Belarus.

3. Sources - CNN article and video: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/06/europe/wagner-chief-prigozhin-russia-intl/index.html - The Guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/wagner-boss-yevgeny-prigozhin-russia-alexander-lukashenko-belarus

4. Additional request If it's possible to support the work of the Wikipedia community by adding neutral information and/or sources, especially on hard or controversial topics that could be subject to manipulation like this (edit-protected) article, I would really like to do so. Unfortunately, I am a bit new to the community (about half a year), so I don't know how to apply for this qualification, but I would be thankful if you could inform me about how to earn this qualification. I would be really happy if you could leave me a message on my profile or something like that. If you would need additional information about me or anything like that, I would be happy to oblige.

Up front: My language skills in English might be imperfect due to me being German, but I'm doing my best.

Thank you for reading! NeutralerNutzername (talk) 14:01, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: Article quotes Alexander Lukashenko as saying that "as for Prigozhin, he's in St Petersburg. He is not on the territory of Belarus." Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 14:37, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Was his mom a nurse or dr?

Its says in two different things in two sections. In one that his mom was a nurse and in the other that hos mom was a doctor and educator. Which one is true ? 80.208.65.190 (talk) 19:35, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 July 2023

Shoudn't we add Prigozhin's feud with Igor Girkin and Ramzan Kadyrov DitorWiki (talk) 10:08, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 13:33, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

i am telling that you have to add a section

e.g -

Yevgeny Prigozhin's feud

With Igor Girkin

...

With Ramzan Kadyrov

... DitorWiki (talk) 15:50, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 August 2023

I want to add the titles of Yevgeny Prigozhin in his Africa operations. On July 6, the FSB raided Prigozhin's residence and discovered wigs and many fake passports. All of this was revealed to the public. A few hours after this was released to public, Wagners telegram channel announced the titles and ranks of Prigozhin on African operations, hence describing why he uses the wigs. In PMC Wagner's message they said;

" On the eve of the public in the face of the TV program "60 minutes" of the TV channel "Russia 1" was excited at the sight of wigs found at Prigozhin during the searches.

Why would a person we already know need so many wigs, they asked.

Everything is outrageously simple: for trips abroad. And here are a few selfies of Prigozhin after the reincarnation. "

The titles and ranks are listed below.

1. Ministry of Defence officer in Sudan 2. Assistant Diplomat from Abu Dhabi 3. Senior Lieutenant from Benghazi 4. Colonel from Tripoli 5. Merchant from Syria 6. Field commander Mohammed.

There are many more things to add to this article such as pictures and more detailed descriptions. If these changes are added people can be more aware of the duty of Prigozhin in Africa. Utkutibet (talk) 11:36, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -Lemonaka‎ 02:42, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Death rumors

I’m hearing on social media that his plane crashed and he’s among the dead. Any reputable sources? [3]https://x.com/bnonews/status/1694395180365775245?s=46&t=w--g3vBTVqlOqfreZuTGdQ 2601:3CB:100:84C0:98E8:F503:9352:32FE (talk) 17:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

His plane crashing seems to be more or less confirmed. However we do not yet know if he died or not. 10 people seem to have died according to tass (which to be fair isn’t a very reliable source) 188.150.162.83 (talk) 17:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

was just wondering about this myself. has Prigozhin died or not? It's on the news now too. Serafinowicz (talk) 17:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

according to RIA Novosti all 10 passengers died. If Prigozhin was on the plane it seems likely he died. 188.150.162.83 (talk) 17:14, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

He's dead, BBC confirmed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-665997332A00:23C6:1403:B801:155C:6C9F:5F04:50CF (talk) 17:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

He was "believed to be" on the plane, no one knows for sure yet. 145.53.180.223 (talk) 17:26, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Telegram indicates that there were two planes and that the plane suspected to be carrying Prigozhin recently landed in Moscow on a flight from St. Petersburg 2600:6C64:78F0:8000:A4FF:CE02:1096:D99F (talk) 18:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Let's hope that he's alive - such a valuable and intresting person! It'd be a shame if this Wiki article ends today. GreatLeader1945 (talk) 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

please stay with the improvement of article. your personal opnion is not really important. @GreatLeader1945 ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ ^TALK 18:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 August 2023

This man is dead as stated by the bbc 86.28.172.52 (talk) 17:14, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 17:20, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 August 2023 (2)

He died https://news.sky.com/story/ten-killed-in-private-jet-crash-north-of-moscow-wagner-leader-yevgeny-prigozhin-on-passenger-list-12946006 144.51.12.131 (talk) 17:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

This should be added in it just happened Sunnyediting99 (talk) 17:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 17:20, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Dead

Killed in plane crash today according to Russian Civil Aviation Authority 2603:7000:9C00:6581:60E4:5994:9341:9F2D (talk) 17:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Logically does not make sense whatsoever, he was in Africa yesterday, in a wagner hotspot, do you have sources in RUSSIAN? Vatily.varistokovko (talk) 17:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Not quite. He released a video of himself in Africa yesterday. Doesn’t mean he was there yesterday. Volunteer Marek 17:36, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

