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== Administrators' newsletter – September 2024 ==
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| image = Sunflower against sky, Ehrenbach.jpg
| image_upright = 0.8
| bold = [[User:Gerda Arendt/Top|story]] · [[User talk:Gerda Arendt#Music|music]] · [[User:Gerda Arendt/Places and songs 2024#
}}
Per calendar, [[Jesu, der du meine Seele, BWV 78|BWV 78]] is 300 years today! = [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#10 Sep|my story]] -- [[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 14:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
Three stories related to today in memory, [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#11 Sep|11 September]], [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#20 Jul|20 July]] and [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#20 Jun|20 June]], the latter piece of art also pictured on the Main page. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 20:04, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Today is [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#13 Sep|Schoenberg's 150th birthday]]! On display, portrayed by [[Egon Schiele]], with a DYK hook from 2010 and another from 2014, about his 40th birthday, appeared on his 140th birthday. - See ''places'' for a stunning sunrise, on the day [[Anton Bruckner|Bruckner]]'s 200th birthday was celebrated (a few days late). --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 11:43, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
== Attack page ==
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:@[[User:Colin|Colin]] you could delete that and make a new link you use in your response. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 19:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
Thank you Barkeep, [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]], [[User:Valereee|Valereee]] and [[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] for considering my case as fairly as you can. I can only conclude that all four of you must have been terrible people in a previous life, and brought back to spend your evenings moderating the bickering of folk on the internet. -- [[User:Colin|Colin]]°[[User talk:Colin|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 21:08, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
:Thanks for closing, I did think we had a consensus for a general reminder re: AGF though. [[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] ([[User talk:Vanamonde93|talk]]) 21:52, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] Did we? You and I agreed, SFR was ambivalent to negative and Valereee didn't really comment on it. I'm obviously not opposed but I'm not sure it was there. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 21:56, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I guess I see [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=1245936683&diff=1245948753 this] as assent, but we can just ask {{U|ScottishFinnishRadish|him}}. [[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] ([[User talk:Vanamonde93|talk]]) 22:02, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I'm pretty ambivalent. I don't think it does much, but I didn't want to hold up a possible consensus. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 23:13, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] if you want to amend a statement to my close please do so. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 00:15, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::Thank you, I will make a minimal amendment. [[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] ([[User talk:Vanamonde93|talk]]) 00:40, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
== AE, travel ==
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::I really don't understand how AE works. One doesn't get the impression that concerns of POV pushing are being taken seriously here. I will not be filing a separate report. [[User:IOHANNVSVERVS|IOHANNVSVERVS]] ([[User talk:IOHANNVSVERVS|talk]]) 19:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Arbitration Enforcement is designed to be a board with structured discussion about editor behavior in certain (Arbcom approved) places. A problem with many Palestine-Israel reports there is that it attempts to turn it into a wide ranging discussion about many editors' behavior. AE does not do that well. And so with your report there was an attempt to keep the discussion focused - which in this case was on the edit warring presented by the filer. The ask for a separate report is showing it's being taken seriously. Rather than nothing happening because it is buried as a small part of a large discussion of which it is not the focus, its own report means that conduct would be the focus. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 19:45, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::::Serious allegations were made and they were ignored. That seems rather [[WP:BURO|bureaucratic]] (in the sense of being "overly concerned with procedure at the expense of efficiency or common sense").
::::I don't intend to be argumentative and I'm just registering my disappointment. I have a lot of respect for the individual admins who respond at AE, but AE itself has something wrong with it. There seem to be inconsistencies with how things are done there, and I'd like to ask if there is somewhere where all the rules etc governing AE are written.
::::Thank you for your time Barkeep, and know that I take seriously the warning I recieved for edit warring/1RR. [[User:IOHANNVSVERVS|IOHANNVSVERVS]] ([[User talk:IOHANNVSVERVS|talk]]) 20:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::I can understand why as a non-frequent participant you're not seeing it this way, but it is my sincere belief that Vanamonde's suggestion was correct: filing a seperate report ''was'' the right answer for efficiency. If someone were to file a report today that was straight forward in the way the report just closed was, there's a great chance that the total time to close both would be less than the time it takes to close the sprawled report about IntrepidContributor. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 20:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::Could I file a report saying simply "In a previous AE report, I made a statement alleging misconduct by user(s) x. I was told to submit a separate report to address these concerns. Here is my statement and note that there were statements by other editors in the IOHANNVSVERVS report which are relevant to this report."
::::::And should two or three separate reports be filed or can my concerns about the three editors be dealt with in the one report?
