Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 November 23
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November 23
[edit]Category:4th-century establishments in Central America
[edit]- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename/merge as nominated. -- Black Falcon (talk) 22:22, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Establishments by continent up to 5th century were merged to worldwide categories, so there is no other Central America category before 6th century. However, we kept the hierarchy 1st-millennium establishments in the Maya civilization, which is missing a 4th-century category. As for Category:3rd-century establishments in Guatemala with a single member, it seems appropriate to merge this to the corresponding Maya category. – Fayenatic London 15:04, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support renaming of 4th-century category... but surely the 3rd-century category should be part of the trees of both Mayan civilisation and Guatemalan history and as such should be kept as is. Grutness...wha? 00:08, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support per nom. With respect to categorizations of establishments by modern country, discussions are going on and on about it, especially because it often concerns establishments of things that still exist in the modern country. Some past discussions are:
- Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_April_8#997_establishments_in_Germany
- Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_August_25#Category:1806_establishments_in_Poland
- Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_August_26#Category:1908_establishments_in_Poland (nominated one day after the previous one, but differently closed)
- Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_October_9#Establishments_by_country_before_1000
- By and large I think we have insufficient consensus to remove past establishments from current country trees. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:33, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support These involve imposing later ideas on the past.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:10, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support Merge and Delete - reduce anachronism (we cannot name past establishments by modern countries), which seems to be consensus in most such discussions.GreyShark (dibra) 07:51, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Newspapers published in the People's Republic of China
[edit]- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge and redirect. (Note: Chinese and Japanese wikipedias still maintain the distinction.) – Fayenatic London 11:57, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Since PRC is redirected to China, no need to have two cat. Matthew_hk tc 13:28, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Rename several years ago we decided China was the common name for the PRC. This has become even more the case as time has progressed.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:11, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Newspapers published in the Republic of China
[edit]- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 11:07, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: After several discussion, Republic of China is redirected to Taiwan, while pre-1949 China was in the namespace Republic of China (1912–1949). Since inside the cat was Taiwanese newspaper only, including Kinmen Daily News and Matsu Daily that located outside Taiwan island but controlled by Taiwan (Republic of China). Matthew_hk tc 13:19, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support -- We had a long argument and decided that we would use Taiwan, not "Republic of China" for the present republic. Peterkingiron (talk) 00:25, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- Rename since this has become standard Wikipedia usage.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:12, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Mammals of Benin
[edit]- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge all. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:50, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Benin to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Burkina Faso to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Ivory Coast to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of the Gambia to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Ghana to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Guinea to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Guinea-Bissau to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Liberia to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Mali to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Mauritania to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Niger to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Nigeria to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Senegal to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Sierra Leone to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Propose merging Category:Mammals of Togo to Category:Mammals of West Africa
- Nominator's rationale: WP:NON-DEFINING - many species (e.g. Senegal bushbaby) are found in many countries. Example of similar CFD: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_July_23#Category:Mammals_of_Algeria. Note: Many of these categories contain a list article which is more comprehensive than the category and is also in a country category such as Category:Lists of biota of Mali (so double-upmerge is unnecessary). DexDor (talk) 12:45, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support -- No need to split biota by country, except where they are unique to the country. Peterkingiron (talk) 00:28, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support although I question if even the West Africa category is drawing unneccesarily close boundaries.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:12, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
Question: @DexDor, Peterkingiron, and Johnpacklambert: Should these categories also be upmerged to Category:Vertebrates of Benin, etc.? -- Black Falcon (talk) 04:28, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
