User talk:Hiding: Difference between revisions

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Deletion of article on Ashley Miller

You deleted this article on 10th October on the grounds that Ashley Miller is no a renowned photographer. I don't recall putting this in the article. I certainly agree with you that she is not a renowned photographer. However as a renowned artist, the page i wrote should not have been deleted. Please restore and I shall ammend the entry. From user Nickamery

Recent project stuff

Not sure I'm with you on the move of the clean-up to be a sub-page of the noticeboard, for me it would be a top level page. Also, on the {{WPCMC}}, you've hidden the workgroups in the resources section, I'd rather have it shown. It looks like we're starting to tread on each others toes a bit, I was planning on running through that to add templates, so I guess this is the part where we start talking. :) I had been planning to archive the notice board, but I saw you split it off into sub-pages, which is another way to go. Steve block Talk 18:42, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Ack! Stepping on toes was not what I was attempting to do.

In reverse order:

• I was/am trying to make archiving a bit more intuitive, and to try to keep the "noise" on the noticeboard down a bit.
• Which led to realising that we needed a cleanup noticeboard. (We have cleanup stuff everywhere.) And the "Cleanup" subpage seemed to fit the need. I honestly couldn't decide if it should be WP:CMC/Notice Board/Cleanup or just WP:CMC/Cleanup. either is fine with me. (I toyed with names like Cleanup Board, and even Cleanup Crew : )
• Please fix the "hidden" facet of the template. I have no preference as to what should be hidden or how. And also the font sizing: I am unsure if the resources should be "small" or the same size as the other project stuff. (Though I think I'm getting decent at template editing, I'm still a bit of a novice when it comes to some of the more advanced features : )

I hope this clears up some. I actually was at the point of "one more edit", and then noting the noticeboard changes on the Project talk page (which I'll still do, if it's cool with you.)

Also (unrelated), please note some discussion on Doczilla's talk page about adminship. - jc37 18:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• I never meant to say you were treading on my toes, just that it felt like it, but that's my problem, and hence the message. I was thinking along similar lines as you but arriving at different solutions. I was trying to pull all the clean up stuff together, I've been re-organising the clean up categories, so it was sort of like, "woah", as Keanu used to say. Not that that makes you Bill to my Ted, of course, and now I've typed that it's reminded me of the time Grant Morrison went ape shit at Evan Dorkin for drawing him into an issue of Marvel's Bill and Ted comic. Christ, we're all fan boys somewhere. I was just basing my plans for the comic template thing on the military history project's one, I tend to base everything on their approach lately, it seems to work. I was thinking of suggesting a monthly newsletter, just pulling together the stuff at the noticeboard, just a way of tying us all together a bit better. I suppose my wiki-break is over. I know nothing about template editing, apart from what I learnt editing them. God help me if I had to write one from scratch blind. Oh, and I was flattered by the bureaucrat offer, but it's not my bag and I'd never pass in a million years. All you do as a crat is monitor rfa and close them, and promote them, and I don't want to be beholden to that, I've had my fill of slavishly attending to one process at current events and the portal, it doesn't work for me. And I haven't got in my recent history any edits which demonstrate I know what consensus is. I don't tend to do afd closes anymore, there seems to be enough admins now that I barely delete the odd prod, no-one needs me poking my nose into afd and upsetting everyone. Which isn't to say I couldn't call a consensus, just that ain't nobody going to believe it when the only place I pull it is outta my arse. Anyway, keep on keeping on, and I'm sure we'll untangle these wires and then work out how to cross a whole load more. I think I'm going to kick up some issues sooner rather than later as I go through the unassessed category and redirect a whole swathe of articles based on how I read policy and guidance. It's a crazy place that we have all these rules and that and at the end of the day, you're still playing a hunch. Be bold and ignore all rules are all it adds up to, the rest are just justifications for why you did so. Steve block Talk 20:15, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• Well (trying to sift through the stream-of-conscousness : ) - I have to say that I was/am in awe of your work regarding assessment. Also, there's more to being a crat than RfA (bots, and such), But I understand your perspective. Just wanted to run that by you as an option. And I think that we should be a lot more involved with the fiction MoS. If the MoS is supposed to match "current practice", among other things, we should probably all get "on the same page", as it were. As for the template, I can see about fixing the "hidden" problem (though I may just comment it out until we can fix it.) What was your preference for the cleanup page's name? And when I'm done with the noticeboard, it should be a static page, with all the entries on subpages. (Which can make it protectable, if we ever have issues in the future. Working on making the main WikiProject page that same.) And while we're organising things, once I'm done with this, I think I'm going to look for all the resources and put them all on a resources page. And when I'm done with that, the main page should be empty enough to merge "Getting started" to it. And after that, I want to update our Collaboration of the month process. Anyway, that's all my "short range" plans as far as the Project pages. Essentially, arrange the tools in such a way that we can find them easier and more quickly, without having to look over several lengthy (and daunting to the newbie) pages of misc. information. And I like the newletter idea (I've wondered about that myself...) But in my experience with us at the Comics Project, is that everyone actually does edit more than do Project stuff, so maybe we should make it quarterly instead of monthly : ) - jc37 20:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• Well, I dunno that I did much regards the assessment. I think I was more involved with the fiction MOS when it was started than I am now, I have kind of given up on those sort of pages, no sooner do you get it all straight, have a few drinks to celebrate, put the chairs on the table and start mopping up than a whole new crowd walks in ready to get it all straight again. I don't really know what's the best name for the cleanup page, I'm just thinking I prefer the layout of the project as a comb rather than a tree, if at all possible. Yeah, go through and see what you come up with, I can always get the chairs down off the table once you've finished. ;) What I really want to do is deprecate the exemplars in favour of a page akin to, um, I discussed this with J Greb at User talk:J Greb/Archive Jul 2007#Some things, I'm not sure how valid the links are now,
• WikiProject Novels guidelines on plot summaries
• WikiProject Films guidelines on plot summaries
• WikiProject Soap Operas guidelines on character articles
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Final Fantasy/Manual of style.
• I have a feeling it could be a hard sell. As the co-author of the exemplars I'm staggered at how slavishly they are followed. To me it's just some page I wrote in a spare half hour. It wasn't supposed to be the bible. As to the newsletter, the more article edits the better, see the milhist one, Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Outreach/Newsletter October 2007. Steve block Talk 21:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• Also, I've thought the templates page needs a rewrite somehow. It's a bit messy, I found on my last visit. Steve block Talk 21:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Loved the analogy. (Reminds me of a scene of musical chairs in the musical Evita.) And sure, I'll add those to my "list" : ) - jc37 09:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi-jack

