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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 23

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July 23

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Category:Archaeological cultures by ethnic group

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2#Category:Archaeological cultures by ethnic group

Category:1879 battles

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: To match other categories grouping battles by year. By mistake I created this category under a wrong name. Swam pl (talk) 21:24, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Designated Hate and Extremist Groups by The Southern Poverty Law Center

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: speedy delete. Tagged as CSD G4. Liz Read! Talk! 01:14, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Similar categories have invariably been deleted or listified at CfD:
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Bamburgh

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:46, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parents Category:Anglo-Saxon earls and Category:Earls of Northumbria. I've boldly renamed the main article to Earls of Bamburgh already. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:50, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alt compromise rationale: It's a bit difficult to say what their actual titles were, and Category:Monarchs in the British Isles is better for the early "rulers" of Bamburgh, while Category:Anglo-Saxon earls and Category:Earls of Northumbria are better for the later "rulers" of Bamburgh. Adding an extra parent may be a better idea than renaming the category (supported by Deacon of Pndapetzim and Marcocapelle). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:07, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would oppose this. They are not 'earls' until relatively late, in the tenth century they go by the titles 'king' 'prince' and 'high reeve' depending on the source, the use of the title 'earl' emerges late when they more or less accept their status as part of a larger English kingdom (the title 'earl' itself isn't used in that conventional sense in England until about c.1000 anyway). There is something about this in their various articles, but that's why the main article title is not 'Earls of Bamburgh' either. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 10:08, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Would it be a better idea, then, to rename the main article and this category to Monarchs of Bamburgh? Since they can be kings, princes and (semi-)independent earls, and "rulers" is too vague? And are parents Category:Anglo-Saxon earls and Category:Earls of Northumbria even correct if the earliest "rulers" of Bamburgh weren't "earls"? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:21, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Those parents aren't incorrect, since some of them are given the title 'earl', at least by modern historians. To be honest the ambiguity of the word 'ruler' seems to be perfect for the article's topic, I don't see any advantage in 'monarch', esp. as there is a suggestion that rulership of the polity may have been shared c.920 when 'the sons of Eadwulf' are among the rulers who meet Edward the Elder at Bakewell and since the later rulers, say post-Uhtred d. c.1018, definitely don't seem to be sovereign 'monarchs' in the late medieval sense, they are likely subject to the king of England (an Edward the Confessor) and possibly also the ealdorman of Northumbria (e.g. a Siward or Tostig). Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 12:40, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmmm ok, that's good to know. Then perhaps rather than looking for an overarching parent category, we should put this category (and the main article) into several categories which may only partially apply? E.g. Category:Monarchs in the British Isles for the early "rulers" of Bamburgh, and Category:Anglo-Saxon earls and Category:Earls of Northumbria for the later "rulers" of Bamburgh? (We do not have to take the "mon-" in "monarch" too literally in cases of power-sharing between, say, two kings, or a king and a queen regnant; that would make categorisation overcomplicated.) This seems to be a good compromise to me. How about you @Deacon of Pndapetzim and @Marcocapelle? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:55, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm don't think I'm all that fussed what categories get put at the bottom of this article, but I should point out that we don't really know when they stopped being 'kings' and started being 'earls', as you'll know the evidence doesn't always allow the kind of clear and decisive EITHER/OR interpretation well suited for, say, Wikipedia categories. Also, maybe it's just me, 'monarch' sounds a bit high for these types of early medieval rulers, would any modern writer ever use such a grand term for kings of Brega or kings of the Rhinns? I'm a bit puzzled why the word 'ruler' is allegedly problematic by comparison. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 13:09, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As a historian, I agree with what you say about the uncertainty of what to call something or someone when the sources are ambiguous, and not trying to put historical persons into boxes in which they do not fit.
As a Wikipedian, I must insist on WP:CATSPECIFIC, and that clarifying which kinds of persons this category is grouping should be unambiguous enough, as part of the Category:Rulers process.
My compromise suggestion seeks to strike a balance between these two considerations. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:34, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:58, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I originally closed this as rename; I have reverted the closure due to User talk:Qwerfjkl § Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 11#Category:Rulers of Bamburgh
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:45, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:District attorneys in Vermont

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2#Category:District attorneys in Vermont

Category:Bohemian literature

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2#Category:Bohemian literature

Category:Humsafar Express route diagram templates

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Uncontested and uncontroversial nomination. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:47, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, only one template in the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:19, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Protagonists of Chinese descent in Japanese anime

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Anime and manga set in China. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:48, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: delete, none of the articles is primarily about a protagonist. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:33, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indian film industry terminology

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:48, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge, this category does not clearly distinguish itself from its parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:18, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:30, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hoards in the United States

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:52, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge or reverse merge, overlapping categories. It probably makes sense to leave a redirect. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:13, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per WP:C2C parent Category:Treasure troves by country. I do have a preference for "in" rather than "of"; the siblings are currently inconsistent. I think we are interested in the location where these treasure troves were found, not "ownership". These treasures were usually buried in the ground long before the present-day countries were established as states. But that's for a future follow-up nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:27, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment "These treasures were usually buried in the ground long before the present-day countries were established" Not necessarily. The term treasure trove also applies to valuable items located in the cellars or attics of extant buildings. Hoards are archaeological items, but the term treasure trove applies to hidden collections of valuables. Dimadick (talk) 20:07, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Frank Reyes

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:49, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:OCEPON, the albums subcategory suffices. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:04, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:C2F, couldn't this be listed at speedy? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:30, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't mean an eponymous category is needed. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 19:42, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Antony Santos

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:49, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:OCEPON and the songs and albums categories are already interlinked by the template. This is exactly an example to which this proposed new speedy criterion would apply. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect or Keep. I have added a new subcategory Also, I might create a page involving a documentary he was a part of in 1996. Antony Santos is considered one of Dominican Republic's biggest artists if not, the biggest to ever from from that country, which makes the category more important to keep. DominicanWikiEdit1996 (talk) 11:02, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure you understand what eponymous categories are used for. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 19:44, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I actually do. I have seen eponymous categories from Michael Jackson and other artist. But, I do understand that two of the eponymous categories created don't have more articles or subcategories about these artists. There for, I do understand why you considered it unnecessary. You know I have created eponymous categories for Romeo Santos and Aventura before. Those have never been under consideration for deletion because of the multiple subcategories and numerous articles involving them. DominicanWikiEdit1996 (talk) 15:18, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1970s elections in England

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:49, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: delete, it only contains an article about the UK rather than England, and it does not have any sibling categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:48, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:52, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Redundant to Category:1970s elections in the United Kingdom. We don't have by-decade categories for English local elections or bye-elections, and none of these are in the category anyway. Johnbod (talk) 16:11, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Manuscripts

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2#Manuscripts

Category:Musical manuscripts of the Fitzwilliam Museum

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 13:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Category contains only the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book and its eponymous subcategory. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:33, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:32, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are other musical manuscripts which may merit an article in due course, eg https://blogs.bl.uk/asian-and-african/2018/06/sophia-plowden-khanum-jan-and-hindustani-airs.html Thoughtfortheday (talk) 15:56, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Manuscripts from the Cairo Geniza

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2#Category:Manuscripts from the Cairo Geniza

Category:Athos manuscripts

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2#Category:Athos manuscripts

Category:Manuscripts by collection

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2#Category:Manuscripts by collection

Category:Indo-European law

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2#Category:Indo-European law

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