Talk:Shivaji

Expansion of Maratha Empire after Shivaji

I am moving the section after the military as it disrupts the flow of the article. Also, it isn't really about Shivaji but the Maratha empire and we have a separate page for the Maratha empire.

James laine

Those idiots write here james laine was academician , they dont know this so called great scholar citing his colleagues's joke as a historical truth , is it worth of a historical facts? is he scholar ? Dare to speak truth if you say you are a scholar.

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2022 please add Maharaj after shivaji it's my request to you. Calling him shivaji is disrespecting him! I hope you understand he was the most beloved king of maharashtra

27.96.89.73 (talk) 01:23, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 03:23, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Keep "Shivaji". Actually his name was "Shiva" named after Goddess Shivai. "Ji" is already a honorific to him. Calling Pitaji and Mataji (Father and Mother) is not disrespecting them. Calling Gandhiji is not disrespecting Mahatma Gandhi. Vatsmaxed (talk) 09:20, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Please we request you to change our kings name to chatrapati shivaji maharaj on wikipedia

Please change the name from shivaji to Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj.Because he is people's king and thats why he is chatrapati. 202.134.168.224 (talk) 16:07, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done Neither Chatrapati, nor Maharaj, appear to be a part of his name. Chhatrapati, according to our article on the term, is a title. Maharaj, is also a title and both apparently mean "great king". --RegentsPark (comment) 17:31, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

RegentsPark) - Pope is a title and there are pages referring to the respective Pope with a title before their first name. A similar rationale in this case can be applied to have the name Chhatrapati Shivaji as the page title. Amitized (talk) 07:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

User:202.134.168.224, RegentsPark and Amitized, Keep "Shivaji". Actually his name was "Shiva" named after Goddess Shivai. "Ji" is already a honorific to him. Many rulers-related articles are simply-named such as Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, Napoleon etc. Even Hindu gods have simply-named articles, see Rama, Krishna, Parvati, Shiva etc. Pope is a "religious" title though, can not be compared with "royal" case here, see Swami Vivekananda, Guru Nanak etc.

Having said this I will strongly bat for uniformity across all rulers-related articles and religious figures-related articles. For eg, Queen Victoria should be changed to simply Victoria and Tukaram should be changed to Sant Tukaram as in Saint Peter, Pope Francis. Vatsmaxed (talk) 09:05, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

@Vatsmaxed and Amitized: I think there is some sort of exception for popes and saints (not sure why that is the case and someone should probably petition for that exception to be dropped). Queen Victoria is an exception for royalty (see Elizabeth II, Ivan the Terrible, and (closer to home) Ashoka). Compared to, say Akbar or Ashoka, Shivaji is probably of lesser importance and it is hard to see how we can make an exception for him. I agree with Vatsmaxed that Queen Victoria should be renamed to something like Victoria (Queen) but that's not a battle I'm willing to take up. --RegentsPark (comment) 12:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

RegentsPark (comment), Even the University in Kolhapur where Shivaji's descendants ruled until 1947 was named Shivaji University in 1962, without the prefix and the suffix. The use of prefix and suffix is a recent phenomenon, and probably coincides with the rise of the Shiv sena party.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 16:26, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

RegentsPark and Jonathansammy, Agree with you completely. Even popes and saints should have honorific removed from their names. When it can be simply Jesus (and not Jesus Christ) or Muhammad (and not Prophet Muhammad) or Rama, Krishna, Parvati, Shiva etc who definitely hold higher position in their respective religions THAN popes, saints, kings and any other, no pope, saint and king should have honorifics to their names. Which makes me to think that a Wikipedia-wide discussion needs to be started to remove the honorifics. I will try to propose the same after finding about process. But it also makes me wonder whether (Since Shiva is actual name and not Shivaji, ji being a honorific), should Shivaji be renamed to Shiva (King) (not WP:Commonname) in contrast to Shiva (God). Vatsmaxed (talk) 05:12, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, that was his name and the ji is not a mere honorofic. Regardless, Shivaji is the name used consistently by historians so that's what we should use. --RegentsPark (comment) 03:08, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

