Wikispecies:Village Pump
Welcome to the village pump of Wikispecies.
This page is a place to ask questions or discuss the project. If you need an admin, please see the Administrators' Noticeboard. If you need to solicit feedback, see Request for Comment. Please sign and date your post (by typing ~~~~ or clicking the signature icon in the edit toolbar). Use the Wikispecies IRC channel for real-time chat.
If you're going to critique the work of fellow editors (blatant vandals excepted) in your post on this page, you should notify them, either by mentioning them with a {{Reply to}}
If you insert links to Wikipedia pages in your comments, don't forget the leading colon (:) before the wiki language code (including when you reference a remote user page instead of using a local signature), otherwise it will generate spurious interwiki links collected in the sidebar instead of in the expected location within the discussion. Thanks.
Village pump in other languages:
 Archives | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | (2004-09-21/2005-01-05) | 2 | (2005-01-05/2005-08-23) |
| 3 | (2005-08-24/2005-12-31) | 4 | (2006-01-01/2005-05-31) |
| 5 | (2006-06-01/2006-12-16) | 6 | (2006-12-17/2006-12-31) |
| 7 | (2007-01-01/2007-02-28) | 8 | (2007-03-01/2007-04-30) |
| 9 | (2007-05-01/2007-08-31) | 10 | (2007-09-01/2007-10-31) |
| 11 | (2007-11-01/2007-12-31) | 12 | (2008-01-01/2008-02-28) |
| 13 | (2008-03-01/2008-04-28) | 14 | (2008-04-29/2008-06-30) |
| 15 | (2008-07-01/2008-09-30) | 16 | (2008-10-01/2008-12-25) |
| 17 | (2008-12-26/2009-02-28) | 18 | (2009-03-01/2009-06-30) |
| 19 | (2009-07-01/2009-12-31) | 20 | (2010-01-01/2010-06-30) |
| 21 | (2010-07-01/2010-12-31) | 22 | (2011-01-01/2011-06-30) |
| 23 | (2011-07-01/2011-12-31) | 24 | (2012-01-01/2012-12-31) |
| 25 | (2013-01-01/2013-12-31) | 26 | (2014-01-01/2014-12-31) |
| 27 | (2015-01-01/2015-01-31) | 28 | (2015-02-01/2015-02-28) |
| 29 | (2015-02-28/2015-04-29) | 30 | (2015-04-29/2015-07-19) |
| 31 | (2015-07-19/2015-09-23) | 32 | (2015-09-23/2015-11-21) |
| 33 | (2015-11-21/2015-12-31) | 34 | (2016-01-01/2016-04-17) |
| 35 | (2016-03-22/2016-05-01) | 36 | (2016-05-01/2016-07-12) |
| 37 | (2016-07-13/2016-09-30) | 38 | (2016-10-01/2016-12-04) |
| 39 | (2016-12-04/2017-01-17) | 40 | (2017-01-18/2017-01-28) |
| 41 | (2017-01-29/2017-02-13) | 42 | (2017-02-14/2017-03-21) |
| 43 | (2017-03-20/2017-08-11) | 44 | (2017-08-10/2017-12-07) |
| 45 | (2017-12-08/2018-01-08) | 46 | (2018-01-19/2018-03-11) |
| 47 | (2018-03-11/2018-09-11) | 48 | (2018-09-01/2019-02-17) |
| 49 | (2019-02-22/2019-06-18) | 50 | (2019-06-19/2019-10-06) |
| 51 | (2019-10-07/2019-12-23) | 52 | (2019-12-24/2020-04-03) |
| 53 | (2020-04-03/2020-07-16) | 54 | (2020-07-17/2020-09-05) |
| 55 | (2020-09-08/2020-11-27) | 56 | (2020-11-27/2021-06-21) |
| 57 | (2021-06-05/2021-09-24) | 58 | (2021-09-25/2022-01-24) |
| 59 | (2022-01-26/2022-02-27) | 60 | (2022-02-27/2022-04-13) |
| 61 | (2022-04-14/2022-05-10) | 62 | (2022-07-01/2023-12-17) |
| 63 | (2022-12-24/2023-04-20) | 64 | (2023-04-20/2023-08-29) |
| 65 | (2023-09-01/2023-12-27) | 66 | (2023-11-18/2024-02-14) |
| 67 | (2024-02-14/2024-06-21) | 68 | (2024-06-22/2024-xx-xx) |
Vote now to fill vacancies of the first U4C
- You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to your language
Dear all,
I am writing to you to let you know the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is open now through August 10, 2024. Read the information on the voting page on Meta-wiki to learn more about voting and voter eligibility.
