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{{Template talk:Weather box/HelpBox}}
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{{Archive box |search=yes |bot=MiszaBot II |age=3 |units=months |auto=long |index=/Archive index}}
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:I've noticed "Mean maximum" and "Mean daily maximum" on Wikipedia lately. I don't understand what they mean. Can anyone provide a formula? [[Special:Contributions/24.52.231.186|24.52.231.186]] ([[User talk:24.52.231.186|talk]]) 03:01, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
::It looks like a lot of people are coming here with the exact same question--I know I am! Skimming through the comments above, it looks like there is quite the debate on this. I don't think anyone really cares about the hottest temperature reached in a given month, though most people would like to know what the typical high temperature for a month is--which is what has always been listed for 'average high'--I definitely think you should just keep it simple and continue with what has always been listed--'average low' and 'average high.' [[Special:Contributions/98.97.141.180|98.97.141.180]] ([[User talk:98.97.141.180|talk]]) 00:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
:::I agree with this comment 100%. The people making the decisions on nomenclature are myopic and seem to truely, but erroneously, believe that all Wikipedia users are as pedantic as themselves and do not want, or even need, to just see the "average high" and "average low" for any given month.
:::This apparent "low brow" naming is well understood by the majority of people I've polled at work and in the pub, and has sufficed for eons.
:::The biggest gripe has been that people do not wish to go searching Google for explanations on the difference between "mean maximum", "mean daily maximun" and "daily mean".
:::It feels like the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
:::The old adage,if it ain't broke don't fix it would seem to be entirely apt here. [[User:Jonda2282|Jonda2282]] ([[User talk:Jonda2282|talk]]) 14:28, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
::::A few things to remember.
::::First, the old adage "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" applies here. Especially when you are trying to persuade Wikipedia editors, who are freely donating their time, to change to some other terminology. In other words people will respond better when you treat them with the respect that I'm sure you would like to receive.
::::Second, the "people making the decisions on nomenclature are" not Wikipedia editors. The wording comes from meteorological organizations and from the [[World Meteorological Organization]]. Perhaps you should tell them they are "myopic" and inquire what they believe about Wikipedia readers.
::::Third, what you, or I want to see in the infobox is immaterial. The information is available from meteorological organizations and consensus, of Wikipedia editors, decides what is used. I could say that I surveyed the people at my work and they all though it was some of the best information on Wikipedia. Of course the 8 people at work who all do weather observations for a living are probably a bit biased.
::::Fourth, pointing out "it's bad" or "it's unclear" and not giving suggestions for improvement isn't helpful in the long run. We could use https://collaboration.cmc.ec.gc.ca/cmc/climate/Normals/Canadian_Climate_Normals_1991_2020_Calculation_Information.pdf as the basis for an explanation of what is meant by mean daily maximum. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] (solidly non-human), [[User talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Uqaqtuq (talk)]], [[Special:Contributions/CambridgeBayWeather|Huliva]] 22:12, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
==Solar exposure MJ/m2==
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As solar energy is increasingly important this is now often collected by meteorology organisations.
== class="notheme" ==
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{{ping|Seddon}} You edited [[Module:Weather box/row]] on 3 April 2023 ([[Special:Diff/1147938351|diff]]) to add class="notheme" to each row of the table output. The edit summary was "Temporary fix to solve theming in Page Content Service". I don't want a full explanation but can you outline what that is about? Presumably the temporary fix is still needed? I'm planning to update the module soon and am trying to understand changes since I last examined the module. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 04:49, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
:It has been confirmed ([[Special:Diff/1188753801|diff]]) that notheme is permanently wanted in [[Module:Weather box/row]]. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 23:49, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
== possible sunshine ==
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:Does that help? – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 02:53, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
::So the coloring is also based off of how many days are in the month? Also in the second one February is still darker than March. [[User:Akamaikai|Akamaikai]] ([[User talk:Akamaikai|talk]]) 16:03, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, it is based on a daily rate rather than a cumulative amount per month. As for the color difference, it looks like February is #000054 and March is #00005C, which is a tiny difference that I would chalk up to rounding. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 17:30, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
{{notelist-talk}}
::See also [[Template_talk:Weather_box/Archive_2#Misleading_colours_for_precipitation|this archive thread]] (2008) and [[Template_talk:Weather_box/Archive_8#Snow_row_coloring_unequal_across_months|this archive thread]] (2018) and the "month_adj" function in [[Module:Weather box/row]]. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 03:18, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
== Maximum of only 2 sources for weather boxes ==
I brought up how I was unable to add a third source for a weather box on the wiki help desk and was told that the maximum amount of sources is 2 and advised that if I want to suggest it be changed to allow a further source to bring it up here.
