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Talk:The Nolans: Difference between revisions

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Note re editing and copyright problem: Changes in latest version discussed
Implementing WP:PIQA (Task 26)
 
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{{Talk header}}
{{WikiProject Ireland|class=Start|importance=Mid|attention=yes|listas=Nolans}}
{{Press
{{WPBiography|class=Start|priority=|musician-work-group=yes|listas=Nolans}}
| subject = article
| author=Angus Kidman
| title=How Wikipedia Can Make You A More Tolerant Person
| org=[[Lifehacker|Lifehacker Australia]]
| url=http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2011/01/how-wikipedia-can-make-you-a-more-tolerant-person/
| date=2011-01-12
| accessdate= 2011-01-16
}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C| blp=yes|listas=Nolans, The|
{{WikiProject Pop music}}
{{WikiProject Biography|musician-work-group=yes
}}
{{WikiProject Ireland|importance=Mid|attention=yes}}
{{WikiProject Women in Music}}
}}
 
== Cleanup started ==
 
Somebody had pasted a huge whack of irelevant information promoting various bootleg compilations into the article, which I've summarily removed, along with links to unofficial sites. The text still needs copy-editing (which means the tag should stay), but at least it's a start. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 07:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
:After a few days, the material got pasted back in again (by a user who is already deregistered). It's clearly non-encyclopedic, poorly formatted, and seems designed in large part to promote bootlet compilations. So once again I removed it. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 20:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
::This hasn't officially moved into [[WP:3RR]] territory, but there's definitely an edit war going on. The fact that the user who keeps inserting this material is either an anon or a redlinked account doesn't make it easy to engage in a dialogue, so let me restate the case as I see it: the information being added is entirely unsourced, in many cases consists only of lists (of minor TV appearances or Japanese recordings), is littered with non-NPOV material, and clearly in some cases is promoting bootlegs/fan compilations of material. Extra information about the success of the Nolans in Japan would definitely improve the article, but it should be sourced and written appropriately. The material being added doesn't remotely meet this criteria, being largely an unordered mess, and its presence distracts from the need to also rewrite the main body text. I'd welcome extra input from other Wiki users and admins, as at this stage we seem to be reaching a not very productive stalemate. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 06:55, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
:::There's also further discussion of this dispute on [[User_talk:Gusworld#The Nolans|my talk page]]. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 04:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 
:there certainly is a problem here. my friend has written all the text about the videos and the japanese years, as she has them all. the albums are all official. how can we source material that no one semeed to know about, and would never have appeared in wiki. this peroid was a very important time for the nolans, and a hugely sucessful one. again there is no malice intended with any reversals, but the fact that all this started because some idiots took chunks out for badness.
--[[User:Gazer97|Gazer97]] ([[User talk:Gazer97|talk]]) 20:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
::::Sourcing may well be a problem, but verifiability is a core Wikipedia policy. In any event, there's also a question of relevance -- it isn't encylopedic to list every television appearance made by a given group, or which appearances are found on particular fan-circulated tapes, and that type of material would quite likely be removed from any article. There's already a discography section in the article; for commercially released Japanese albums (not promos or fan compilations, as the general consensus among Wikipedia editors is that these aren't appropriate), a useful first step would be to add the album titles there. Another relevant policy to look at is [[WP:OWN]] -- material that gets added gets edited, and it's inappropriate to take the view 'I (or my friend) wrote this so it must never be changed', which is how this is coming across right now. I'm going to revert the material, but will try and implement some of these editing suggestions later today if you don't get to it first. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 20:57, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 
PPS WHAT DO YOU REGARD irelevant information ?? ENLIGHTEN ME DEAR GO ON... <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/88.109.231.13|88.109.231.13]] ([[User talk:88.109.231.13|talk]]) 21:47, 26 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
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on getting it better so if you could leave it, it would help ok pet :)'''
 
'''k mc 2008'''
 
You said Somebody had pasted a huge whack of irelevant information promoting various bootleg compilations '''Wrong''' there 2 songs that are named bootlegs thats the name of the remixes
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are official japan albums i dont buy cheep bootlegs the jap albums are very excpencive and very
rare, do not try and say there not official(i should know) i own them!!! k mc 2008
 
