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m Maintain {{WPBS}}: 3 WikiProject templates. Keep majority rating "Stub" in {{WPBS}}. Remove 3 same ratings as {{WPBS}} in {{WikiProject Kosovo}}, {{WikiProject Cities}}, {{WikiProject Serbia}}. Remove 1 deprecated parameter: importance. Tag: |
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== "Albanik" ==
<small><s>
The article should not use "Albanik", an utterly provocative name suggested by the Albanological Institute for a Serb-inhabited town that has its ''own'' name, '''Leposavić'''. [[User:Ktrimi991]] first thanked my edit removing this addition, then returned it by [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Leposavi%C4%87&diff=760750240&oldid=760737591 adding a Republic of Kosovo document]. [[WP:GF|Good faith]], yeah, right...--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 22:02, 18 January 2017 (UTC)</s> -- this was the blocked sockpuppeteer, {{u|Ajdebre}}</small>▼
<small><s>
▲The article should not use "Albanik", an utterly provocative name suggested by the Albanological Institute for a Serb-inhabited town that has its ''own'' name, '''Leposavić'''. [[User:Ktrimi991]] first thanked my edit removing this addition, then returned it by [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Leposavi%C4%87&diff=760750240&oldid=760737591 adding a Republic of Kosovo document]. [[WP:GF|Good faith]], yeah, right...--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 22:02, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
*{{cite book|author1=Marc Sommers|author2=Peter Buckland|author3=International Institute for Educational Planning|title=Parallel worlds: rebuilding the education system in Kosovo|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=QJklAQAAIAAJ|year=2004|publisher=International Institute for Educational Planning|quote=On some maps, for example, the town of Leposavic (Serbian) is listed not as Leposaviq, the Albanian equivalent, but as ' Albanik' , which translates as 'Albanian' . Located in the far north of Kosovo and close to Serbian borders on three sides, Leposavic / Leposaviq / Albanik has historically been an area of Serbian settlement. The politics surrounding 'Albanik' is only one example of the multitude of ways that conflict between Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo continues after the war has passed.}}
*{{cite book|author=Saskia Drude|title=Hundert Wochen Kosovo: Alltag in einem unfertigen Land|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Vo25s3ZLewUC&pg=PA99|year=2008|publisher=Karin Fischer Verlag|isbn=978-3-89514-836-1|pages=99–|quote=Für Leposavić/Leposaviç, mitten im serbischen Siedlungsgebiet gelegen, verfügte das Albanologische Institut den Namen Albanik, das ist schon eine besondere Provokation!}}</s> sock of permabanned edit warrior, {{u|Ajdebre}}</small>
<small><s>
*{{cite book|title=Grand Hotel Kosovo: Schlaglichter einer europäischen Staatsbildung|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=84S_lxDu-aAC&pg=PA69|year=2011|publisher=LIT Verlag Münster|isbn=978-3-643-11425-9|pages=69–|quote=Örtchen Leposavić in Albanik umzutaufen, konnte bisher angesichts. mangelnder Repräsentanz der Albaner vor Ort bisher nur in den. Werken nationalistischer Kartographen Gestalt annehmen.}}</s> sock of permabanned edit warrior, {{u|Ajdebre}}</small>
<s><small>
So, what is said is that Kosovo Albanian nationalists and RoK are trying to change placenames in Kosovo, including, provocatively, places where there is no Albanian community. Since the established, historical, neutral and official name is Leposavić, and not this scarcely used newly-composed provocative Albanian nationalist name, I see no logic in retaining it.--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 22:02, 18 January 2017 (UTC)</s> blocked sockpuppeteer: {{u|Ajdebre}}</small>
:I suggest you to be more careful with the words you describe other people and nations. Albanik is used in an official document. Provocative or not, it is a fact. By the way I added the Kosovo government doc and then I thanked you for making me find a more reliable source. [[User:Ktrimi991|Ktrimi991]] ([[User talk:Ktrimi991|talk]]) 22:12, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
::Where have I described other people? It is not a 'fact'. Carefully read what is said. The use is dubious and undue, period.--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 22:25, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
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::It is not flagrant, it describes the geographic location of the town.--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 22:52, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
::::"Borders Serbia" is unambiguously biased. Supporters of the Serbian position say that it is [[Kukës]] that is near the Serbian border. The whole thing could have been written in so many different ways that neither favoured one side or the other, so when a writer ignores the source of the dispute, it is unsurprising that he will call Leposavić by the name ''Albanik''. --[[User:Oranges Juicy|OJ]] ([[User talk:Oranges Juicy|talk]]) 00:22, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::<small><s>The author takes the "Western" side on the matter of Kosovo's independence, yes, but he does actually not call Leposavić by the name ''Albanik'', only notes that it has been used "on some maps", part of the Albanian linguistical campaign (Albanianization) in Kosovo (and groups this under the "Albanian-Serbian conflict"). The source should obviously not be used to support the inclusion of the name ''Albanik'', as falsely done by Ktrimi991.--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 02:38, 31 January 2017 (UTC)</s> Blocked sockpuppeteer: {{u|Ajdebre}}</small>
