Talk:Julia Görges

Diatrics on her name

Ok, so I didn't mean to be rash by correcting what appeared to me to be a spelling 'error.' But in the official tennis organizations like the WTA, ITF, and the Grand Slams, her surname is spelled as 'Goerges.' And the tennis media in general also follows that convention. I also figured that most of those who are looking her up on Wikipedia are going to search for her using 'Goerges' (although that is not really a problem since it automatically redirects to her page). Also, her official website and Twitter both use 'Goerges.' So, what do you all think about moving the page to align with this conventional spelling?

Aandalib90 (talk) 09:46, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Her official website uses the correct spelling "Julia Görges" on every page. Even her personal profile shows "Name: Julia Görges". Jared Preston (talk) 15:02, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I meant the web address. But you are right about the site itself. Aandalib90 (talk) 20:09, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:01, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Julia Görges → Julia Goerges —

• This is the correct standard English spelling of her name. The current spelling is the particularized German version of her name. Relisting, see below. Andrewa (talk) 18:54, 12 February 2011 (UTC) Aandalib90 (talk) 08:29, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose: German version of her name? She is German, she has a German name. You shouldn't go around changing all appearances of her name to Goerges from Görges, including all instances of interwiki links just because of WP:Diacritics, which are "neither encouraged nor discouraged". Jared Preston (talk) 08:44, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Sadly it is often common to refer to people with umlauts in their name this way, but it's usually a product of laziness and not being able to be bothered to find an umlaut on your keyboard. It was more justified in the days of typewriters, but there's really no justification for it now. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:55, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support, as the diacritic means little to an english reading layman such as me. GoodDay (talk) 14:50, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

• A bit of a generalisation I think. I too am "an English reading layman" and I know exactly what an umlaut means! -- Necrothesp (talk) 23:45, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. It's how the name is spelled. There is no standard English spelling of German names. --Matthiasb (talk) 15:30, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support. For the reasons stated above. All the official tennis organizations (WTA, ITF, Grand Slams) and the tennis media at large use the English spelling. I shouldn't say it is more correct than the German spelling, because it's not. Also, her personal Twitter page uses the English spelling. Aandalib90 (talk) 20:22, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

  Comment: If the WTA et al. don't get it (don't know, can't do it, don't want, are just lazy) there's no reason to incorporate those ignorance/error/laziness as well in an encyclopedy. --Matthiasb (talk) 22:07, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

  Comment: Do a simple Google search. Wikipedia is the only page to use the German spelling. All others use 'Goerges.' Aandalib90 (talk) 23:48, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

  Really? --Matthiasb (talk) 14:29, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

  Yes, really. Every page except her website and this Wiki page. Aandalib90 (talk) 00:00, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose Its her proper name and characters like ö are readily available from the Latin toolbar down the bottom, suggesting to me that they are "legal" to use on the English Wikipedia. Calistemon (talk) 04:37, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose; there is no problem with having the Germanic umlaut in names. It is approved in the guidelines last time I looked. Snowman (talk) 00:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Interesting... WP:BLP should also be relevant. Is her own website not a particularly reliable source, for example? But what when that website seems to go against common English usage, as here? No vote for now, but very interested in any consensus that can be reached, so relisting. Andrewa (talk) 18:54, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose per wp:diacritic. Her correctly spelled name is "Görges" and the trans-literation (and anyway, "ö" is an English character, even if only snobs like The New Yorker use it) ""Goerges is not predominantly used ^walk victor falk ^talk 19:49, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

• Comment The name of this article should be changed to "Julia Goerges" because that is the name used on the English-language websites of the official governing bodies of tennis, the Women's Tennis Association and the International Tennis Federation . That also is the name used on the English-language website of the Federation Cup. Finally, that is the name used on the English-language websites of the following Grand Slam tournaments: French Open (Roland Garros), Wimbledon, US Open, Australian Open. Aandalib90 (talk) 00:05, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

• A note to the closing admin: The above support vote is the third if you include the initial move request from the user Aandalib90 (talk · contribs) who unfortunately does not understand what a diacritic is. In Görges' instance, the trema (or umlaut; ö) is part of her name. This poses a number of problems in English sources, as a lot of the mainstream English press refuse to write Ö, instead preferring OE. Anyone who has learned a foreign language will probably have some practise in learning these different, yet still Latin-based letters. We simply cannot go around changing all examples of diacritics, like the ñ in Piñata, just because we don't have the key on a typical English keyboard. There have been a number of attempted requested moves where readers assume that a person's name must have the English spelling, even when for example in Görges' case, there is a simple explanation for not having used the diacritic in these tennis sources (which never replicate them anyway – Ančić is invariably spelt Ancic). Matthiasb (talk · contribs) has even gone to the trouble above to show just how many google hits aside from Wikipedia actually do and can use the umlaut. If Görges' name is changed to Goerges (or even Gorges my god, even worse...), then where will this nonsense stop? Jared Preston (talk) 16:43, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Comment: Why are you condescendingly saying I do not know what a diacritic is? Just because I support the English spelling does not mean I do not know what it is. As Andrewa said, Goerges agrees more with the 'common English usage' on Wikipedia. And when you refer to Matthiasb's so-called google hits, see how 'official' those sources are as opposed to the google hits I presented. The evidence is overwhelming. Every major governing body and tennis organization uses and favors English spelling, so why should Wikipedia be any different? Aandalib90 (talk) 23:19, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you know how this process works, Aandalib90, but you can only vote once, not three times. Its the good old one person-one vote system. It would be good if you removed those other two supports of yours. Calistemon (talk) 23:58, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I did not realize. Is it alright now? Aandalib90 (talk) 02:19, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Looks better now. I'm just not sure whether the fact that you are the one that proposed the move already counts as a vote or not. The closing admin will know. Calistemon (talk) 02:38, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Suggestions for improvement

I have done a lot of editing of Görges' page in the past couple of days, but feel free to spot any errors or make any suggestions for improvement. I am new to Wikipedia editing, so there may very well be several other ways to present material better that I have yet to know about. I feel like the Career section of the page is quite cluttered at the moment, but don't know how to improve it without a massive overhaul of the entire section. Aandalib90 (talk) 02:24, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Naming Issue

I noticed that the above discussion made little-to-no referrence to WP:COMMONNAME. According to the policy:

"Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's 'official' name as an article title; it instead uses the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources."

Sports Illustrated, ESPN, The Los Angeles Times, NBC Sports, Yahoo Sports, and The WTA, are all reliable English-language sources, and all use the spelling "Goerges" (as do several others, I'd imagine). Even her own website, which reserves the German spelling for pages within, still uses the address julia-goerges.com.

I think that another move should be considered based on these matters. The "Görges" spelling can still be noted in the first sentence of the article. -- James26 (talk) 21:54, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

I've gotten some good advice from Vegaswikian. I think a decision to re-nominate should be based on whatever consensus is reached here regarding the common name, or other points. -- James26 (talk) 05:32, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I already suggested moving the page to reflect the usage of the English spelling by virtually all non-German sources, but more people opposed this move than supported, as can be seen above. I'll just again point out the fact that all the official governing bodies of tennis use 'Goerges', including the Women's Tennis Association and the International Tennis Federation . That also is the name used on the English-language website of the Federation Cup and the Grand Slam tournaments: French Open (Roland Garros), Wimbledon, US Open, Australian Open. --Aandalib90 (talk) 05:03, 12 May 2011 (UTC)