The japan stuff i added are all official albums and all songs and tracks are official
and for your information the bootlegs as you call them are official japan only mixes
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nolans that include all there hits remixed by a japan dj is this a bootleg, you
donot know the nolans like i do there for stop removing official imfo karen :) <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/88.109.231.13|88.109.231.13]] ([[User talk:88.109.231.13|talk]]) 21:29, 26 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Somebody had pasted a huge whack of irelevant information promoting various bootleg compilations into the article, which I've summarily removed, along with links to unofficial sites. The text still needs copy-editing (which means the tag should stay), but at least it's a start. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 07:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
:After a few days, the material got pasted back in again (by a user who is already deregistered). It's clearly non-encyclopedic, poorly formatted, and seems designed in large part to promote bootlet compilations. So once again I removed it. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 20:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
::This hasn't officially moved into [[WP:3RR]] territory, but there's definitely an edit war going on. The fact that the user who keeps inserting this material is either an anon or a redlinked account doesn't make it easy to engage in a dialogue, so let me restate the case as I see it: the information being added is entirely unsourced, in many cases consists only of lists (of minor TV appearances or Japanese recordings), is littered with non-NPOV material, and clearly in some cases is promoting bootlegs/fan compilations of material. Extra information about the success of the Nolans in Japan would definitely improve the article, but it should be sourced and written appropriately. The material being added doesn't remotely meet this criteria, being largely an unordered mess, and its presence distracts from the need to also rewrite the main body text. I'd welcome extra input from other Wiki users and admins, as at this stage we seem to be reaching a not very productive stalemate. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 06:55, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
:::There's also further discussion of this dispute on [[User_talk:Gusworld#The Nolans|my talk page]]. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 04:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 
:there certainly is a problem here. my friend has written all the text about the videos and the japanese years, as she has them all. the albums are all official. how can we source material that no one semeed to know about, and would never have appeared in wiki. this peroid was a very important time for the nolans, and a hugely sucessful one. again there is no malice intended with any reversals, but the fact that all this started because some idiots took chunks out for badness.
--[[User:Gazer97|Gazer97]] ([[User talk:Gazer97|talk]]) 20:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
::::Sourcing may well be a problem, but verifiability is a core Wikipedia policy. In any event, there's also a question of relevance -- it isn't encylopedic to list every television appearance made by a given group, or which appearances are found on particular fan-circulated tapes, and that type of material would quite likely be removed from any article. There's already a discography section in the article; for commercially released Japanese albums (not promos or fan compilations, as the general consensus among Wikipedia editors is that these aren't appropriate), a useful first step would be to add the album titles there. Another relevant policy to look at is [[WP:OWN]] -- material that gets added gets edited, and it's inappropriate to take the view 'I (or my friend) wrote this so it must never be changed', which is how this is coming across right now. I'm going to revert the material, but will try and implement some of these editing suggestions later today if you don't get to it first. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 20:57, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 
 