:::::::Of course not. On that I agree. Anyhow, because I only read the text on this body of conversation, I wasn't clear on what was being insinuated by the author. --[[User:Oranges Juicy|OJ]] ([[User talk:Oranges Juicy|talk]]) 09:27, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
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{{ping|Vanjagenije}} In all pages for settlements in Kosovo, the first sentence contains all alternative names in Albanian and Serbian. That done to avoid conflicts. Why does "Albanik" concerns you? [[User:Ktrimi991|Ktrimi991]] ([[User talk:Ktrimi991|talk]]) 10:49, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{ping|Ktrimi991}} See the section above this one. '''[[User:Vanjagenije|<span style="color:#008B8B;">Vanjagenije</span>]] [[User talk:Vanjagenije|<span style="color: #F4A460;">(talk)</span>]]''' 10:50, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
::{{re|Vanjagenije}} Really? I see it. "Albanik", a new or old name, is used in official documents. And as such should be present in the first sentence. Some time ago you were saying that if you have sources, you do not need consensus (And were helped by some certain editors who reverted me for "vandalism" to outnumber me). What changed your opinion? [[User:Ktrimi991|Ktrimi991]] ([[User talk:Ktrimi991|talk]]) 10:56, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
:::Yes, really. Sources are obviously conflicting. There are much more official documents that do not use "Albanik", but use "Leposaviq". The city can't have two official Albanian names, so which one is it? '''[[User:Vanjagenije|<span style="color:#008B8B;">Vanjagenije</span>]] [[User talk:Vanjagenije|<span style="color: #F4A460;">(talk)</span>]]''' 11:03, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
::::{{re|Vanjagenije}} Maybe it is Albanik. Some official documents use "Leposaviq", some use "Albanik". Nah, it does not seem to me that "Leposaviq" is used more frequently. Why don't you agree to have all names used in official documents in the first sentence, as a sign of good will? In all the other articles is used this practice. For example see [[Podujevo]]. The first sentence contains "Podujevo", "Podujeva" and "Besiane". [[Novo Brdo]] contains "Novo Brdo", "Novoberde" and "Artane". Why the case of "Albanik" is different? [[User:Ktrimi991|Ktrimi991]] ([[User talk:Ktrimi991|talk]]) 11:25, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Vanjagenije}} You did not understand me. I am not supporting nor opposing the inclusion of "Albanik". As an administrator, I am concerned about procedure. If there is a discussion, and nobody except you supports the inclusion, then you can't add it. That is against [[WP:consensus]]. Maybe further discussion is needed, maybe wider participation is needed, but at this moment, there is simply no consensus to include. '''[[User:Vanjagenije|<span style="color:#008B8B;">Vanjagenije</span>]] [[User talk:Vanjagenije|<span style="color: #F4A460;">(talk)</span>]]''' 11:37, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
::::::{{re|Vanjagenije}} Do not ping yourself :) The discussions always have their friendly and funny side. On the issue you cite, I suggest adding the name "Albanik", and if in the coming few days opposition arises, I will open a RfC. Good? [[User:Ktrimi991|Ktrimi991]] ([[User talk:Ktrimi991|talk]]) 11:41, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|Vanjagenije}} {{ping|Ktrimi991}} it might make sense to make a "Name" section where we explain how the name Albanik came to be, if we keep it-- if what is said in the above section (admittedly by a sock whose comments must be stricken) is true. --[[User:Calthinus|Calthinus]] ([[User talk:Calthinus|talk]]) 16:03, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Post 1999, the Albanian administration in Kosovo designated alternative names to the current ones in Albanian for a whole host of places. This has resulted in dual usage among Albanians (even at a official capacity) for those for and against these new names. The alternative name needs to be mentioned in the article.[[User:Resnjari|Resnjari]] ([[User talk:Resnjari|talk]]) 19:58, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::I do agree Albanik needs to be in the lede. It is entirely possible this page is stumbled upon by say travelers who are looking in a map using only that name, and they might think they went to the wrong page if it is not-- one of many examples for why it is useful to have the name with official usage in the lede.--[[User:Calthinus|Calthinus]] ([[User talk:Calthinus|talk]]) 20:19, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::{{re|Calthinus}} {{re|Resnjari}} Vanjagenije and I made some modifications to the section. The banned sock did not give the whole quote about Albanik. [[User:Ktrimi991|Ktrimi991]] ([[User talk:Ktrimi991|talk]]) 13:36, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::{{re|Ktrimi991|Vanjagenije}} thanks for fixing this. I was clumsy.--[[User:Calthinus|Calthinus]] ([[User talk:Calthinus|talk]]) 16:08, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::{{re|Calthinus}} Thanks for creating the section. It is probably the most notable detail about the said settlement, and gives a better reliability to the article. Cheers all, [[User:Ktrimi991|Ktrimi991]] ([[User talk:Ktrimi991|talk]]) 16:30, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
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