• Damn, my thread has gone and I can't be arsed to cut and paste it all over so I'll butt in on this one. Further thoughts: we could transclude the cleanup page to both the noticeboard and (a newly revamped) collaboration page, as well as it being standalone. We could cull the resources off of the cleanup page to somewhere else. We could also think about transcluding, um, I've lost it, Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Comics and animation into the deletion section of the noticeboard. I can't remember, is it only afd that has each debate on an article specific subpage? You know, I remember when we couldn't transclude for fear the servers would collapse. Plus ça change... Steve block Talk 21:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

  Well, part of my intention was to cut down how much was on the notice board. There comes a point where it just becomes too much scrolling text. (For example, I can see the purpose of "recent creations" being on the notice board, but for the above reason, I placed it at the bottom of the page.)

  And after reading your comments, I think I've finally come up with a good name for the "Cleanup" page. How about "Requests for cleanup"? Since that's actually what's on that page. Requests for comment, or disputes belong on the Notice board, assuredly, but general requests for cleanup or general collaboration, can go on the cleanup page.

  I've looked at that comics and animation deletion page. Transclusion of some kind sounds like a good idea Though I'd prefer a list rather than the whole discussions), but let's wait and see if the animation WikiProject actually gets off the ground first?

  Also, you never commented on it, but do you have any issues with "Getting involved" being merged to the main WikiProject page? - jc37 08:44, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

  I can see a value in cleanup and collaboration merging, since they both should amount to the same thing. I think whilst the afd page is relatively small that transclusion wouldn't hurt, but take your point. As to merging the Getting involved to the WikiProject page, I think you should at least try it and see how it all works. Don't mind me getting my nose bent out of shape, and don't let that stop you doing it. I'm a little annoyed I interrupted you halfway through what you were doing, to be honest, in that it put doubt in your mind and changed what you were doing. Be bold. We can always talk afterwards. ;) Steve block Talk 15:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

  Yes sir : ) - jc37 20:58, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Lists of superheroes

I've been looking over Category:Lists of superheroes and can't figure out why List of Jewish superheroes appears in italics. I can't find anything on either page or the redirect page that would make that happen. Doczilla 22:23, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I put some initial thoughts at Category_talk:Lists_of_superheroes. Doczilla 06:15, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Batman