::::Karen, please read the entire discussion here, you've ignored most of it (and it helps to add comments at the end). As it stands, the listing you've pasted includes promo only releases, has a lot of irrelevant side comments, isn't formatted appropriately, and has a lot of repeated data. And then there's the problem of the TV show listings, which you haven't addressed either. Your enthusiasm is commendable, but you need to work within the framework of Wikipedia's guidelines and community. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 21:52, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
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Record company names all wrong, members dates and last names wrong dire . i should know i own the records do not atemp to edit or write as its totaly wrong u got the imfo from fake site that clearly dont know what there talking about kmc <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/88.110.183.132|88.110.183.132]] ([[User talk:88.110.183.132|talk]]) 01:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
:If you have evidence that a source is incorrect, please bring it to the talk page so that it can be reviewed by other editors. [[User:Celarnor|<fontb colorstyle="color:#629632;">Celarnor</b>]] [[UserUser_talk:Celarnor|'''Celarnor''']]</font> <sup><font colorstyle="color:#7733ff;">[[User_talk:Celarnor|Talk to me]]</font></sup>]] 01:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 
Firstly i dont want you editing nothing more importantly i will never leave you edit there so what is your point you are clearly crazy you have dates and peoples name all wrong and you added a album that was made up in my mind to the list, that in my book proves once again your way out you league you clearly have no idea who or what the nolans are or about wonder what album you have wrong? ha ha ha
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::Agreed re OR -- as I've noted a couple of times on this talk page, adding citations needs to be a high priority. If additional label names need to be added, then they can easily be added (with sources) -- that doesn't make the article wrong, though it does make it less comprehensive. Your admission to adding false content demonstrates again the need for sources but does again call into question your own reliability as an editor on this topic. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 01:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 
Again have the cds and i know better than you all i will say is anything you add will be removed as its been proven time and time again ur adding rubish , you have no idea what ur talking about. edit away i will remove thats a promice please do not go on my site again i will ban ur ip addres from this moment on. kmc 2008 u are not welcome on my nolans site. you have added inproper content to this page and got album names totaly wrong. its rather sad.{{UnsignedIP<span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/88.110.183.132}}|88.110.183.132]] ([[User talk:88.110.183.132|talk]]) </span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP -->
:Read [[WP:OR]] [[User:Antonio_Lopez|<span style='color:#00ff00;background-color:#000000;font-family:courier new;'>Antonio Lopez</span>]] <sup> [[User_talk:Antonio_Lopez|<span style='color:#ff0000;background-color:#000000;text-decoration:underline;font-family:courier new;'>(talk)</span>]]</sup> 01:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Such a pattern of behaviour on Wikipedia would quite possibly count as [[WP:DIS|disruptive editing]]. Despite the length of this discussion, you have yet to engage with any of the substantive content issues raised above. Nor have you attempted to explain how a list of your video collection should be part of an encyclopedia article. Please [[WP:CIVIL|refrain from personal abuse]] and address the issues at hand. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 01:48, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 
I will address you anyway i please i will talk to you in a proper mannor when you start acting proper
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: i was away for 2 days am back so i hav not quietend down--[[User:Gazer97|Gazer97]] ([[User talk:Gazer97|talk]]) 18:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 
You have yet to demonstrate a single inaccurate record company name, merely an unsourced claim that other labels could be added to the list. If false information has been inserted into the article because of your own insistence on adding text (very evident early on this talk page), that reflects poorly on you. Some brief research suggests that the fake album name in question is 'Special Projects', which can easily be removed from the discography once this current dispute is resolved. As I have respect for WP:3RR, I'm making no changes now, but you still haven't provided a coherent reason for entirely rejecting my most recent edit. Gusworld (talk) 02:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC
 
wrong there are 7 nolans special projects nolans album and most have 2 or 3 diffrent cover and special versions of the album, Do not talk crap about stuff u dont know about esprit only have half the the nolans cd sop you looking on a site that lists only bits of it? and you say its right grouw up kmc2007 <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/88.109.77.129|88.109.77.129]] ([[User talk:88.109.77.129|talk]]) 18:41, 31 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
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we will accept your stuff is its ok e g any accurate info.but we wont have everything taken out either--[[User:Gazer97|Gazer97]] ([[User talk:Gazer97|talk]]) 20:50, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:Please [[WP:CIVIL|be civil]]. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you haven't provided evidence in a form that meets Wikipedia guidelines.
:I have not said everything found online is true -- Wikipedia sourcing policy makes it clear that many online resources should not be used, or only used with great care. I have said that there's no immediate evidence online that these particular CDs exist.
:If you add CDs to the discography, they will need to be appropriately referenced, and conform to generally accepted policies re discographies (for instance, promo-only items aren't normally included). References wouldn't necessarily have to be an online reference (you'll note there are print references in the article already), but it would have to be from a verifiable source as defined by Wikipedia policy. I note you have previously claimed to have deliberately added fake CD informaton to the page; pursuing this policy ensures that all information is verifiable. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 20:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 
There are loads and loads of nolans uk cd on diffrent record companys re issues re recorded hits i should know i own then dont you dare say its made up you would not know a nolans cd if hit you in the face iv still to add 7 nolans uk cd to the list as it stands i will let you play im in touch with all the uk fans and we are all gonna revert back to my list, as its more intresting than anything you have to say what are you being all goody 2 shoes about i looked on ur info page.. was u a bad boy? remember god is watching <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Nolans2007|Nolans2007]] ([[User talk:Nolans2007|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Nolans2007|contribs]]) 21:00, 31 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
page.. was u a bad boy? remember god is watching
 