The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please review the U4C Charter.
Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well.
In cooperation with the U4C,
RamzyM (WMF) 02:46, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
| I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC) |
Collapse Taxonavigation
Help me out please, on this family level taxon Hybophthiridae it presents with the hierarchy as full, i.e. all higher taxa listed - but in families of various taxa I think this is better presented as collapsed. I would like this "Taxonavigation" also to be shown as collapsed, but no matter what I try - it won't collapse, what am I failing to do? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sjl197 (talk • contribs) 01:26, 18 August 2024 (UTC).
- Use the taxotemplate
{{Hybophthiridae}}. The magic word "taxonav" (only for templates of families) results in the collapsed taxobox. --Thiotrix (talk) 07:49, 18 August 2024 (UTC)- Thanks for the fixes - it was one of those where just got blind to what/where the error was. Cheers! Sjl197 (talk) 19:50, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
| I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:21, 26 August 2024 (UTC) |
Maxim Ed. Smirnov
Does anyone happen to know whether the Russian entomologist Maxim Ed. Smirnov (Wikidata: Q31202216) is the same person as "Maksim Eduardovich Smirnov" (Russian: Максим Эдуардович Смирнов) described here on the Beetles (Coleoptera) and coleopterists webpage? It seems most likely, but I'm not 100% sure.
A version in Russian can be found here. It contains a little more information than the English version, but unfortunately I don't speak Russian.
–Tommy Kronkvist (talk) 14:18, 18 August 2024 (UTC).
- Me neither, I don't speak Russian, but within the webpage you give, the place of birth is "Ivanovo, Russia", that matches with the affiliation given in DOI: 10.11646/zootaxa.4276.3.9. And it sound very unlikely that there are two different "Maksim E. Smirnov" both specialist of Coleoptera, both from the same time, and both from the same Russian town. Christian Ferrer (talk) 04:30, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
- Dear Tommy, this is the same person. Anna Pavlova IFPNI Staff (talk) 19:46, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've now renamed the page to Maksim Eduardovich Smirnov. While we're here though, I don't think he is a taxon author at the moment (the only listed article is about phylogeny using DNA barcoding, no changes to nomenclature) so I have requested his "taxa by author" category to be deleted and removed the page from Category:Taxon authorities. Monster Iestyn (talk) 14:48, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
- Dear Tommy, this is the same person. Anna Pavlova IFPNI Staff (talk) 19:46, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
To Christian Ferrer, Anna Pavlova, and Monster Iestyn: Thank you all for your help! I've now added the alternative author name spellings to the Maksim Eduardovich Smirnov page, and deleted Category:Maxim Ed. Smirnov taxa. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk),15:23, 24 August 2024 (UTC).
- Dear Tommy, thank you for your clarifications! Anna IFPNI Staff (talk) 20:30, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
| I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:21, 26 August 2024 (UTC) |
Cactus expert needed
This discussion on Commons: Commons:Village pump#Cactus_expert_needed has implications for Wikispecies. Please comment there. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:44, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
Sign up for the language community meeting on August 30th, 15:00 UTC
Hi all,
The next language community meeting is scheduled in a few weeks—on August 30th at 15:00 UTC. If you're interested in joining, you can sign up on this wiki page.
This participant-driven meeting will focus on sharing language-specific updates related to various projects, discussing technical issues related to language wikis, and working together to find possible solutions. For example, in the last meeting, topics included the Language Converter, the state of language research, updates on the Incubator conversations, and technical challenges around external links not working with special characters on Bengali sites.
Do you have any ideas for topics to share technical updates or discuss challenges? Please add agenda items to the document here and reach out to ssethi(__AT__)wikimedia.org. We look forward to your participation!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:18, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
A Useful Template, Author Pages and Protologes.
