Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies

WikiProject LGBT studies

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Category:Cisgender drag performers?

Would Category:Cisgender drag performers be an appropriate category? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I support it. though it may open the door/make a room for other categories such as Category:Cisgender LGBT people, and Category:Transgender heterosexual people (plus Category:LGBT heterosexual people/Category:Straight LGBT people).

Also, would that category include cis AFAB queens or only drag queens who are cis men? --MikutoH ^talk! 22:54, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Gender variance#Requested move 12 July 2024

The discussion is here. So far there's only 1 comment so if any of you want to discuss this please do so. Urchincrawler (talk) 18:59, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Request for comment: Gay or Lesbian

Hello. Would you please comment on Talk:Sonya Deville#Gay or lesbian (again)? It is about professional wrestler Sonya Deville and her identity; e.g. calling her gay or gay female wrong (based on sources)? Thanks for the help and sharing your comments. --Mann Mann (talk) 08:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Queer.pl

Dear Friends.

I just translated article about Queer.pl from Polish into English. As usually, English is not my native language - can somebody view the article's language, pretty please? ;-)

Best wishes -- Kaworu1992 (talk) 22:48, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi I just read through it and I'm a bit confused about this sentence: "The website supports events such as pride parades in Warsaw and Kraków and participates in public debate about topics such as civil partnership, coming out and outing."

How does a website participate in public debate? Does it host public debates on their site, or are the people who run it debating these issues? Urchincrawler (talk) 00:15, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Intersex and Intersex and LGBT

The discussion is here. It currently only has one comment, may of interest to members of this WikiProject. I look forward to your thoughts there. Historyday01 (talk) 23:57, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Beira's Place

It feels like this wildly anti-trans project of Rowling's has rather glowing coverage on wiki (I think it also has a brief discussion in J. K. Rowling) Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 8.9% of all FPs.} 01:19, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Proposed merger

A merger of List of animated series with LGBT characters: 2000–2004 and List of animated series with LGBT characters: 2005–2009 has been proposed. If you are interested in participating in this discussion, please add your comments at Talk:List of animated series with LGBT characters: 2000–2004#Merge proposal. Thanks. Historyday01 (talk) 02:43, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Imane Khelif

Does the members of WikiProject LGBT studies think that the article about Imane Khelif is within the scope of this Wikiproject?--Trade (talk) 03:51, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

No. She is not publicly L, G, B, or T. Funcrunch (talk) 06:06, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Regardless of the fact that Khelif is a cisgender endosex woman, the harassment campaign against her feels like a queer studies topic, given its obvious transphobic and interphobic motivations, and being propagated (at least in the west) by prominent TERFs and transvestigators. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 06:48, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Put more practically, it is an article that members of this project would be interested in watching and contributing to. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 06:52, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Interestingly enough most people in her home country seems to be defending her. Said campaign is pretty much just a Western thing Trade (talk) 13:03, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

It seems so. But, yes, I think it would be a good topic for members of this project to contribute to. Historyday01 (talk) 14:36, 3 August 2024 (UTC) Update: I no longer support this statement.--Historyday01 (talk) 17:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

You're not wrong, but I am concerned that tagging her article with the WikiProject LGBT studies category would imply to most readers that we are considering her to be a member of the LGBT community. Funcrunch (talk) 16:08, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I think that raising the issue here on the talk page has drawn sufficient attention from active project members, making the tagging unnecessary for immediate attention, and that the issue of so-tagging might be seen the same as putting her in an LGBT category is sufficient for us to say "we don't need to tag this time". -- Nat Gertler (talk) 16:23, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Shouldn't all the other straight cisgendered people be disallowed from tagging then? Otherwise it just feels a bit arbitrary Trade (talk) 16:35, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Or perhaps a case of context matters. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:48, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Not necessarily. If Ex-Senator Brenda Goldstarstraight who wrote the Federal "Gay is Cool" amendment and is now the host of the lesbian debate program Dykotomy gets tagged like that, well, she is someone who has chosen to associate herself with the LGBT grouping. Such is not the same for Khelif, who as far as I can tell has done nothing to associate herself with LGBT, it is merely something that has been weaponized against her. And as I said, Khelif is now someone who has been brought up in discussion on this board, so she doesn't need that tagging merely to draw the attention of this project's editors. So no, my statement is not a one-size-fits-all statement, it is directed at this very specific question, and not arbitrarily so. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 17:43, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

