Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mike Avery (soccer)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was nomination withdrawn. Canley (talk) 00:18, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Avery (soccer)

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A minor soccer coach with no evidence of notability per WP:BIO (substantial in-depth coverage or multiple independent sources) or WP:ATHLETE (involvement at professional or international amateur level). See also the discussion here andy (talk) 13:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC) Nomination withdrawn - notability has been demonstrated. andy (talk) 17:10, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete WP:BIO states the following: People who have competed at the fully professional level of a sport, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, golf or tennis, except for those that participated only in competitions that are themselves non-notable. Mike Avery does not appear to be a professional. Btilm 15:16, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:35, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:36, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per NOM. Too low a level. College football participation as either player or coach does not meet notability criteria on its own, and nothing out there to show Avery has done anything else of note.--ClubOranje^T 09:48, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I think that NCAA coaches meet the notable criteria. Mike Avery has over 2,000 hits on a google search TheBigJagielka (talk) 00:42, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

* Neutral. Gridiron aside, college football is a lot closer to the major US sports than MLS is. Also, I'm in absolutely no doubt that Avery himself is a professional (albeit his players are not). WFCforLife (talk) 00:53, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The edits made since my last post (1400 GMT on 29 June 2010) establish that he played in the American Professional Soccer League, then the highest level of football in America and Canada, meaning that he clearly passes WP:ATHLETE. The subsequent assertions of notability in his coaching career take his notability beyond any doubt for those (including myself) who don't see ATHLETE as the be-all-and-end-all. WFCforLife (talk) 14:47, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Well spotted. Eliteimp (talk) 16:05, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well spotted - I'm withdrawing my nomination. andy (talk) 17:10, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Where is his appearance data? Which year did he supposedly play for Santa Barbara? they only had one season in the APSL. I see no reliable source to back up such claims. Saying something is so doesn't make it so.--ClubOranje^T 20:12, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's in his biog, cited in the article - [1]. However maybe that still doesn't make it so. andy (talk) 20:17, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"During a four-year span, he enjoyed stints with Real Santa Barbara and Askims (Sweden). He also served as a player-coach for the Indiana Invaders." Full of weasewl words and doesn't cut it for me. He may have played for their third team, reserves or Sunday social side for all that tells me. Every other player that has played professionally has stats quoted on numerous sites. Every other player under AfD that casually claims to play professionally for a club gets deleted unless there is evidence they actually took the field for a competitive match. Are we lowering the bar now? do we no longer require verifiability? --ClubOranje^T 07:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I take your point but I don't think this will be deleted at this AfD so I don't see much point in continuing. If you want to do a non-admin closure on this one and start another one with a fresh set of arguments then let me know (I think that should be OK). There are several other similar articles by the same author that have the same problem. andy (talk) 08:22, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It would be improper for me to close this non-admin as an involved party. I'll raise it at Talk:Mike Avery (soccer) in the first instance. All I want to see is a reliable source, which shouldn't be so hard...if it happened. Cheers.--ClubOranje^T 11:19, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NW (Talk) 08:41, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.