Due to a recent and unfortunate incident that nearly lead to some unpleasantness, I would like to advocate the use of {{Workpage}} whilst editing a taxon page and if you are leaving the page to return soon. This will indicate to fellow editors that you intend to return and continue your work and they need to edit with care. Please remember to remove the template when finished!
I also have become a fan of the Author pages, particularly when looking for protologues. I commend those responsible for curating these pages and strongly advise others to use these pages and contribute to them. A good example is found by following this link Benth..
Taxonomically the Protologue (Primary Reference) is a very important piece of information and I would urge fellow editors to please provide this to our readers. Many plant PRs can be found on IPNI or BHL. I also would suggest that we create a reference template wherever possible.
Thanks and best regards Andyboorman (talk) 07:35, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
{{In use}}also exists. perhaps that and{{Workpage}}should be merged? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:21, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
Death of Stephen Thorpe, New Zealand
Since it has not yet been mentioned here, I thought I would copy to Wikispecies this post of yesterday by Geoff Read on the Taxacom list server. We may have found Stephen somewhat fractious in his actions concerning Wikispecies, leading to his eventual departure from the project, but his dedication to the cause of documenting biodiversity was never in doubt. My interactions with Stephen were mainly via Taxacom - I never met him in person but I have no reason to believe that his beliefs (and sometimes slightly abrasive communication style) were anything but genuine according to his own view of things. RIP Stephen. Regards - Tony Rees. Tony 1212 (talk) 19:14, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
From: Geoff Read via Taxacom
26 Aug 2024, 09:45
to Taxacom
Dear all,
It is with great sadness that today I inform you that Stephen Thorpe has died (a homicide) in Auckland, New Zealand.Stephen was a unique person who greatly enriched Taxacom with his lively contributions, depth of knowledge, and tenacious advance of strong opinions.He was also incredibly dedicated to entomology and to working on online platforms like Wikipedia and iNaturalist. We know because he told us so that he was bordering on autistic, and we have seen over the years how this affected his success in his professional working life.He kept doing the work he loved nevertheless. The news story paints a picture of his daily life in recent times. We will much miss Stephen's contributions to our list. Goodbye Stephen. You were always good value to argue with.
https://www.inaturalist.org/people/stephen_thorpe
Geoff Read
- See also Wikispecies:Administrators'_Noticeboard#Stephen_E._Thorpe. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:54, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- Anyone interested in following the tributes to Stephen via the Taxacom List can find these via https://lists.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom/2024-August/thread.html (and possibly continuing next month, who knows...) - Regards Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 06:01, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- He was already inactive when I started here, but it's impossible to miss the traces of his passage here, so it's impossible not to be sad, sadness accentuated by the shocking circumstances of his death. R.I.P. Christian Ferrer (talk) 12:07, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- Such terrible news. There is now also a Wikipedia article about Stephen: en:Stephen E. Thorpe, and people are starting to write articles there about the species named after him. There are also over 460 of his images, on Commons. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:17, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- Update: Stephen Thorpe's funeral funeral
- Person of interest detained: [1] Neferkheperre (talk) 13:09, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Accessing paywalled articles via wikispecies
I know it can be done, it's detailed in the archives . . . somewhere! But where?? Can we have a 'pinned' link somewhere easily findable, please! Thanks! - MPF (talk) 23:05, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- Wikispecies:Wikipedia Library. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:13, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you, Andy Mabbett. Maybe we should add this info to the top of Category:Sources? --Thiotrix (talk) 07:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Good idea. Done. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:08, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Excellent, thanks! - MPF (talk) 00:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- Good idea. Done. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:08, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you, Andy Mabbett. Maybe we should add this info to the top of Category:Sources? --Thiotrix (talk) 07:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Good initiative. Thank you both. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 08:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC).
- Thanks! I also put it on my user page - MPF (talk) 23:53, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Announcing the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee
- Original message at wikimedia-l. You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to your language
Hello all,
The scrutineers have finished reviewing the vote and the Elections Committee have certified the results for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) special election.