@RegentsPark: the name is 'SHIVAJI' as mentioned in Gazetteer of the Bombay Presidency, Vol 1, Part 1, 1896, BUT the The Westminster Review Volumes 123-124, Issues 245-248, 1885 mentions on page 30 that the 'ji' is an HONORIFIC Syllable usually added to the name as it is considered auspicious - being derived from the root either "jiv"- to live OR "ji"- to conquer. STC1 _talk 16:26, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter. I roughly scanned the sources and couldn't find a single one that doesn't refer to him as Shivaji. No one, apparently, uses Shiva. So, Shivaji it is! --RegentsPark (comment) 02:58, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

correct. STC1 _talk 11:21, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

History

Shivaji had 8 wife's 2409:4042:196:27FB:0:0:1285:18A5 (talk) 14:57, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Can you cite a realible source? Akshaypatill (talk) 15:54, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Shivaji maharaj

Shivaji maharaj 2409:4042:70B:5192:4CEC:7E0A:D0E8:7C0B (talk) 06:11, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

King's surname

Bhosle Not a bhonsle 2409:4042:2218:304A:C071:B29C:2097:8A30 (talk) 11:54, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

request you to rectify the mistake regarding the name of a Historical personality mentioned in the Title and Description/informational paragraphs

Dear Wikipedia Team and Users of Wikipedia, First, I declare that I do not have any intentions to hurt sentiments to any community, I would like you to understand the point, in order to enable you to take actions to change your article so that your articles will become truely unbiased, more sensible, more adhered to the Same common rule, more logically accurate, and will show the same amount of respects towards all these great personalities, irrespective of the name of thes personalities people generally use. I will put my point with the help of facts and Logic and also would like to have an answer reciprocated the same way. I would like to draw your kind attention to the details behind which I couldn't understand the reason and/or Logic. There are some personalities about whome people have high regards, and wikipedia serves as the source of information of almost all of them for people wanting to know about them. So, I also sense that, its Wikipedia's responsibility to display the information for all these Personalities, with same logic/rule/reason. and if it is not being done, then as a User of Wikipedia, its our responsibility to show Wikipedia the mistakes, by having discussion with all you people. Having said all of these, considering the logic/rule/reason that applies to the title (Name) of the article of many of these powerful and influential historical personalities, I would like to request you to rectify the Title of article called "Shivaji", by replacing it with "Chhatrapati Shivaji" ,as well as replacing all "Shivaji" by "Chhatrapati Shivaji" wherever it is mentioned, in the whole article, the links etc. as it is not as per your Rule/Logic/Reason set to mention the names of these Personalities. There are many example of the titles of the wikipedia Articles that I can share with you to prove my point, but I will share 2 here. 1. the article titled "Maharana Pratap" - In the whole article, "Maharana Pratap" was mentioned respectfully as "Maharana Pratap" and as per the information stated in the article, "Maharana Pratap" was honored as "Maharana" when he was coronated and announced as a King of Mewad region. So, "Maharana" was an honorary term, respectfully used for him, and I think, nothing is wrong in usinh it. Similarly "Chhatrapati Shivaji" was coronated as a "Chhatrapati" in 1674, and here "Chhatrapati" was also an honorary term for him, still, all over in his article, he was referred as "Shivaji" and not "Chhatrapati Shivaji", and this is clearly a contradictory. 2. the article titled "Mahatma Gandhi" - "Mahatma" here in this article, hold same importance as an honorary term for "Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi" and "Mahatma Gandhi" is respectfully used all over in this article.

so according to these example and the articles, The article "Shivaji" must be published with the corrections stated above, to rectify this descripency.

I would like to here your opinions about this. 150.107.180.113 (talk) 03:33, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Such deeply mention of affiliation with ANY political party should be removed Suggestion

"Shivaji is upheld as an example by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party, and also of the Maratha caste dominated Congress parties in Maharashtra, such as the Indira Congress and the Nationalist Congress Party." Nenetarun (talk) 04:23, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

I don't see any problem here. It is sourced from a relible source. The 'an exmple' seems un-encylcopedic. I am changing it. Akshaypatill (talk) 11:41, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Too much hagiography content, can be trimmed as mentioned below : See WP:FANPOV, WP:BLOATED WikiProject tagging

"In modern times, Shivaji is considered as a national hero in India, especially in the state of Maharashtra, where he remains arguably the greatest figure in the state's history. Stories of his life form an integral part of the upbringing and identity of the Marathi people. Further, he is also recognised as a warrior legend, who sowed the seeds of Indian independence."