Hi Steve, I'm replying per your comments on the Batman talk page. I have been doing a long-term revamp of the page in the past year (sometimes working it out on a user page, sometimes not) in order to spruce up what I felt was at the time a lackluster article that did not adhere to current FA standards. I've done a lot since then. The reworking of the "Skills, resources, and abilities" page was one of the last things to go, and I am about halfway done with that on my user page. However, as I have related to Doczilla on his talk page, with the recent talk page debates about section headings and listing every Batman writer and all that (which I feel miss the point of what I was trying to do for months and instead focused on irrelevant minute) I've decided to step back from working on the article for the time being due to frustration. I do plan to continue fixing up the article in the future, but I don't know when. WesleyDodds 01:13, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I did notice your work on Superman, and if you notice the "In other media" section on Batman is closely modeled on the one on that page (By closely modeled, I mean I copied the Superman one onto my temp page, cut and pasted Batman info, and then tweaked and referenced what I needed to. It's a good model.) I have been meaning for ask for you help (especially in rewritting and/or expanding the lead) but you always seemed busy. WesleyDodds 21:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Asgardian-Tenebrae

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Asgardian-Tenebrae. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Asgardian-Tenebrae/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Asgardian-Tenebrae/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Newyorkbrad 15:38, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Amalgam characters don't die easily.

I really hate picking on anyone by "name" but Bluecatcinema won't respond to the notices I put on his/her page, but is stubbornly continuing to insert unsourced Amalgam character information into articles. Maybe it would help if someone else would offer a comment asking if the person would please stop adding such information while we're discussing this at WikiProject Comics and to contribute to that discussion. Doczilla 17:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Vertigo Comics

We're pretty much discussed out regarding the move of the above page. The general consensus is that Vertigo (imprint) is more future proof but Vertigo (comics) is perhaps in line with guidance. You're the only one who strongly argued against imprint, so if you could pop back in and maybe we can get the whole thing squared away? Steve block Talk 10:36, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

You're right, and you're right. I have concerns about future usage, and potential confusion, but I'll defer to "imprint" as better than "comics", at least. If you'd like, I can see about adding a section to naming conventions. - jc37 11:32, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I tend to share your concerns but figure it's a fight for another day, and for me it's not really worth fighting about anyway. I'd much rather we had solid articles at fairly germane names than awful articles at the best name possible and every variation redirected in. I'm happy just to agree to whatever is passing as consensus now and let future Wikipedians clean up our mess. ;) I'm growing wary of writing anything down these days, after I see what people do with all the things I've written down. Only last month someone told me I was wrong, using words from a policy I wrote to prove it. :) But don't let me stop you, you'll probably be better at summarising it than me at any rate. Steve block Talk 11:38, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there another disambiguation phrase that we can use? (And I wonder what DC Comics calls Vertigo...)

Also, I sooo understand. (For example, every time someone points out that what I'm suggesting does not follow comics naming conventions. : ) - jc37 12:08, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

DC use imprint at [1] and there's this copyright notice, although I don't know where it's linked from, [2], which reads "Published by Vertigo Books.An imprint of DC Comics" Now whther that means the legal name of Vertigo is Vertigo Books, and whether you'd get consensus on that as well is something I can't speak to, so otherwise you're looking at (imprint) or (comics). I'd rather go with comics, but... (publisher) feels wrong, (subsidiary) I'm not sure about, (company) or (DC Comics) are plausible but the latter lacks brevity and the former lacks accuracy. I don't know how US law works, so I can't turn up a registration, not in New York anyway, maybe a subsidiary doesn't need to be registered, and they're both subsidiaries of Warner Bros Entertainment. Steve block Talk 12:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'm sold on Vertigo Books. Imprint is just used in too many ways to show "subsidiary". Thank you for the links : ) - Would you mind adding them to the discussion there? - jc37 12:39, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Miscommunication at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Comixtalk

There seems to be some miscommunication at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Comixtalk. I think I answered your question by saying "We can't write a neutral article based on press releases." Maybe you have a good idea for merging this that I don't see yet, but I don't see how, without better sources, we can merge this into any other article without giving this undue weight compared to every other blog that has written about itself an/ore recieved minimal press mentions. And I don't think we ought to have an article that is the equivalent of List of web sites that have issued press releases or anything. Does that make sense? Again, maybe you have a great idea for a way of merging this in a neutral manner, but I don't see it yet, so maybe you could articulate your merger vision more clearly. Until then, I probably won't see a way to cover this topic in a neutral manner without better sources. I'd hate to see all the non-neutral/incorrect information about "webcomics community" "screaming for a centralized hub" and "the first online publication primarily focused on webcomics" jammed into some other article. Does that make sense? Or do you still need to keep asking the same question without answering mine? --Dragonfiend 13:59, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

