Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Huntington Park, New Zealand: Difference between revisions

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Huntington Park, New Zealand

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NPLACE, it is not a suburb and is it not recognised by Auckland Council nor the NZGB. NPLACE explicitly excludes census tracts. Below is a more detailed comment

Extended content

Huntington Park is a housing development from the 90s, it is not an official suburb, and is not a notable housing development either. Most of this article relies on original research and unreliable sourcing: Oneroof is a real estate website and not a reliable source. The 1998 map does not even show Huntington Park and is original research. The article on the The Hub shopping centre does not mention Huntington Park. The Countdown reference refers to it as being Woolsworth Botany Downs, again no mention of Huntington Park. Guy's Homestead is notable but only one reference involving it even mentions Huntington Park. Most mention it as being within either Botany or East Tamaki.

Traumnovelle (talk) 01:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and New Zealand. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:09, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for the same reason as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clover Park, New Zealand - you continuously have articles such as [1] [2] [3] [4] which describe things as being within Huntington Park, and we would be deleting a well-developed article on some sort of technicality because it doesn't exist within a GIS system. SportingFlyer T·C 17:55, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One sentence mentions aren't able to establish notability. Please make an argument based on an actual notability guideline and not 'I like it'. The article can be redirected to an actual suburb as an alternative to deletion to maintain the content that exists. Traumnovelle (talk) 21:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's clear it's one of the suburbs of Auckland per NPLACE which is one of our lowest notability standards, listed on government websites such as [5]. SportingFlyer T·C 22:27, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing in that says 'suburb', you're using original research to deduce it's a suburb. And official recognition is not 'mentioned on a government website', otherwise roads would also be fair game. Traumnovelle (talk) 08:54, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Auckland. The sources currently cited on the article itself do not show WP:SIGCOV about the place, instead they are isolated events that occurred there such as the fire at the Guy’s homestead or superficial mentions. Prof.PMarini (talk) 23:58, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep. Official census district, which alone would be enough for a keep. In any case, populated placed that can be shown to exist are almost never deletion candidates. To quote WP:POPULATED, Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low. Grutness...wha? 02:22, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From the same notability guideline: 'Census tracts ... are not presumed to be notable'

The relevant paragraph given this is a housing development and not an actual suburb. (It's not even a fifth of a square mile...)

'Populated places without legal recognition are considered on a case-by-case basis in accordance with the GNG. Examples may include subdivisions, business parks, housing developments, informal regions of a state, unofficial neighborhoods, etc. – any of which could be considered notable on a case-by-case basis, given non-trivial coverage by their name in multiple, independent reliable sources. If a Wikipedia article cannot be developed using known sources, information on the informal place should be included in the more general article on the legally recognized populated place or administrative subdivision that contains it.'

And also: 'Even the smallest geographical features usually may be found in numerous reliable sources: you can easily see creeks in maps, sand banks in navigation guides, hamlets in census tables, etc. There may be hundreds of them. They do provide reliable information about the subject. However this guideline specifically excludes them from consideration when establishing notability, because these aggregate sources tell us nothing about why a particular object is distinguished. Still, they do contribute to the satisfaction of the requirement of verifiability.' Traumnovelle (talk) 08:51, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Grutness. Like most cities in New Zealand, Auckland doesn't have official suburbs. Traumnovelle has mentioned at Talk:Manukau#Merge proposal that suburbs not named on Auckland Council Geomaps are not official suburbs, but I am not aware of any statement from the council saying this, and if such a statement does exist, we can change the article to say "locality". Households in the area have addresses in "Huntington Park". Google maps and Apple maps include "Huntington Park", and so does my GPS.
In the "Extended content" section above, Traumnovelle calls Huntington Park a "housing development", but I think that term in New Zealand applies to mass builds of dwellings which have more than one household in each multi-story building, or where dwellings share walls with at least one other. This applies to the area around Haven Park, but that's only about a quarter of the area of Huntington Park. Traumnovelle also says the 1998 map does not show Huntington Park - that's because it's establishing that the suburb did not exist at that date. Before nominating this article for deletion, Traumnovelle made it a redirect to Botany, New Zealand without any prior merge proposal. The AfD was a response to my suggestion that they request a merge instead. A merge may make sense, although merging to Botany wouldn't be my choice, but to delete a populated area does not make sense, nor does redirecting to the city of almost 1.5 million people.-Gadfium (talk) 04:21, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pursuing a decision to merge/redirect not a deletion, I forgot to mention that in the AfD heading, apologies.