In my past couple of weeks editing in wikipedia I have had to give up on improving many weather boxes where I may have additional data such as temperature records or they have incomplete data as there are already 2 sources. If weather boxes could have at least 3 sources that would solve this problem. Is there a reason why the maximum is 2? [[User:Javier1957|Javier1957]] ([[User talk:Javier1957|talk]]) 04:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
:See if [[Template talk:Weather box/Archive 9#More than 2 sources?]] works. It's limited to two only because no one has got around to enhancing it although I think some previous discussions have shown that some people prefer to use only the first source line. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 06:03, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you. I looked at the link you sent but I wasn't able to see how those pages included more than 2 sources as they are written only as "{'{Edmonton City Center weatherbox}}" for example. Are you able to explain or send me a link to somewhere to learn how to put multiple in the first source line? Earlier I spent an hour or so playing around but I wasn't successful. Cheers
::[[User:Javier1957|Javier1957]] ([[User talk:Javier1957|talk]]) 09:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Now that I look at it, I see that it is very ugly. A quick outline is that you would click, for example, the [[Edmonton#Climate]] link. The first weatherbox has various sources and you need to see the wikitext that was used to generate them. Click "Edit" next to the Climate heading. Searching through that shows that the wikitext is not there. Instead, we see <code><nowiki>{{Edmonton City Centre weatherbox}}</nowiki></code>. That is a [[Help:Template|template]]. The easiest way to see them is to now click Preview. Near the bottom of the screen you might be able to see "Templates used in this preview" where you can find [[Template:Edmonton City Centre weatherbox]]. Clicking that shows the template which you can edit to see the wikitext. It's a real mess and I would never have been able to follow it until I had been doing this sort of thing for months. It looks like this:
:::<code><nowiki>|source 1 = TEXT1<ref>REF1</ref>, TEXT2<ref>REF2</ref>, TEXT3<ref>REF3</ref></nowiki></code>
:::[[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 10:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Thank you for your help. I've only been editing for a couple of weeks so it was very difficult for me to follow but the way you have written it worked well and I was able to add more than 2 sources. Cheers [[User:Javier1957|Javier1957]] ([[User talk:Javier1957|talk]]) 23:45, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Also check {{tl|Yellowknife weatherbox}} which has three sources as "source 1" (all to Environment and Climate Change Canada or ECCC) and one source for "source 2" because it is a different organization from the first. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] (solidly non-human), [[User talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Uqaqtuq (talk)]], [[Special:Contributions/CambridgeBayWeather|Huliva]] 19:49, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
== "Mean maximum" and "Mean daily maximum" are confusing ==
Yes I know this has been discussed before, but it's still an issue. I've spent 30-40mins reading comments and looking up parameter text and template docs just figuring out what these two row descriptions are meant to mean. My suggestion is to align the template text with the parameter text. So "Mean maximum" becomes "Average record high" and "Mean daily maximum" becomes "Average high". Regardless of whether changes are ever made, or what they are made to be (because I don't think everyone will ever be happy with the terms used, based on the prior circuitous discussions) I'd also recommend adding notes that appear at the bottom of the template (below "Source:...") explaining what each of the terms in question mean. These notes could be added now while time is taken to determine the best course of action on the proper wording for these rows. [[Special:Contributions/172.59.64.42|172.59.64.42]] ([[User talk:172.59.64.42|talk]]) 02:25, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:Im not thrilled about the change we made, but i can't say ''average record high'' would be any clearer. It sounds like a contradiction in terms. A monthly ''record'' is not the highest temperature recorded in a 30-day period, it's the highest temperature recorded in every instance of that 30-day period each calendar year. [[user:Soap|—]]<span style="background-color: #a6ffe0; padding: 3px; border-radius: 6px 6px 6px 6px;"><b>[[user talk:Soap|Soap]]</b></span>[[Special:Contributions/Soap|—]] 13:44, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
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