::::::Thank you, [[User:IOHANNVSVERVS|IOHANNVSVERVS]] ([[User talk:IOHANNVSVERVS|talk]]) 21:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::The most successful reports have specific diffs with easy to understand explanation of why those diffs present a problem - that was something the report that just closed did well. So "read a whole bunch of other stuff to find what was relevant" won't be successful. Nor would "read the statements by me, Levivich, and SashiRolls" because the one that comes closest is SashiRolls [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-SashiRolls-20240911182000-Statement_by_SashiRolls here] but that is just a single diff when the 3 of you are arguing a pattern and the rest are assertions without clear evidence to back them up. Someone needs to compile what the pattern of diffs are. An example of that happening for something somewhat like this is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive339#c-Levivich-20240815014300-Request_concerning_האופה this by Levivich] which, not for nothing, was too late in a thread that had already spiraled. And yes a person can file two or three concerns in a row about similar concerns for different editors. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 21:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::It's unfortunate that serious allegations are ignored unless certain hoops are jumped through.
::::::::I'll ask again if there is somewhere I can read about the rules/procedures/etc regarding AE? [[User:IOHANNVSVERVS|IOHANNVSVERVS]] ([[User talk:IOHANNVSVERVS|talk]]) 21:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::They're not ignored, as much as there have been millions of words written on talk pages and thousands upon thousands of edits. Without a clear demonstration of what exactly the problem is its very difficult to suss out. [[User:ScottishFinnishRadish|ScottishFinnishRadish]] ([[User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish|talk]]) 22:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::They've not been ignored? Three users reported concerns about a user's conduct but these concerns have not been responded to or addressed.
::::::::::"Without a clear demonstration of what exactly the problem is"? The allegations were very clear in identifying what the problem is. [[User:IOHANNVSVERVS|IOHANNVSVERVS]] ([[User talk:IOHANNVSVERVS|talk]]) 20:22, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::Sorry for missing that question earlier. I wish there was a good tutorial for learning about AE. The rules and procedures are written in the box labeled "Important information". But how to write effective AE reports is something that doesn't exist as far as I know. However, most of the advice on how to write an effective [[Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Party_Guide/Case_request#Making_a_statement_at_a_case_request|ArbCom statement]] would also apply to AE. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 23:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
:Very clear evidence was presented that user x was misrepresenting the source you provided and which he and user y repeatedly reverted. His claim that the variant on the [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/cleft-sentences-it-was-in-june-we-got-married wh-cleft structure] "What happened in 1948" was vague was shown to be false as it was clearly defined in the source as "massacres and expulsions at gunpoint" "which led to over 80 per cent of the Palestinian population being violently forced to flee". What BK49 seems not to want to say is that it is easier for AE admins to treat AE as though it were WP:AN3 where simple revert-counting is normally addressed. I too was sorry to see that the complaint was not treated seriously, as the evidence presented was very clear and in the context of a larger complaint it will likely be successfully muddied. While someone could reinitiate the same case with exactly the same evidence, mentioning both user x and user y, it would have been much simpler to give a 1RR warning without falsely claiming that you were unilaterally edit-warring when there were {{purple|three}} people involved, counting user x (who made claims on the talk page) and user y (who did not).-- [[User:SashiRolls | SashiRolls]] <sup>[[User_talk:SashiRolls | 🌿 ]] · [[Special:Contributions/SashiRolls| 🍥]]</sup> 21:00, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
::The reason I haven't said {{tqq|What BK49 seems not to want to say is that it is easier for AE admins to treat AE as though it were WP:AN3 where simple revert-counting is normally addressed}} is because I don't think it's true. Instead I think {{tqq|The ask for a separate report is showing it's being taken seriously. Rather than nothing happening because it is buried as a small part of a large discussion of which it is not the focus, its own report means that conduct would be the focus.}} [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 15:37, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
== Just making sure ==
I was going through my contributions, and the edits I did to an AN/I hat was revdel'd. Did I do something wrong? [[User:Babysharkboss2|<span style="color: red; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Babysharkboss2!!</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Babysharkboss2|<span style="color:black">Nomad Vagabond</span>]])</sup> 12:57, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{Tps}} {{u|Babysharkboss2}}, looks like your edit was caught up in a revdel of material added to the Kautilya3 thread by Ms Sarah Welch. Your contributions came between the addition of the material and its removal. [[User:Folly Mox|Folly Mox]] ([[User talk:Folly Mox|talk]]) 14:15, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
::Oh. So I didn't do anything wrong? [[User:Babysharkboss2|<span style="color: red; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Babysharkboss2!!</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Babysharkboss2|<span style="color:black">Nomad Vagabond</span>]])</sup> 14:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Correct. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 15:24, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
::::oh, ok! Thanks! [[User:Babysharkboss2|<span style="color: red; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Babysharkboss2!!</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Babysharkboss2|<span style="color:black">Nomad Vagabond</span>]])</sup> 15:49, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
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