<small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Nolans2007|Nolans2007]] ([[User talk:Nolans2007|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Nolans2007|contribs]]) 21:00, 31 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
:::Nolans2007, I've just placed a note on your talk page reminding you of [[WP:3RR]] -- continuous edit warring is unproductive. I'll merely reiterate that Wikipedia's policies emphasise verifiability, not truth. I'm not denying the existence of any particular CD, but any information added to the article must come from verifiable sources, as defined by Wikipedia, and continuously reverting to an old version which lacks any sources whatsoever is not helpful. Please be civil, and please sign your posts. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 21:05, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
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Can anyone confirm the existence of this as an actual single released in the UK in 1979, and identify the label or catalogue number? It doesn't show up in any prominent second-hard record stores online (I checked GEMM, eBay and EIL), and the only references to the single (as distinct to the TV performance) that I could find through Google are copied from this entry on Wikipedia. I know it's appeared as a bonus track on various releases, but unless there's some definite evidence of the single itself it needs to be removed from the singles discography (the song is already mentioned in the article in the context of the Song for Europe performance). I'd have thought it would be relatively uncommon for a single by a band with (at that stage) no singles chart pedigree to be released for a song that didn't win the Song for Europe round, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 20:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 
 
As this article has been locked, it seems that all the furore over editing should be over. However, I don't know whether "Harry" was a single, but I do know that they released several singles before "Spirit Body and Soul". The discography is also lacking in that it doesn't include later singles such as 1985's "Goodbye Nothin' To Say" or the '89 issue of "I'm In The Mood For dancing" (which reached the UK top 100)- so there are a lot of singles missing from the list.
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Re the 89 re-release -- this is news to me, but it doesn't appear in any chart reference books as having made the UK Top 100 (though the 1995 re-recording did). Any further details? [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 22:12, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 
''Yes, just checked it. Sure enough, it reached NO.99. Check out their discography on the Chartstats website - a great site for the UK charts. Although look them up under T not N (ie. THE Nolans) --[[Special:Contributions/82.0.207.86|82.0.207.86]] ([[User talk:82.0.207.86|talk]]) 22:57, 3 April 2008 (UTC)''
--[[Special:Contributions/82.0.207.86|82.0.207.86]] ([[User talk:82.0.207.86|talk]]) 22:57, 3 April 2008 (UTC)''
 
:OK, will look into that, thanks. Technically, only the UK Top 75 is considered canonical (which is why a #99 appearance wouldn't show up in reference books), but it could potentially be added in with a footnote to that effect. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 23:02, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
::(Just shifted this to the end to make tracking discussion easier). A related question if anyone knows: is the 95 re-release of IITMFD a remix of the 89 re-recording, or a second re-recording? (As ever, need a source for this, but knowing the answer would make it simpler to locate one!) [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 00:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)!
 