- No, if we decide to categorise articles about species of mammals by regions rather than by small (on a global scale) countries (that often aren't even mentioned in the article text) then these articles should not be upmerged to the vertebrates-of-country parents. The vertebrates-by-country categories should also be Cfded, but for logistical reasons I'm dealing with this overcategorization in manageable chunks. Also, upmerging (each time) to country categories for the next level up in the tree of life (and then deleting) would result in more watchlist noise on the articles. We could (assuming this Cfd is closed as merge) put a note on the v-of-c categories along the lines of "Mammals should not be included here - see <CFD>.", but (1) the sort of editors who add these category tags to articles (many of whom are now blocked anyway) probably won't read/obey such a note, (2) we haven't generally done that with previous similar CFDs (some of which are listed here), (3) any such note would only last until that level is deleted and (4) it would add more complexity to the process of deleting these categories. DexDor (talk) 09:38, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
- No Veribrates by country should also be eliminated. Where a species has a widespread range, providing a category for each country where it occurs creates category clutter. The countries in question may cover several climatic zones, each with their own indigenous flora and fauna. We might split West Africa into Tropical West Africa, the Sahel, and there may be a zone between, but the distribution of biota does not respect modern political boundaries. Thus the category structure should follow distribution zones, not political boundaries. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:41, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Birds of Cordillera Neovolcanica Mexico
[edit]- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge all. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:54, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Birds of Cordillera Neovolcanica Mexico to Category:Birds of Mexico
- Propose merging Category:Birds of the Baja California Peninsula to Category:Birds of Mexico
- Propose merging Category:Migratory birds of Southern Mexico to Category:Birds of Mexico
- Propose merging Category:Native birds of Eastern Mexico to Category:Birds of Mexico
- Propose merging Category:Native birds of Central Mexico to Category:Birds of Mexico
- Propose merging Category:Native birds of Northeastern Mexico to Category:Birds of Mexico
- Propose merging Category:Native birds of Western Mexico to Category:Birds of Mexico
- Propose merging Category:Birds of the Gulf of California to Category:Birds of Mexico
- Nominator's rationale: WP:NON-DEFINING - most of the articles in these categories (e.g. Elf Owl or Green jay) make no mention of which parts of Mexico the species is found in. Note: After merging it may be appropriate to create subcategories e.g. for Parakeets of Mexico. Example previous discussion: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_August_29#Category:Birds_of_Suriname. DexDor (talk) 10:52, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support -- No need to split biota by province or region, except where they are unique to the area. Peterkingiron (talk) 00:29, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support although I question if even Mexico is too specific a geographical area.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:13, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- Delete These are not attested geographical areas (neither politically nor environmentally). --Couiros22 (talk) 17:35, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
Question: @DexDor, Peterkingiron, Johnpacklambert, and Couiros22: Should these categories also be upmerged to Category:Fauna of the Baja California Peninsula, etc.? -- Black Falcon (talk) 04:29, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
- No, per response in CFD above. A further reason that applies to some of these categories is this AFD. DexDor (talk) 16:21, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
- No, for reasons given for Benin and West Africa above. If they occur only in certain regions, there can be a category for indigenous species. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:44, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Vagrant birds of Africa
[edit]- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete all.
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of Africa (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of East Africa
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of North Africa
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of Southern Africa
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of West Africa
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of the British Isles
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of the Americas
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of Central America
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of South America
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of Antarctica
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of Eurasia
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of Asia
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of East Asia
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of South Asia
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of Southeast Asia
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of Western Asia
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of Oceania
- Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of Africa (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Nominator's rationale: From the Vagrancy (biology) article: "Vagrancy is a phenomenon in biology whereby individual animals appear well outside their normal range" (e.g. see Pine flycatcher). That is a WP:NON-DEFINING characteristic of a bird species so these categories should be deleted. However, most of the articles that have been placed in these categories appear to be for birds that spend part of the year in the specified area - thus perhaps these categories should be merged into the corresponding Birds of (region) categories. DexDor (talk) 09:03, 23 November 2017 (UTC) DexDor (talk) 15:23, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Hi, the reason I chose the term "vagrant birds" was because I felt there was a need for a generic term to designate the seasonal range of any bird, i.e. wintering or summer (even though the latter are extremely rare)
- 1. therefore perhaps a renaming such as "seasonal birds of..." or "wintering birds of..." would be more appropriate ?
