User talk:Wafflewombat: Difference between revisions

Re: Siamese twins

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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In the film, the characters are actually Siamese twins, presumably from Siam. It’s supposed to be an archetype, which is why it makes no sense to change the name to conjoined. These kinds of edits give the impression that you might not understand why these terms are used. Viriditas (talk) 02:54, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

It might also help to look at the book and the film script. Viriditas (talk) 03:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Can you please give me a break? I'm trying my best to respond to your feedback and become a better editor. I can't do that if you continue to be harsh and unforgiving in our interactions. Wafflewombat (talk) 03:12, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but I'm still not clear on what you are trying to do, and it looks like you are continuing to do the same thing after our last discussion. You might want to consider working in your user space in a sandbox to play around in. You are welcome to take this article to Wikipedia:Peer review and prepare it for WP:FAC, but if it continues to get worse, I may have to revert to an earlier version. Most people tend to work in their sandboxes for this kind of thing. Please consider continuing your work at User:Wafflewombat/sandbox where you will have a lot more freedom to experiment. Viriditas (talk) 20:35, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

You're saying that adding a photo, adding sources to Further Reading, removing redundant wikilinks, changing one wikilink, and fixing a citation are problematic edits? Wafflewombat (talk) 20:45, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

You might be interpreting MOS:REPEATLINK far differently than me. Those weren't redundant wikilinks. They were used once in the lead (or infobox) and once in the body, as they were supposed to be used. Why did you think they were redundant? Viriditas (talk) 20:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

My apologies. I thought the policy was that wikilinks should appear only once in an article outside the infobox. An editor told me this when I first started editing, and unfortunately I've been editing that way ever since, and nobody has corrected me before. A simple mistake.

If you have valid concerns with the other edits I made, please share them. I've completely held off on making any type of condensing edits on Big Fish. If your aim was to convince me there are problems with my editing style, you have succeeded. I am changing how I edit. Now you need to let me make constructive edits. Wafflewombat (talk) 21:00, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Great, please work in your sandbox to make these constructive edits before adding them to a Good Article. Stability is a major GA criterion, and I will submit the article for reassessment and recommend that it be delisted if this continues. Viriditas (talk) 21:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

You are being abusive, and I will be seeking dispute resolution. Wafflewombat (talk) 21:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

I have submitted the article to GAR. Viriditas (talk) 21:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Note, I have now transferred the problem to the community for GAR appraisal. I consider this matter closed, as I no longer take any responsibility for the quality of the article due to the previous review. Viriditas (talk) 21:19, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Also, to return to the "Siamese twins", that should be restored to the aritcle, per the book, the script, and the secondary sources. Please note the occurrence of these archetypal terms: mermaid; witch; giant; werewolf; Siamese twins. Viriditas (talk) 21:00, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

There's no need to talk about the Siamese twins on my talk page. You can revert the edit and leave an edit summary. I'm not going to contest it. Wafflewombat (talk) 21:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

I shouldn't have to follow you around and revert your edits. You should be mature enough to fix your own edits. These archetypes become character embellishments. We learn at the end that the twins are identical, not conjoined. The notion of them being "Siamese" fits into the folklore of the mermaid, witch, giant, and werefolf, hence the importance of the original term. If you read the book, watch the film, read the script, or read the vast amount of secondary material, this becomes clear. Viriditas (talk) 21:05, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"large-scale Star Wars article removals"

Hello Wafflewombat. I've restored the text that you removed yesterday on the page "Darth Vader", a text that you removed first some months ago. Before you remove it again, I'd like to talk with you about that. I've noticed that you've removed tons of bytes of text from lots of pages about Star Wars and that this behaviour has been challenged several times by other users. I'm not going into that in detail, I'm interested only in this paragraph of this one page. I'm sure that you've always been acting in good faith and that among your removals there were also things that had to be removed or that made the pages worse than now before being removed, and you're for sure a contributor open for dialogue. How would leaving a text that just says 'In country A the name is X. In country B the name is Y.' be better than explaying in short (3 lines, not 10!) why that happened and how that happened? I think that, in this case, your removal is pejorative. Why do you think that text should be removed? Can you tell me your point of view about this, please? I'd like to read your opinion, I can't see what's wrong with that paragraph. I added a sentence about another possible origin of the English name too but it was removed because it was actually a speculation, this is a good reason not to reinsert that phrase so I won't add it again. Thanks for your collaboration! I'm on holidays right now and I won't be able to answer immediately, so please have patience 🙂 62.19.149.45 (talk) 13:14, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for reaching out in good faith! I made a few slight punctuation and grammar changes to the paragraph, but left all the text intact.