: I'm fairly sure the 89 and 95 versions are different, but don't know 100%, so not a lot of help there. I do know that they re-recorded all their hits on a 1995 compilation released over here (UK and Ireland)- the version on this CD is different, but also on a different label. It was a budget release, so I wouldn't be too worried about including it in the discography. I see however, that you failed to put in the '85 single "Goodbye Nothin' To Say". This was advertised in the press at the time, so probably seen as a comeback single - so quite important, despite it not charting. I also know they had another album out this year called "Love Songs". Unfortunately I don't know any details on it or how official it was. Possibly a follow-up to "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun"?
Still I'm glad to see all that ridiculous info on those videos has gone. --[[User:Tuzapicabit|Tuzapicabit]] ([[User talk:Tuzapicabit|talk]]) 11:52, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
::Have dug up some references for "Goodbye Nothin' To Say", so will add ASAP. Also need to add the early Target singles. I think there's a reference to Love Songs in some of the material I found earlier this week, will check. Thanks again for the information! [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 12:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Goodbye Nothin' To Say is now in the discography table. When this has been expanded a bit with late 80s releases (next major task on the list), I'll also add some text referring to them in the main article. There's a bunch of different compilations with the same 12 hits on it, which I suspect are the re-recordings -- need to investigate further and gather some references. The recent interviews with Anne Nolan re her book have been useful in providing meatier references for early career activity, but don't have much to say on this subject. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 13:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 
== Note re editing and copyright problem ==
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Sorry 'bout that, see my talk page for response.--[[User:Tuzapicabit|Tuzapicabit]] ([[User talk:Tuzapicabit|talk]]) 15:23, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
::OK, this has been done now and the page is free of copied text. The number of changes needed wasn't as great as I'd thought, though earlier edits represent much closer copies of the EPM text. Also added reference to the '89 re-release, removed "Harry" from the singles list until someone can prove it exists, added some Australian chart positions, added citations for a couple of other facts already in place and put in some basic information on pre-1979 releases. These still need to go in the discography at some point, once there's agreement on a good ongoing format for it, along with the 80s Hallmark release and most post-1990 compilations.
::Also made a slight edit to the labels list -- listing every label (especially those for the re-releases) would make an unwieldy and not very informative list, but other contributors have complained that just having four labels listed is unrepresentative by omission. The current version, listing Epic and Teichku (the labels which had the majority of new material) and Target (highest-charting album) and then adding "and others" seems a reasonable compromise to me. Thoughts? [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 04:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 
== Discography proposal ==
 
With most of the article now sourced (and tagged for the remaining problem facts), the area that now most urgently needs work is the discography (to add missing singles and albums and add references for the non-charting releases that are in there). However, before adding these in, I'd propose the following new structure for the discography tables, as more informative and consistent with general Wikipedia practice:
 
Singles: Title, Year, Label, UK chart, Japan chart*, Ireland chart, Australia chart, Japan sales*
 
Albums: Title, Year, Label, UK chart, Japan chart*, Japan sales*
 
(Categories tagged * are currently unsourced and may have to be removed eventually, but I'm happy to keep them there for now and continue searching for a source -- I don't think there's a question that they would be relevant if we can source them properly.)
 
As well as a more logical order, this adds a label column for the singles and makes room for Australian and Irish chart data (the latter easily available online). It eliminates the source album column, but this is already largely covered in the body text (and the two exceptions can easily be incorporated). It eliminates the vocalist column, but this is (1) unsourced (2) very repetitive. Note also that Wikipedia consensus seems to be that discographies aren't supposed to be exhaustive trivia on albums or songs, just the key verifiable facts. (The more successful albums should probably get their own separate articles at some point.)
 
I've left Australia and Ireland off the albums table as there's no data for the latter and the two charting albums in Australia are already in the body text -- adding an entire column just for those two figures would lead to unwieldiness.
 
Just putting this out there for suggestions before making the change. Ultimately the discography may end up as a separate article anyway, but this is still a good step towards that. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 03:55, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:OK, have made the changes to the album discography. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 05:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
::And also the singles. Next step: add sourced records not mentioned here to the discography (and to text where appropriate).
:::Done for vinyl singles. Japan-only CD singles need to be done, along with albums (a somewhat bigger task). [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 11:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 
== Japanese sales figures and chart numbers ==
 
The lack of sources for the claimed Japanese sales figures in the discography is very problematic, especially as they are so specific. Getting accurate information on Japanese sales is hard, and what data I can find online conflicts. For instance, the article currently claims (without a source) that "I'm In The Mood For Dancing" has sold 673,850 copies in Japan. The same figure is found in [[List of best-selling singles in Japan]], which does list some general external sources. Of these, however, the only one with an [http://www2.wbs.ne.jp/~ms-db/oricon/japan%20no1%20single%2068-.htm actual Nolans sales number] gives a different figure -- 409,250. It's hard for me to assess the reliability of a source page largely in Japanese (it offers lower totals for other artists as well, so it may be using a slightly different source for sales data), but it clearly demonstrates that the numbers can't be taken for granted. (The article text currently cites the book ''In The Mood For Success'' which claims 600,000+ sales, which seems an OK interim compromise to me.)
 
Similarly [http://bbs.mariahcn.com/simple/index.php?t47488.html this site] claims the Nolans had three #1 albums in Japan and spent 21 weeks at number one in total on the album charts. No source for the information is listed and there are no title details, so we really can't treat it as more than indicative, but note that we only have one Japanese #1 album listed in the discography.
 
