Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Che Arthur: Difference between revisions

Che Arthur

Che Arthur (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Sorry, but I cannot find a single reliable source to prove that this person passes the guidelines of WP:GNG or WP:BAND. His claim to notability resides in having been a member of Atombombpocketknife, itself of questionable notability--and while he was a member, they didn't release anything on a notable label, as far as I can tell. Note the COI in the article history, and how typical the writing and the links are for such an article. Drmies (talk) 05:32, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I am "this person" and I pass several of the guidelines. a google search reveals http://music.msn.com/music/artist/che-arthur/ http://www.allmusic.com/artist/che-arthur-mn0000773695 http://suicidegirls.com/interviews/2244/Che-Arthur/ http://www.avclub.com/artists/the-che-arthur-three,38271/ http://www.brooklynvegan.com/chicago/2012/01/scott_kelly_pla_1.html -- che — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chearthur (talk • contribs) 06:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. LadyofShalott 06:34, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Here are the big issues with the links you've given. The first two are just links to discography pages on MSN and AllMusic. They do show that you've put out albums independent of the band, but don't show notability in and of themselves. Of the albums you've released, none of them are with the same company and none of the companies are major record labels. So as far as criteria #5 goes for WP:MUSICBIO, you don't pass that one. Interviews are good, but the Brooklyn Vegan article wouldn't really be considered a reliable source even if it was a full article, which it isn't. The AV Club article is decent enough, but someone could argue that it's a listing on the AV Club website rather than an actual review of the band. It's very brief and while I'd count it as a review of the band, someone could also argue that it is a review of the band and not of you independently of this second band you've set up. Achieving notability for a single artist outside of the notability for a band is rather difficult. I'll see what I can find, but these sources aren't enough to show notability for you. I'd also like you to look over WP:COI, as you certainly have a conflict of interest here. It isn't against the rules for you to post and comment about yourself, but there's the definite problem that you'll likely view things as having more weight than they do and see more individual notability then there might otherwise be. I'm not saying that it's impossible for your article to be saved, just that you need to approach this with caution.Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 08:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

• Weak Keep. There's some independent coverage out there, some of which could be classed as reliable sources. There's a short biography at Allmusic, alongside two reviews of his albums. There's also another album review at Popmatters. It's not much, but it think it just about scrapes the bar at WP:MUSICBIO when you also take into consideration the sources shown above. The COI issues remain, however. — sparklism ^hey! 08:55, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Weak Keep per Sparklism. I did a cleanup of the article, removing anything that wasn't immediately verifiable via reliable sources. This decimated much of the article, but what remains now is relatively sourced by the available links. Now as far as his individual notability goes, there are some reviews out there. They're brief, but they're reviews. I've linked to the ones that Sparklism brought up as well as some others that I've pulled up myself. I also linked to a few interviews as well. I agree that Arthur just barely scrapes by when you consider the sources here and his link to Atombombpocketknife. The goal here is to show that he's notable outside of the band and the sources here show that although he didn't spin off into a Beyonce-esque solo career, he's notable enough to pass muster. I would recommend that Arthur goes through one of the WP:MUSIC members or another Wikipedia editor to do any major edits to the article to ensure neutrality and to avoid any big issues of COI.Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 09:13, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
• Delete or Userify I don't see much left here I guess after the clean-up. But there's a few odds and ends to mention. Let me precurse by saying I worked many, many years as a record promoter for Warner Bros-Elektra/Asylum Entertainment and I'm just going to give an industry perspective. The A.V. Club is not a notable or reliable music industry publication - It's made by the Onion, had been a University publication, and has some serious credibility issues regarding retractions and validity of reviews. The Club is at best a mention source, and is not followed for any kind of validity. Allmusic is not a reliable music industry source, it's a mentions/listing. Splendid zine, Suicide Girls, Out Magazine, Morning Call, and Pop Matters are not notable industry magazines or otherwise. Basically, there is no listed mention in any notable publication sources tracked, followed, or considered by the music industry - the references are basically trivial/minor. There are no charted works at all listed - singles, albums, renditions charted by other performers, etc. There are no notable awards - Grammys, Choice, etc. The are no major rotations at media. There are no gold/platinum awards/certifications. There are no major or significant minor label releases. No major music competitions, or Idol-type wins, places, etc. No TV themes, major radio rotations, or national broadcast segments. No ensemble work of two or more independently notable musicians. Not the most prominent representative of a notable style or scene. Just being in a band or releasing a record is, in and of itself, not enough. Maybe another overhaul of the article could introduce something more notable, but from an industry perspective we are a couple cents short of a dollar here save for ambition. However, that does not preclude consideration when something major does happen, but it just is not apparent at this time. Яεñ99 (talk) 10:44, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Comment I appreciate the insight you have given us, Ren99, but I don't think it's accurate to imply that "sources tracked, followed, or considered by the music industry" are the only ones that can help to establish notability and therefore meet our inclusion guidelines. While I absolutely agree that "just being in a band or releasing a record is...not enough", I think it's harsh to dismiss coverage from Allmusic, The A.V. Club and PopMatters as being "trivial/minor". — sparklism ^hey! 14:17, 8 January 2013 (UTC)