I am pleased to announce the following individual as regional members of the U4C, who will fulfill a term until 15 June 2026:
- North America (USA and Canada)
- Ajraddatz
The following seats were not filled during this special election:
- Latin America and Caribbean
- Central and East Europe (CEE)
- Sub-Saharan Africa
- South Asia
- The four remaining Community-At-Large seats
Thank you again to everyone who participated in this process and much appreciation to the candidates for your leadership and dedication to the Wikimedia movement and community.
Over the next few weeks, the U4C will begin meeting and planning the 2024-25 year in supporting the implementation and review of the UCoC and Enforcement Guidelines. You can follow their work on Meta-Wiki.
On behalf of the U4C and the Elections Committee,
Have your say: Vote for the 2024 Board of Trustees!
Hello all,
The voting period for the 2024 Board of Trustees election is now open. There are twelve (12) candidates running for four (4) seats on the Board.
Learn more about the candidates by reading their statements and their answers to community questions.
When you are ready, go to the SecurePoll voting page to vote. The vote is open from September 3rd at 00:00 UTC to September 17th at 23:59 UTC.
To check your voter eligibility, please visit the voter eligibility page.
Best regards,
The Elections Committee and Board Selection Working Group
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:13, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Wikispecies' 20th anniversary
20 years ago, on 5 September, there was a meeting of the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation (comprising five members at the time), with Angela Beesley, Florence Devouard, Tim Shell and Jimbo Wales, that took place on IRC: foundation:Minutes:2004-09-05.
It discussed the launch of Wikispecies as a Wikimedia project, within the Wikimedia movement. The project was proposed to the community by Benedikt Mandl (User:Benedikt, wikidata:Q15154734), an Austrian zoologist and project manager, in early August 2004 in the Wikipedia-l mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2004-August/016403.html
10 years ago, Wikispecies celebrated its 10th anniversary on 14 September.
Here are the topics at the Village Pump about it, initiated by Dan Koehl and OhanaUnited:
- Wikispecies:Village pump/Archive 26#10th anniversary
- Wikispecies:Village pump/Archive 26#10 year anniversary
Conflicting information about the project's launch date can be found on various projects, as a development stage was initiated and discussed before Wikispecies became a Wikimedia project. The words used ("launched", "inception") and the lack of clarity about the predevelopment phase and the relationship with Wikimedia can also add to the confusion:
- wikipedia:en:Wikispecies: "launched in August 2004" [2]
- meta:Wikispecies: "launched on September 5, 2004" [3]
- wikidata:Q13679 (Wikispecies): "inception: 14 September 2004" [4]
On meta:List of Wikimedia birthdays, the birthday is marked as "13 September 2004", with the verification status "Verification needed" [5]. This twentieth anniversary can be the occasion to determine it!
I propose to take a tour through the archives by sharing a few links:
Messages from Benedikt at the Village Pump about the history of Wikispecies and a suggestion about the birthday
- https://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikispecies:Village_pump/Archive_26#c-Benedikt-2014-04-07T07:46:00.000Z-OhanaUnited-2014-04-07T02:24:00.000Z
- https://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikispecies:Village_pump/Archive_26#c-Benedikt-2014-04-08T12:36:00.000Z-Dan_Koehl-2014-04-07T12:05:00.000Z
First page archived by the Wayback Machine on 10 August 2004
The Main Page, the recent changes page and the first discussions here at the Village Pump back in the day, under the wikipedia.org domain
- https://web.archive.org/web/20040915185919/http://species.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
- https://web.archive.org/web/20040916012323/http://species.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges
- https://web.archive.org/web/20040916185915/http://species.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump
The first edits on this wiki
For information, some Wikimedia projects have created a special page to celebrate their anniversary, or have published a press release. Here are a few examples:
- wikipedia:en:Wikipedia:20th anniversary
- wikidata:Wikidata:Tenth Birthday
- wiktionary:fr:Wiktionnaire:Communiqués de presse/15 ans
In less than two days, on 7 September, Wikimedia Commons will celebrate its 20th birthday too!
Wikispecies' anniversary could come a week later, if we agree on the date. Or perhaps we should consider a period rather than a specific date...
Do you have any ideas of what we could do to celebrate this event?
We have an X (Twitter) account, @Wikispecies, that can be used to promote the event and the project to a wider audience.