Also problematic is the much-repeated claim that the Nolans outsold the Beatles with 9 million records sold in Japan. We're never told how many copies the Beatles are meant to have sold by comparison or over what period, and no source for the number's ever been given that I can find.
 
The total of all the numbers reported here (and again, remember these have no source) is 2.8 million, which is a substantial gap. We might assume the remaining numbers are made up from sales post-1983 -- but then, in [http://www.bbc.co.uk/threecounties/content/articles/2005/05/11/blood_brothers_linda_nolan_feature.shtml this interview] Linda quotes a lower number (8 million) but says that was in their first two years of activity in Japan -- more or less the same period covered by the numbers here. In one way, Linda's is a less substantial claim (it allows that the Beatles have probably sold more in Japan by now), but it suggests much higher initial sales than even the current discography numbers claim. ''In The Mood For Success'' suggests the Beatles-beating claim only relates to "I'm In The Mood For Dancing", but again doesn't offer a proper basis for the comparison.
 
The bottom line: can anyone point to any citable resources (perhaps in print) with reliable Japanese sales totals or chart data? In the absence of any extra evidence, my current feeling is that the sales figure column from the discography should certainly be removed, and the chart positions (other than the uncontested #1 status of "I'm In The Mood For Dancing") should probably go too. The current text about the Beatles comparison makes it evident that this is a frequent PR claim rather than a well-documented fact, but could also use some work to reflect the various uncertainties.
 
Anyway, wanted to raise all this here before making those changes. Thoughts? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gusworld|contribs]]) 11:35, 22 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
: Sales figures are always a minefield and I would reckon you're better off ditching them - you'll probably never find anything fully reliable. One quick point, you list The Nolan Sisters album at No.3 in the UK and 15 in Japan - should that be the other way round? I know it only got to 15 in the UK, but unsure of where in Japan. Good work on the early releases though. I remember seeing "All The Kings Horses" being performed on a TV programme around April/May 1979 - I thought it was probably a single, but that's just guesswork. I take it you found no mention of it anywhere?--[[User:Tuzapicabit|Tuzapicabit]] ([[User talk:Tuzapicabit|talk]]) 16:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
::Good catch on the UK chart figure, must have got inverted during editing at some point. The Japanese chart positions are effectively unsourced, so no way of knowing if they're actually right (and hence they'll shortly be history). Haven't found any references to a single release of "All The Kings Horses" -- given the frequency with which the Nolans did TV guest appearances in the 70s and early 80s, single promo might not have been mandatory. [[User:Gusworld|Gusworld]] ([[User talk:Gusworld|talk]]) 03:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 
don't know if i'm doing this right, but thansk for cleaning up the article and removing lots of the fake bootleg stuff. this nolan3008/kmc character, is a really silly little boy. he does this on various popstar websites i vist.
 
thanks again :) <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.145.142.252|86.145.142.252]] ([[User talk:86.145.142.252|talk]]) 11:42, 27 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
==Coleen==
It says on here that Colleen joined the group in 1980. How is this possible when she is in the video for 'I'm in the mood for dancing' which was released in 1979? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.130.89.64|86.130.89.64]] ([[User talk:86.130.89.64|talk]]) 16:07, 26 February 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
: Yes a bit confusing since she also appears on the album cover from the same time, but according to sister Anne, Coleen didn't take part on the recordings at that time. She officially became a member around "Don't Make Waves" when Anne left.--[[User:Tuzapicabit|Tuzapicabit]] ([[User talk:Tuzapicabit|talk]]) 00:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 
*Coleen apears on the 'Nolan Sisters' album, solo on "Thank You For The Music" and solo parts on "Bright Eyes". She was too young to appear on TV at the time, and joined the group "officially" in 1980 when she was approaching 16. She had been in the group from the start, but the main focus was on the older sisters. In 1978 the record company made failed attempts to push Coleen as a solo artist. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:92.4.41.199|92.4.41.199]] ([[User talk:92.4.41.199|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/92.4.41.199|contribs]]) 12:23, 31 May 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
 
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