- 2. whilst also maintaining them in a separate sub-cat. of "Birds of Africa" --Couiros22 (talk) 11:31, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Are you suggesting that a category such as Category:Birds of Africa should be subdivided into birds that spend the whole year in that region and birds that only spend the winter in that region (remembering that we are trying to categorize here, not describe)? Have you asked WT:BIRDS for their thoughts on this categorization? If sub-categorization below the region is needed then isn't it better to categorize by type of bird (e.g. Category:Parrots of Africa)? DexDor (talk) 15:32, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- The main regional bird categories currently include a sub-category for non-native birds (neither breeding nor resident), either corresponding to their wintering or summer range ; IMO only the title "vagrant birds" should be adjusted.
- Categories with a numerous amount of entries, e.g. Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa also include bird families. --Couiros22 (talk) 19:33, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Hi, the reason I chose the term "vagrant birds" was because I felt there was a need for a generic term to designate the seasonal range of any bird, i.e. wintering or summer (even though the latter are extremely rare)
- delete being a vagrant in any area is not a significant characteristic of a species. Peterkingiron (talk) 00:31, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- Delete These categories are against Wikiproject Birds policy and pointless Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:58, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- @ Peterkingiron : they are not "vagrant birds", they are "wintering birds" (the issue is the title of each cat., not the content) hence what would be wrong in renaming them likewise ?
- @ Jimfbleak : you have no pragmatic assessment :-( --Couiros22 (talk) 08:04, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- Delete we should not categorize fluke, irregular apparances of animals.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:13, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Beetles of France
[edit]- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 19:00, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Beetles of France to Category:Endemic beetles of Metropolitan France
- Nominator's rationale: To align with category text, parent categories and (current) content. Note: This rename would reverse an out-of-process rename. DexDor (talk) 08:29, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Rename – only the 'endemic' categories have any validity for beetles in a mainland territory. Oculi (talk) 10:58, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support -- I am surprised that there should be many that are endemic only to France. Peterkingiron (talk) 00:33, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- Delete Being in France is not defining to the bettles. I also very strongly oppose the unsupportable attempts to treat Martinue, etc as not France. What next Category:Endemic beetles of the continental United States.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:15, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- Comment: I have added a banner for WikiProject Insects which may notify more editors via the Alerts service, and notified Gjs238 (talk · contribs), who moved the category out-of-process with the comment follow naming convention of other country beetle categories. Let's keep this open a few more days. – Fayenatic London 11:08, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Psalm 18
[edit]- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete all. – Fayenatic London 11:01, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
- Propose deleting Category:Psalm 18 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Psalm 37 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Psalm 85 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Psalm 118 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Psalm 18 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT, they only contain the eponymous article and a redirect to, guess what, the same eponymous article. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:39, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support -- I would have said merge, but the articles seem to be in the upmerge target. Peterkingiron (talk) 00:36, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- delete none of these categories contain more than one actual article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:16, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Late ancient/early medieval states and territories (dis)established by year
[edit]- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. -- Black Falcon (talk) 04:31, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:States and territories established in 220 to Category:States and territories established in the 220s and Category:220 establishments
- Propose merging Category:States and territories established in 221 to Category:States and territories established in the 220s and Category:221 establishments
- Propose merging Category:States and territories established in 224 to Category:States and territories established in the 220s and Category:224 establishments
- Nominator's rationale: merge to decade level per WP:SMALLCAT, many of these categories contain only one or two articles. Note: some of the categories are listed here with only one merge target, that is because the articles in these categories are already in a Category:YYY establishments in Europe or Category:YYY establishments in Asia category. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:16, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Comment: Like the precedent Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_June_3#States_and_territories_by_year_(early_history), this would require changes to templates, as these categories are mainly populated via Template:Infobox former country. I don't know who did the change before; I can't see it in the history of that template, but perhaps it was a sub-template. – Fayenatic London 22:46, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support -- Another case of category twigs (not trees). Peterkingiron (talk) 00:39, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- Merge There is no evidence these categories will ever become reasonably large.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:17, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
- Support merge into both States and territories decade categories and appropriate establishments by year cats (where many of the articles started out at). Greenshed (talk) 03:15, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- Note on implementation: I think Template:Infobox former country/autocat will automatically use the decade category once the year category is deleted. – Fayenatic London 23:11, 13 January 2018 (UTC)