For the interested, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Wikiproject tags on biographies of living people from 2010. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:58, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

That makes it very broad in terms of the ability to add WikiProject tags to biographies of living people. Historyday01 (talk) 20:47, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

My default assumption is that most readers don't look at the talkpage, but your point may have some merit in a wider sense. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:45, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps I should have said "most editors". Funcrunch (talk) 17:28, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Then it gets more murky, but I hope most editors would see a difference between a WikiProject talkpage banner and an article category. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:39, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I think, to the majority of readers, tagging her talk page as a subject of interest to an LGBT Wikiproject is the same thing as saying she is LGBT when she is not identified as such. BLP concerns override the desires of a few members of a Wikiproject especially since it isn't a consensus here that this article should be tagged. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:54, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

to the majority of readers, tagging her talk page as a subject of interest to an LGBT Wikiproject is the same thing as saying she is LGBT when she is not identified as such--evidently this is the case based on people's replies in the ANI thread, although for the life of me I can't understand why people are reading it this way. It's WikiProject LGBT studies for a reason, a field which covers all questions of how individuals and societies relate to gender and sexual diversity, including how these phenomena affect non-queer people as well. A cis athlete who is attacked for her perceived transness absolutely falls within the realm of LGBT studies and is particularly an item of study precisely because she's not trans; I would expect to see papers about her treatment appear in peer-reviewed LGBT studies journals over the coming months. I understand people are justifiably taking BLP into consideration, but I feel like we are being overly accommodating to what fundamentally boils down to a failure of reading comprehension (or else an anticipated actively harmful failure of reading comprehension on the part of others) _signed, Rosguill ^talk 20:44, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Past consensus has always been that WP:LGBT can express interest in articles on non-LGBTQ+ individuals (eg, eg) in order to be notified of discussions, particularly where there is relevant content in the article. It is worth noting that the Wikiproject banner has been worded with exactly this concern in mind, and allows a note explaining relevance where it may be unclear (e.g., "While the subject is a cisgender woman, the article contains content of interest to the WikiProject, specifically content related to a harassment campaign falsely claiming that she is transgender.")

There would need to be a clear consensus among WikiProject participants that the subject is of interest, though.--Trystan (talk) 21:08, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I think we might need a note explaining relevance here. I would support the WikiProject banner being added to Khelif's page. Historyday01 (talk) 00:14, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

That's not how I see it, but I may very well be in the minority. To me, "This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBT studies" says something else. But again, I don't think the majority of readers look at talkpages. Compare [1][2]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

There is Wikipedia:WikiProject Gender studies (albeit inactive, apparently) if she doesn't fit under this project Iostn (talk) 21:32, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Being discussed at WP:ANI#User is threatening to report me for simply adding relevant Wikiproject tag to talk page Doug Weller talk 15:25, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

This is a bit off-topic, but I looked around for something to compare to. Per article-content, I think WikiProject LGBT studies would fit the talkpage of Harry Styles. Am I right or wrong? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:35, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I think that's different. he already said he rejects labels, so he is technically non-heterosexual.

But that's debatable, because many transphobes reject their cisness. Would they be non-cisgender? Web-julio (talk) 20:33, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

There might be some model of analysis where that category's useful. The labels used by researchers and those by anyone else needn't align. Remsense诉 20:52, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

It looks like that discussion has ended / been closed and now the discussion has moved to Talk:Imane Khelif/Archive 1#WikiProject LGBT studies. I would suggest interested individuals of this WikiProject comment there if they see fit. Also, another relevant discussion, to this WikiProject, is: Talk:Imane Khelif/Archive 1#"Prominent anti-trans figures". Not sure if there is more on that talk page of interest or not. Historyday01 (talk) 00:20, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

What category? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:48, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Does that mean you think the WikiProject LGBT studies template would fit on the Harry Styles talkpage, since Talk:Non-heterosexual has it? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:39, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