• The BBC source used to cite his death says his plane was shot down by Russian air defense, not that it was just a crash. 331dot (talk) 17:32, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

His second plane just landed in Moscow, its possible that Prigozhin is on that plane. 2600:6C64:78F0:8000:A4FF:CE02:1096:D99F (talk) 18:10, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 August 2023 (3)

add to that he died in tver region/oblast which is north of moscow St1vaida (talk) 17:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

sky news have said that just wanna say St1vaida (talk) 17:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The article is being updated with the latest news about the crash. Giraffer ^{(talk·contribs)} 17:31, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Sourcing about death

According to the FT, it seems like Russian officials have reported that a plane crashed, and that Prigozhin's name was on the passenger list, but they have not confirmed whether Progozhin was on the flight. BBC News and Sky News also both say he was "believed" to have been on the flight, so there doesn't seem to be official confirmation of his death yet. Giraffer ^{(talk·contribs)} 17:32, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The BBC reports that social media claims that the plane was shot down. 331dot (talk) 17:32, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

No sources have confirmed his death, only saying he was listed as a passenger on the plane and that there were no survivors. 331dot (talk) 17:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Any official confirmation/denial regarding Utkin also being on the plane? Volunteer Marek 17:33, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 August 2023 (4)

Death is not confirmed, remove until it is RomantiusAegypt (talk) 17:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

everyone there is no way to confirm his death, this is probably some PR move by Putin and Prigozin just like the fake wagner coup Akb0y47 (talk) 17:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: that's what reliable sources say. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 17:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

No reliable source has confirmed his death, it is only "believed" that he was on the plane. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:04, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

WSJ: Plane Carrying Wagner Owner Prigozhin Crashes in Russia, All Aboard Killed

FT: Yevgeny Prigozhin in fatal plane crash, Russian officials say K. Oblique 18:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Both the articles you provided require a subscription to read. Other news sites haven't confirmed his death yet. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:10, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Maksiwood 2: Have you tried internet archive? IT tends to let you get around paywalls. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{blaze__wolf} 18:12, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

That’s not a reason to ignore them. Sometimes, we even cite books. In any case, the headlines alone are sufficient here. And there will always be news sources that don’t write about something. K. Oblique 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Reading the part of the WSJ article that you can see, it seems like they they had the "He was on the passanger list" thing and just ran with a clickbait headline to get people to pay. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Actually, I managed to get past the FT paywall using Internet Archive (Thaks @Blaze Wolf)

Link: https://web.archive.org/web/20230823172612/https://www.ft.com/content/812c9da3-80f2-4fe1-8fad-0b4441d1977a

"A plane said to be carrying notorious warlord Yevgeny Prigozhin, whose Wagner group launched a failed coup against president Vladimir Putin in June, has crashed on a flight from Moscow to St Petersburg, according to Russian officials.

All 10 people on the plane, including three crew members, died in the crash, Russia’s emergency ministry said, according to state newswire RIA Novosti.

Russian officials said a man with Prigozhin’s name was among the passengers, without elaborating further."

So they haven't confirmed it either. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:21, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Religion

He seems to be of Jewish decent, but is not religious himself? Is it possible to add this to his page.

https://c2donghungtl.edu.vn/en/yevgeny-prigozhin-religion-is-he-christian-or-jewish-ethnicity-and-parents 2A02:A03F:8B2C:9200:ADB0:DA0E:B15B:4C57 (talk) 17:36, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Speculation of no use on Wikipedia. — kashmīrī ^TALK 17:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

His Ancestry and racial background is absolutely relevant to his biography. 2600:6C64:78F0:8000:A4FF:CE02:1096:D99F (talk) 18:14, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

we have a photo of the plane

©Geni (talk) 17:44, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

What is your source of this? Maksiwood 2 (talk) 17:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The registration is mentioned at https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/23/yevgeny-prigozhin-on-private-jet-that-crashed-near-moscow-russia-wagner among other places.©Geni (talk) 17:57, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Also a nice photo of the jet plunging to the ground Teenyplayspop (talk) 17:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

"The jet reportedly had the tail number RA-02795."

There is no official confirmation of this being the crashed plane, so it should be held off until either a lot of sources claim that number or an official source (Russian Aviation Authority, for example) claims it. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:02, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure any Russian government source should be considered reliable here. 331dot (talk) 18:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Any source is better than speculation. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Here’s the NYT, citing video and flight tracker: [4] K. Oblique 18:25, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Add the place of his death

The plane crashed in Kuzhnekino apparently Deus vult fratres! (talk) 17:49, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hes not *yet* confirmed dead, and besides, there were not one but two planes. According to some informations, the one on which he was on board landed in Petersbug. GreatLeader1945 (talk) 18:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

It landed in Moscow,it came from St Petersburg. 2600:6C64:78F0:8000:A4FF:CE02:1096:D99F (talk) 18:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Status

Is there a standard on WP for this kind of situation where someone's death is presumed but not confirmed beyond doubt? The only one I can think of is the disappeared status which was used during the Titan submersible incident but I'm not sure what is most appropriate here. U-dble (talk) 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Usually, we fight about it until everyone stops caring. K. Oblique 18:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)