Above line can be replaced with a one-liner: "In modern times, Shivaji is considered as a national hero in the state of Maharashtra."Nenetarun (talk) 07:31, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

RegentsPark, please look into it.Nenetarun (talk) 07:31, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

We have a whole book for the influnce Shivaji carries in life of Marathi and maharashtrian people - James W. Laine's- Shivaji, Hindu King in Islamic India. So it is due in the article. Also his importance in Indian independence movement is also well documented.

PS: I have removed the last sentence as it is covered elsewhere in the article. Akshaypatill (talk) 12:14, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

1886 was when the first war of Indian independence was fought, whereas shivaji died in the year 1680; it's a difference of 200 years! Wars he fought were to expand his "maratha kingdom", It has got nothing to do with the indian independence for godsakes! Nenetarun (talk) 08:06, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

I was expecting better from you. Akshaypatill (talk) 11:13, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Success think:, request you to do the needful as User:akshaypatil himself being a Marathi seems to take things personally/otherwise and has hard time maintaining neutrality here atleast.Nenetarun (talk) 11:28, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Change in name

It's not Shivaji it's *chatrapati shivaji maharaj* 117.229.175.175 (talk) 11:38, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Please see MOS:HONORIFIC. According to the policy the use of honorifics along with a name is discouraged. Akshaypatill (talk) 11:45, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

james laine and his coterie

Idiots , james laine was criticised for his non sense jokes and not his scholarship , are you people afraid of truth — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.133.232.86 (talk) 18:02, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

if any one of you dare to speak of history then edit this para In 2003, American academic James W. Laine published his book Shivaji: Hindu King in Islamic India, which was followed by heavy criticism, including threats of arrest.[197] As a result of this publication, the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute in Pune where Laine had researched was attacked by a group of Maratha activists calling itself the Sambhaji Brigade.[198][199] The book was banned in Maharashtra in January 2004, but the ban was lifted by the Bombay High Court in 2007, and in July 2010 the Supreme Court of India upheld the lifting of the ban.[200] This lifting was followed by public demonstrations against the author and the decision of the Supreme Court.[201][202] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.133.232.86 (talk) 18:05, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

I am aware of it. It needs a bit expansion with details. Will do once I get some free time. Need to find reliable sources. Akshaypatill (talk) 18:54, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

WP:BLP applies for Laine, a gentle reminder. TrangaBellam (talk) 19:20, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

User:TrangaBellam, I didn't understand. I am aware of BLP but... Can you elaborate a little more? Akshaypatill (talk) 05:11, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2022

Change name from Shivaji to Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Raayba (talk) 20:26, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: See explanation of honorifics above. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:32, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Legecy - Inspiration : political party ?

Why this political info or misinformation on this article in legecy section ? Most of these parties use The Great Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj's name for gain vote and for political mileage, I suggest to remove that propoganda info immediately from this biography article. This info can be written on Shiv Sena, BJP and NCP's article but it's not appropriate to include here. Or make a seperate article and describe, how when a political party used Shivaji I name for their gain.Success think (talk) 11:07, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

User:Success think I have no strong opinion here. Another editor had called for it above. I don't find it problematic. But, if you think it is problematic, be bold, go ahead and remove it and if someone objects, you can discuss it. Akshaypatill (talk) 13:08, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

@Akshaypatill:, I think all the active editors like you must have to discuss it here to reach on a WP: Consensus without revert edit back and forth will happen and I don't want that. My openion is we all have to make a seperate article for, 'Shivaji Maharaj influence or so called "inspiration". And move all this political info in it. Add a see also or more info link about it. Success think (talk) 14:40, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

@Akshaypatill:, I think @Nenetarun: also addressing same problem, which you reverted. As a experienced editor, I want you to edit out it yourself and we will join you. I want exercise editors @Bonadea:, @David notMD:'s take on it. This info in un-encyclopedic and just portraying Shivaji Maharaj's name in politicall spectrum.Success think (talk) 14:50, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

I hav no expertise or knowledge whatsoever on anything related to India, India history or India politics. David notMD (talk) 22:24, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, @David notMD: Thank for responding, but you can edit political influence section in this article. Success think (talk) 04:46, 24 March 2022 (UTC)