No, she is not publicly LGBT. TarnishedPath^talk 23:28, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Update: I have proposed possible text for Imane Khelif's page regarding the present controversy. If you are interested, please weigh in below my comment which proposes the text. Thanks. Talk:Imane Khelif/Archive 1#WikiProject LGBT studies.Historyday01 (talk) 13:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC) Update: The text has been stricken, so this comment NO longer applies.--Historyday01 (talk) 17:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

What you're proposing, for the sole purpose of advertising the interest of a handful of editors, would give UNDUE weight to the irrelevant views of those who have no say on the subject (that's not their expertise). M.Bitton (talk) 13:50, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

If you are going to insist this comment remain, fine. I still stand by what I said: that it is inflammatory. I also suggest you restrict your discussion to Talk:Imane Khelif, as it would be more productive to all involved. Thanks. Historyday01 (talk) 14:28, 4 August 2024 (UTC) Update: I no longer agree with this statement.--Historyday01 (talk) 17:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Don't play games with me: the fact that you removed my comment suggests some kind of ownership over this talk page. M.Bitton (talk) 14:31, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

LOL. I have no ownership over this page, obviously. Not at all. In fact, there are many LGBTQ discussions I don't even participate in. Sometimes I only do reversions of content to make a point about an edit. That's what I did here. That's it. While I still have my own views about your comment, I'm not going to contest your restoration of your comment. Historyday01 (talk) 14:35, 4 August 2024 (UTC) Update: I no longer agree with this statement, because I believe it was too hardnosed and harsh, even though I obviously follow existing Wikipedia rules.--Historyday01 (talk) 17:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

You can contest it all you want, but if you ever dare to redact my comments again, you'll take a trip to ANI. M.Bitton (talk) 14:36, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Sigh. I sure hope to never cross paths with you again. I'm not sure why you are openly threatening another user on here. Yikes. Please do not ever contact me again about ANY topic. Thanks. Historyday01 (talk) 14:48, 4 August 2024 (UTC) Update: I no longer agree with this statement, as it was unnecessarily harsh.--Historyday01 (talk) 17:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

As a neutral party not involved in this conversation, I am commenting to make you aware of WP:OTHERSCOMMENTS. The basic rule, with exceptions outlined below, is to not edit or delete others' posts without their permission. I hope this helps you understand what went wrong here, and helps you avoid making similar mistakes in future. Best regards, JustAnotherCompanion (talk) 15:01, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing that, that's very helpful. I'll save it somewhere so I remember it next time. Looking at that rule, I do think their comment isn't necessarily a "harmful post...including personal attacks, trolling, and vandalism" but... I would say it is uncivil and arguably "disruptive." However, that section also states that "posts that may be considered disruptive in various ways are another borderline case and are usually best left as-is or archived." So, their comment would fall under the latter and shouldn't have been removed. Historyday01 (talk) 15:09, 4 August 2024 (UTC) Update: I no longer agree with this statement.--Historyday01 (talk) 17:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I also suggest you WP:AGF and WP:ASPERSIONS. M.Bitton (talk) 15:14, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

It seems to be "uncivil" and "disruptive" only to the degree that it disagrees with what you're aiming for, and disagreement is to be expected in a discussion. This is nowhere near a borderline case. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 15:15, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate your comment, but I do not wish to discuss this matter any further. I will say that I will make sure to do better in the future. I'm not sure how much longer I will be on here, to be honest. I may even permanently retire by December 31st, the ways things are going. It almost seems more of a drag to do edits these days. I wish I had the energy and time that I had even a few years ago, sigh.Historyday01 (talk) 17:11, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again for this. I updated my talk page with excerpts from that rule you mentioned and some other related ones, just to remind myself in the future, so I can refer back to it.--Historyday01 (talk) 17:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I think it's probably best to just not tag her for our project. If she speaks about transphobia or intersex rights or such as a response to this, then sure, but I think it's generally just preferred not to tag someone with a WikiProject because of a harrassment campaign. Everyone here now knows this article exists too, so the article is getting plenty of attention from our project :) ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 06:58, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

According to LGBT rights in Algeria, homosexual activity in Algeria is a criminal offence. So anything on Wikipedia which suggests that Imane Khelif is L, G, or B may be a danger to her. So I strongly oppose any reference to this project being added to her article. Sweet6970 (talk) 11:47, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Have you read the Imane Khelif article? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:43, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