For now, I have no problem keeping the paragraph. When I have a chance, I'll give you more details about why I removed the parts that I did.

I hope you're enjoying your holidays! Wafflewombat (talk) 17:32, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I've got some questions for you.

1. Instead of "adapted according to the phonology of the target language", can we say, "adapted to the local language"? It's simpler and easier to understand in my view.
2. Is it necessary to mention that other characters have had their names changed? This is not a big deal, but since this is a page solely about Vader, I'm wondering whether we need to mention that.
3. Is there concrete evidence in the cited sources that Vader is the only character to have the French name maintained in the recent films? And "recent films" is vague, it would be better to say "all the films" if it's true he's called Dark Vador in all of them.
4. What does "Italian localisation" mean?

No rush on replying. Take your time 🙂 Wafflewombat (talk) 17:47, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

First of all, I'd like to thank you for your availability, it's not for everyone on Wikipedia 🙂 The few changes you made are OK, so I'm answering your questions:

1. I concur, the text is better as you proposed, feel free can change it!
2. There's no specific mention to other characters, just to the fact that "Dark Vador" is the only French-adapted name that was never switched to the original (some adapted names were used only in the first film, the others disappeared in the prequel trilogy or in the sequel trilogy, but I didn't go into detail being the page about Darth Vader and not Star Wars), I think we should keep this piece of information, obviously it may be written in another way if you have any suggestion.
3. Yes, maybe we could change the words so that people can understand it easily that "Dark Vador" is used in all films (and TV series, cartoons etc...) even in the 2020s, while about sources I think that the French films themselves or any site talking about them can be a source proving that "Dark Vador" is still used while for the others characters the English names are used.
4. Sorry, I thought that "localisation" had the same meaning in English, with that word I mean the Italian people who edited the Italian version of Episode VII that had to be released in cinemas, who decided not to maintain the 40 years long adaptation but to tell dubbers (and writers of official subtitles) to use the English names from then on, I don't know which is the correct term for that...

Do you think this can be fine? 62.19.149.45 (talk) 07:06, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

I'll use the numbers again to refer to each topic.

1. I changed the text.
2. I kept the text mentioning that other characters have had their names changed, but I altered the sentence structure slightly.
3. The two sources that are currently cited don't support the claims that (A) "Dark Vador" is the only altered French name that has remained over the years, (B) that "Dark Vador" has been used across all media and films, and (C) that "Dark" is used for other Sith Lords. Please find sources that verify these claims.
4. I looked at the Italian source, and it doesn't look like a reliable source. It looks like a fan site without any editorial oversight. We need a more reliable source for the facts about the Italian versions of Star Wars films.

Wafflewombat (talk) 15:20, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Here I am, I've registered this account so that I'll be easily recognisable while writing here!

About the sources, I'll start saying that you can check by yourself that all the information is true by visiting the French and Italian pages about the films, but I've tried searching for an external source too and that's what I found:

French names: here's a recent article talking about The Acolyte where the title of Maul, Tyranus and Sidious is "Dark" (obviously, there can't be "one" source that collects "all" the canon and non-canon Sith Lords, maybe except fan-sites); here's an article about Darth Vader's most recent appearance, that is Obi-Wan Kenobi TV series, talking about "Dark Vador" that is his French name (as above, there can't be a sigle source where it's mentioned each of Dark Vador's appearances); here's an article about Rogue One where we can read "Dark Vador" but also "Tarkin", "Han", "C-3PO" "R2-D2" instead of "Tarkan", "Yan", "Z-6PO" and "D2-R2" (but there're lots of informal discussions on the net about the different usage of French names during the years). I don't think that we need 3 sources saying exactly A, B and C, just sources where we can ascertain the 3 pieces of information we're talking about.

Italian names: this is precisely the site reporting the result about the survey for the character name to be used in Episode III (a huge site about sci-fi that has its own page on Italian Wikipedia) and this is a site containing the actors and dubbers of the characters appeared in Episode III (the main Italian site about dubbing, used almost always as a source about dubbing in Italian Wikipedia); this is an article claiming that the Darth Vader's Italian name has been abandoned in Episode VII (the site belongs to one of the oldest and most read Italian national newspapers) and this is again the site mentioned above but about Rogue One (the main Italian site about dubbing). In these sites it's possible to verify the correctness of the inserted information.

I really hope this is enough but I'll be here if you need more information! Pinkpallin (talk) 15:20, 12 August 2024 (UTC)