I've seen that Benedikt is also on X, so the event could be an opportunity to get in touch with him. Korg (talk) 22:51, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- But (given the problems associated with the current ownership of twitter), is it time to move to bluesky (which, like wikis, is open source, and thus free from individual hegemony)? - MPF (talk) 00:00, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- I support the idea of a birthday page, for PR and history of the project. It should include or link to the Wikispecies milestones, too. --Thiotrix (talk) 07:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Dan Koehl, Korg, MPF, OhanaUnited, and Thiotrix:
I'm the current custodian of our @Wikispecies Twitter account and would be happy to add a tweet regarding our anniversary, but we need of course agree on a specific date first. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 07:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC).- Would seem to me that 14 September is a reasonable date and consistent with the 10th anniversary. Keeps it a little out of the Commons one also. Wikispecies also has a Facebook account by the way. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 10:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. We shouldn't change the date between different anniversaries, haphazardly. – Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 10:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC).
- Perhaps we should consider writing a Diff about Wikispecies for the aniversary. Giving some info about what the wiki has accomplished over the 20 years. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 17:22, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. We shouldn't change the date between different anniversaries, haphazardly. – Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 10:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC).
- Would seem to me that 14 September is a reasonable date and consistent with the 10th anniversary. Keeps it a little out of the Commons one also. Wikispecies also has a Facebook account by the way. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 10:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Dan Koehl, Korg, MPF, OhanaUnited, and Thiotrix:
- Good initiative! Dan Koehl (talk) 15:33, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Sadly, my stepfather passed away very recently, hence unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to tweet about the anniversary in time for September 14th. I made a note about it yesterday though. Better than nothing, I guess: @Wikispecies.
–Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 08:57, 17 September 2024 (UTC).
Social platforms
@MPF: I didn't know about Bluesky, thanks for the info. Do you use it? See also Talk:Main Page#Why (only) Twitter/X account?. Korg (talk) 16:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Only just joined, so I don't know much about it yet, but it is very similar to twitter as of ten years ago. It is open-source software so ± immune to political corruption as there is no owner. But more and more science-related people are moving to Bluesky since the decline of twitter into a far-right neonazi promotion site under Elon Musk's ownership - MPF (talk) 18:08, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
@Faendalimas: Regarding the Facebook account, do you refer to the page https://www.facebook.com/Wikispecies? Do you know who is behind it? Korg (talk) 16:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Korg: I believe @Dan Koehl: has the account for that page. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 23:33, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at it it definitely needs an update though.... Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 00:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- As far as I can see the Facebook group has got seven administrators, including @Dan Koehl, Michael K. Oliver, Scott Thomson, and RLJ, as well as Nicolas Thiercelin and myself. As Scott points out the FB page is in a dire need of an update, regardless... Unfortunately I'm a very infrequent Facebook user these days. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk)‚ 18:07, 16 September 2024 (UTC).
- Looking at it it definitely needs an update though.... Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 00:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
Birthday page, Diff post
@Thiotrix: For the birthday page, how do you see it? What could be its title? Wikispecies:20th birthday, Wikispecies:20th Birthday, Wikispecies:Twentieth birthday, Wikispecies:Twentieth Birthday, Wikispecies:20th anniversary, Wikispecies:20th Anniversary, Wikispecies:Twentieth anniversary, Wikispecies:Twentieth Anniversary, or something else? Korg (talk) 16:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- The best name for me is Wikispecies:20th anniversary, a) in analogy to Wikipedia: 20th anniversary, and b) the year number easier for non-english readers. --Thiotrix (talk) 17:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, I've created the page. Please feel free to modify it or add more information. Korg (talk) 14:35, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
@Faendalimas: Good idea, a Diff post!