I read the lead. I am not interested in boxing. What is your point, please? Sweet6970 (talk) 14:37, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

My point is that considering the article content, a banner on the talkpage, where comparatively few readers look, in a collapsed section, saying "This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBT studies", will not increase her danger from the WP-direction. It is quite possible there are/will be people who became aware of this "thing" via WP, but the template will not be be where they notice it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:46, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

The talk page section was collapsed temporarily and wouldn't remain that way. As Maplestrip said, everyone here now knows this article exists, so the article is getting plenty of attention from this project. Insisting on tagging it (for no valid reason) despite the ramifications that it could have on the life of living person makes no sense whatsoever. M.Bitton (talk) 15:13, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

The valid reason is that it's common practice to use these templates when they fit, presumably because they can bring interested attention and whatnot. I'm not insisting (and this is the wrong talkpage to insist anyway), consensus will be what it will be, but even uncollapsed, the template stating "This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBT studies" will not increase her danger from the WP-direction.

Sure, the discussion here has brought some current attention, but it will be archived fairly soon, and the article will not have whatever potential benefits the template can bring in the longer run (I'm not too clear on what they are, tbh). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:30, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

That's your point of view, that I happen to disagree with. As far as I'm concerned, her life is far more important than the potential interest of some editors in her. M.Bitton (talk) 15:34, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

I'll get back to you when I've found the policy that says you can't disagree with me ;-) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:35, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply of 14:46 above. I was and am aware that this discussion is about whether to refer to this project on the Talk page of the article. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. I am opposed to having this project mentioned anywhere on that Talk page, for the reasons I have already given. I see that other editors have the same view. Sweet6970 (talk) 17:07, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

This is a good way to put it. and what you are saying makes sense. Historyday01 (talk) 12:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Discussion on BLP article

There's a discussion at Talk:Aubrey Plaza#Lead about the removal of significant information from the lead. As is categorized, the article is within the scope of this WikiProject. Input is appreciated. Thanks. Lapadite (talk) 01:05, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Imane_Khelif RFC

There's an RFC concerning how Imane_Khelif genetics and gender should be referred to in the lead at Talk:Imane_Khelif#RfC_lead. Editors are invited to participate. TarnishedPath^talk 10:48, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

JK Rowling RFC

There's currently an RFC at Talk:J. K. Rowling § RFC "anti-transgender activist" in the lead. Editors are invited to participate. — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 09:30, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Improving List of people killed for being transgender

The List of people killed for being transgender page is lacking. There are zero examples before 1991, and the list is far from exhaustive. Cases in the list are also almost exclusively in the United States, and the list could use more global cases.

Ideally, I'd love to add a historical section as well -- Joan of Arc comes to mind but more clear-cut historical cases would be useful, as I think Joan's case is pretty up in the air.

When contributing, please keep in mind that the list is for cases where transness is a clear motive (even if not the only motive); unfortunately cases like Pauly Likens's don't fit the bill without clear evidence of transphobic or trans-related motive. AmityCity (talk) 23:35, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for LGBT themes in speculative fiction

LGBT themes in speculative fiction has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 15:28, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Drag and the Olympic Games

New page: Drag and the Olympic Games

Improvements welcome! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:07, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:LGBT#Requested move 14 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:LGBT#Requested move 14 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk) 21:27, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Wiktionary project

The Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group has been trying to work with GLAAD on an English Wiktionary project to update the definitions of some anti-Queer slurs and conspiracy theory terms (like "transvestigation", for example).

We did have a volunteer working with GLAAD, but they're no longer able to help. Does anyone with experience of editing Wiktionary (or who is comfortable learning it) who would be interested in helping here? — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 21:39, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Intersex healthcare draft feedback

Hello. I saw that there was a page of intersex-related redlinks including intersex healthcare since the intersex medical intervention page focuses mostly on intersex children. I whipped up a draft but I've never made such a hefty article from scratch so I'd appreciate feedback. Here's the draft. Thanks. P.S. feel free to add stuff if you happen to be knowledgeable about this subject. Urchincrawler (talk) 22:01, 15 August 2024 (UTC)