• You didn't actually answer my question, which is why I restated it. I asked if there was "any reason this article has to be deleted as opposed to merged somewhere where it is relevant", and you answered by stating "We can't write a neutral article". At no point did I ask if we could write a neutral article on this topic. Reading your response on my talk page, it seems your answer is possibly. As to why and where it should be merged, I think that's best discussed in the actual debate. Thanks. Steve block Talk 14:21, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
  • I guess I assumed you meant merge it with an article. What non-article (a list maybe?) do you propose we merge it with? What do you propose we merge? --Dragonfiend 14:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Ah, you're attempting to rebut me by stating we can't add information sourced from press releases. That's the source of our misunderstanding. I asked a far broader and more general question, one you've answered to my satisfaction. As I stated before, issues specific to the article are best discussed in the deletion debate. Thanks. Steve block Talk 14:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
      • I'm not attempting to rebut you as I have no real idea what you're trying to say. You asked me a question, and I've attempted to answer it. I don't think one can really rebut a question. Since I'm trying to get some clarity from you on what your position is and answers from you to my questions, and neither of those seem to be very forthcoming, I'd hate to fill that AfD up with us going around in circles asking the same questions over and over. So, have I answered your questions to your satisfaction yet? Have you provided any answers to my questions? --Dragonfiend 15:09, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Nightcrawler edits

I noted your reverts of my cn tag placement in the article, and it appears you were correct in removing some of them. However, while WP:LEAD says to try and avoid citations in the Lead, it doesn't banish them altogether; I should know, I fought long and hard to have them removed completely, and was unsuccessful. Therefore, I know that avoiding citations in the Lead requires one of two things - either stating things in a general enough manner that the statemetns aren't likely to be be questioned/contested, or to break the rules and ignore the rules altogether. I cited what needed citing. This edit removed citation tags asking for verification of information that either did not appear in the article or wasn't cited within the article. Your next two reverts I am willing to concede might provide satisfactory information about the book (though not enough for the listed artists). Your last revert draws attention to the idea that all of the events descrbed in the ensuing passage all occured within the same issue - and they did not. This is why it seems fairly important that, when plot points develop, to cite a reference point inthe comic. You are free to discuss the matter in the article discussion page, but I have reverted the two instances I have drawn attention to here. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 17:59, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

RFA/Emperor

Now you know how I felt about RFA/Carcaroth (grin) - jc37 20:28, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I felt it then too. I'm another who tried to get him to run a couple of times. It's like having kids, watching editors grow into admins. And then half the time they don't even write. ;) Steve block Talk 20:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Rofl. Well as another that you did nominate, I hope I "write" enough : ) - jc37 20:38, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I think you're the only one that does now. Chris seems to have left, Xoloz doesn't have to, it's just heartening to know he's still here, and I don't think I've spoken to The Tom since I nominated him. Me and him used to be big at WP:CFD, back in the day. To think he passed with a 16/1/2. Those were the days. Steve block Talk 20:59, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure why, but I just had an overwhelming urge to find you a rocking chair : ) - jc37 21:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

To muller a tune, whatchoo wanna go and put tearz in my eyes? ;) Steve block Talk 21:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Awww... (looks around for your shawl, to comfort you...)

Incidentally, I thought that the "smiles" were nice, btw. - jc37 21:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[After giving jc37 a {{smile}}] Might as well complete the set then. Steve block Talk

Now that was nice, thank you. I hope that it didn't look like I was hinting, because I wasn't. - jc37 21:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I feel at this point I must point out I'm a married man. Have a good night. I really should be working, I've been avoiding it since Wednesday. Steve block Talk 21:35, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

ROFLMAO! You must be related to Kbdank71 somehow, usually he's the only one who makes me laugh like that. : )

Anyway, have a good night : ) - jc37 21:39, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Dear Steve,

I'm sorry I haven't written more but you know how it is, one day your turn around and you are now longer the new kids and suddenly your chores seem to be a lot more grown-up and your time just seems to disappear. It looks like now it is going to be my turn to have all the youngsters asking me for advice and to fix things that they've broken or don't quite understand (well if they are anything like me anyway ;) ).

I must admit the nomination came out of the blue - the first thing I knew I'd been nominated. Although I am in a different place now (and have more admin-style experience under my belt) I can't say if I wouldn't have tried to wriggle off the hook again.

That said I'll be sure to write more often and I might even send a postcard ;)

Later,

Emperor 00:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, also

Do you fancy pointing over at Category talk:Lists of superheroes. I asked Doc his thoughts on all the lists and he's posted there, and I think there's some substance in what he says. Steve block Talk 21:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Sure, though not at the moment, as I have to go rather soon. - jc37 21:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Good Job

I just want to say that this (Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Wikipedia:Requests for adminship#View by Steve block) was well said. Very well said. I'm not going to get involved, because I haven't read, nor do I have time to read, many of the other arguments, but you've already convinced me. FerralMoonrender (MyTalk • MyContribs • EmailMe) 01:37, 10 November 2007 (UTC)