Post codes are not indicative of boundaries in New Zealand, my postal address is not the same as the locality I live in. On Auckland Council's geomaps they state about post codes: 'Note that New Zealand Post does not define suburb names or boundaries. In rural delivery areas New Zealand Post defines the Mailtown that is required for Rural (RD) addresses. The Mailtown does not necessarily reflect the service town closest to the mailing address.'

>but I think that term in New Zealand applies to mass builds of dwellings which have more than one household in each multi-story building

A housing development is just a housing development, it's where land is sold off and subdivided into housing. The type of housing is irrelevant.

>Traumnovelle also says the 1998 map does not show Huntington Park - that's because it's establishing that the suburb did not exist at that date.

So when did it exist as a suburb? The land was subdivided for housing since at least 1994 based on a comment I found in a Howick & Botany Times article. Traumnovelle (talk) 09:09, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 21: / Line 21: @@
 *:And also: 'Even the smallest geographical features usually may be found in numerous reliable sources: you can easily see creeks in maps, sand banks in navigation guides, '''hamlets in census tables''', etc. There may be hundreds of them. They do provide reliable information about the subject. '''However this guideline specifically excludes them from consideration when establishing notability''', because these aggregate sources tell us nothing about why a particular object is distinguished. Still, they do contribute to the satisfaction of the requirement of verifiability.' [[User:Traumnovelle|Traumnovelle]] ([[User talk:Traumnovelle|talk]]) 08:51, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 *'''Keep''' per Grutness. Like most cities in New Zealand, Auckland doesn't have official suburbs. Traumnovelle has mentioned at [[Talk:Manukau#Merge proposal]] that suburbs not named on Auckland Council Geomaps are not official suburbs, but I am not aware of any statement from the council saying this, and if such a statement does exist, we can change the article to say "locality". Households in the area have addresses in "Huntington Park". Google maps and Apple maps include "Huntington Park", and so does my GPS.<br/>In the "Extended content" section above, Traumnovelle calls Huntington Park a "housing development", but I think that term in New Zealand applies to mass builds of dwellings which have more than one household in each multi-story building, or where dwellings share walls with at least one other. This applies to the area around Haven Park, but that's only about a quarter of the area of Huntington Park. Traumnovelle also says the 1998 map does not show Huntington Park - that's because it's establishing that the suburb did not exist at that date. Before nominating this article for deletion, Traumnovelle made it a redirect to [[Botany, New Zealand]] without any prior merge proposal. The AfD was a response to my suggestion that {{they|Traumnovelle}} request a merge instead. A merge may make sense, although merging to Botany wouldn't be my choice, but to delete a populated area does not make sense, nor does redirecting to the city of almost 1.5 million people.-[[User:Gadfium|Gadfium]] ([[User talk:Gadfium|talk]]) 04:21, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
+*:I'm pursuing a decision to merge/redirect not a deletion, I forgot to mention that in the AfD heading, apologies.
+*:Post codes are not indicative of boundaries in New Zealand, my postal address is not the same as the locality I live in. On Auckland Council's geomaps they state about post codes: 'Note that '''New Zealand Post does not define suburb names or boundaries'''. In rural delivery areas New Zealand Post defines the Mailtown that is required for Rural (RD) addresses. The Mailtown does not necessarily reflect the service town closest to the mailing address.'
+*:>but I think that term in New Zealand applies to mass builds of dwellings which have more than one household in each multi-story building
+*:A housing development is just a housing development, it's where land is sold off and subdivided into housing. The type of housing is irrelevant.
+*:>Traumnovelle also says the 1998 map does not show Huntington Park - that's because it's establishing that the suburb did not exist at that date.
+*:So when did it exist as a suburb? The land was subdivided for housing since at least 1994 based on a comment I found in a Howick & Botany Times article. [[User:Traumnovelle|Traumnovelle]] ([[User talk:Traumnovelle|talk]]) 09:09, 29 June 2024 (UTC)