Here are a few Diff posts about Wikimedia project anniversaries:
- https://diff.wikimedia.org/2011/01/14/happy-10th-anniversary-wikipedia/
- https://diff.wikimedia.org/2014/09/05/celebrating-the-10th-anniversary-of-wikimedia-commons/
- https://diff.wikimedia.org/2021/01/01/you-are-invited-to-wikipedias-20th-birthday-party/
- https://diff.wikimedia.org/2021/06/15/spanish-wikipedia-celebrates-its-20th-anniversary/
- https://diff.wikimedia.org/2023/11/04/the-alemannic-wikipedia-celebrates-its-20th-anniversary/
- https://diff.wikimedia.org/2023/11/23/celebrating-20-years-of-wikisource-and-3000-years-of-history/
- https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/01/21/celebrating-20-years-of-georgian-wikipedia/
Korg (talk) 16:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks @Korg: for the list of other Diff Posts. I am happy to help coordinate that but would prefer to see it come across as a combined authorship of some of our volunteers. I have written for Diff before and I spoke briefly with one reviewer for them about this and they thought it would be cool. Keeping it simple as "Celevrating Wikispecies: 20 years cataloging life" or something along those lines, I am referring to the Diff here I agree with others above regarding an anniversary page. We would need a couple of representative images to use also. My thought is to use it as an opportunity to shocase what we do and have accomplished, our successes in have interactions with scientists to correct errors in nomenclature we have noticed over the years. We are approaching 1 million taxa and as such are the 2nd largest catalogue of living species second only to CoL however our goals are slightly different to them. Any thoughts or volunteers? I can create a google doc to start wrting it, thats how they preferred it when I wrote the Diff on the Ombuds Commission. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 23:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Is the birthday announcement ready to launch? OhanaUnitedTalk page 02:53, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Faendalimas: Thanks! If you have a Google doc, please share it. A link to Wikispecies:Wikispecies in the literature could be added. Korg (talk) 12:44, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Discussion about the date
@Faendalimas and Tommy Kronkvist: I agree with you about the 14 September date.
In the page m:List of Wikimedia birthdays, the anniversary date of 13 September 2004 for Wikispecies was added by Gregory Varnum in this edit. It is based on the date of the first edit on this wiki, 13 September 2004 at 22:06 (UTC) by JeLuF: see Main Page history.
See the discussion at en:Talk:Wikispecies#Launch date and Plantdrew's comment about the date. Korg (talk) 16:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Other ideas
Just a thought, some sections of the Main Page could possibly be updated: Template:MP pictures (history), Template:Distinguished author 2019-08 or Template:Species of the month (currently using Template:Species-2022-09).
Here are some previous discussions about them at the Village Pump:
- Wikispecies:Village Pump/Archive 44#Endangered species of the month
- Wikispecies:Village Pump/Archive 44#Images on the main page
- Wikispecies:Village Pump/Archive 61#Distinguished author
Korg (talk) 16:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
In my opinion the images are ok, but although I find detailed articles about authors and taxa very very intersting, sorry but there is a very strong inadequacy between Wikispecies:What Wikispecies is not: "Wikispecies is not paragraphs of information about species or taxonomists." and the fact to highlight in the first page exactly "what Wikispecies is not", this sounds a bit wrong. Even if it means putting in the spotlight content, it should be more true Wikispecies based content. Christian Ferrer (talk) 04:19, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- Largely in agreement here I think the Author part can be deleted. I would also like to focus the species on what we do though, "Endangered Sécies" is Conservation Biology, I think I would prefer to highlight newsworthy new species each month and have one plant and one animal (if we get enough mycologists and virologists helping we can do those two but not for now). Although the images are not problematic we should update them from time to time. We could also when it occurs add another section showcasing a notable re-arrangement, ie not necessarily mew species but major works that redistribute the species among families. Sometimes these occur and cause a lot of upheaval, for example when the US Wood Turtle was shown to be related to European Turtles and not to other US Emydine turtles requiring new genera and new subfamilies. Just some thoughts. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 06:53, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- Furthermore Wikispecies based content will be more easily updatable, and therefore could looks more alive. Christian Ferrer (talk) 12:00, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- I would also love us to spotlight endangered species again. :/ —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
I took the liberty of mentioning this on the sitenotice. If others feel like it's a bad idea or poorly-worded, let me know. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:32, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- I subsequently went completely overboard and added 20 birthday cake icons, with the first one using WMF colors (originally made for Wikidata) and the last one having "W", "2", and "0" at the top (originally for Wikipedia). One also has a fish on it, so kinda related. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:41, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Tribe Rhaphidosomatini
Hello everyone! I have a question regarding the correct paternity for the tribe Rhaphidosomatini, which was recently synonymized with Harpactorini by Masonick et al., 2024. My understanding of ICZN rules is somewhat limited, so I’m hoping for some expert guidance.
The paper by Masonick et al. mentions that Rhaphidosomatini was first described by Jeannel, 1919, and indeed Jeannel describes the tribe (Rhaphidosomatini nov.) on page 263. However, according to BioLib, the paternity is given to Distant, 1904, and there is a reference to "Division Raphidosomaria" on page 329.
Therefore, should Distant, 1904 be credited with priority for Rhaphidosomatini, or should Jeannel, 1919 hold paternity because 'Division' does not qualify as a valid taxonomic rank under ICZN rules?
Any help would be greatly appreciated! --Hiouf (talk) 20:27, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- The name as spelled for the level of tribe is attributed to the first person who used it as a tribe with this spelling. Hence it is Jeannel 1919 from my reasing of it. With higher rders they are only respellings of lower orders in this case the Genus Rhaphidosoma Amyot and Serville, 1843 so we attribute the first use of the appropriate ordinal level. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 03:56, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you very much, it clarifies the situation! Cheers. Hiouf (talk) 07:13, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Scott is not quite correct (with due deference): because tribe is only one rank within the "family group" (ICZN Code art. 35: "The family group encompasses all nominal taxa at the ranks of superfamily, family, subfamily, tribe, subtribe, and any other rank below superfamily and above genus that may be desired ([but] see also Article 10.3 for collective groups and ichnotaxa)."), its authorship is that of any person who first used a version of the same name at any of those ranks, not specifically as a tribe, with the termination modified as necessary to suit the particular rank at which the name is applied. However in this case the ranks are the same, I believe. Above superfamily (infraorders, suborders, orders and above) the ICZN Code makes no statement since it does not govern these, however particular authors/taxonomic communities generally have their own ways of doing things at higher taxonomic ranks in practice (in case this helps). Tony 1212 (talk) 18:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Tony 1212: Thanks, this makes sense since nominal tribes often (always?) have the same author than the family/superfamily. In the case of Rhaphidosomatini though, I guess Jeannel, 1919 remains the correct author because the "division Raphidosomaria" described by Distant, 1904 does not belong to the family group as described by ICZN Code art. 35. Am I correct? Hiouf (talk) 12:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- You write: ""division Raphidosomaria" described by Distant, 1904 does not belong to the family group as described by ICZN Code art. 35". However Distant's "Division Rhaphidosomaria", per the BHL copy of the original as cited, lies beneath subfamily (Harpactorinae) but above genus (includes Rhaphidosoma + 2 more), so (to me at least) is within the "family group", falling into "any other rank below superfamily and above genus that may be desired", thus my reading would be that the attribution should indeed be to Distant (in other words, the BioLib page is correct) - although others better versed in zoological taxonomy may disagree... Regards Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 19:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- You're right, I completely overlooked the Harpactorinae subfamily in Distant, 1904. That makes the attribution to Distant more logical. Thanks for your help. Best. Hiouf (talk) 19:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- You write: ""division Raphidosomaria" described by Distant, 1904 does not belong to the family group as described by ICZN Code art. 35". However Distant's "Division Rhaphidosomaria", per the BHL copy of the original as cited, lies beneath subfamily (Harpactorinae) but above genus (includes Rhaphidosoma + 2 more), so (to me at least) is within the "family group", falling into "any other rank below superfamily and above genus that may be desired", thus my reading would be that the attribution should indeed be to Distant (in other words, the BioLib page is correct) - although others better versed in zoological taxonomy may disagree... Regards Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 19:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Tony 1212: Thanks, this makes sense since nominal tribes often (always?) have the same author than the family/superfamily. In the case of Rhaphidosomatini though, I guess Jeannel, 1919 remains the correct author because the "division Raphidosomaria" described by Distant, 1904 does not belong to the family group as described by ICZN Code art. 35. Am I correct? Hiouf (talk) 12:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- Scott is not quite correct (with due deference): because tribe is only one rank within the "family group" (ICZN Code art. 35: "The family group encompasses all nominal taxa at the ranks of superfamily, family, subfamily, tribe, subtribe, and any other rank below superfamily and above genus that may be desired ([but] see also Article 10.3 for collective groups and ichnotaxa)."), its authorship is that of any person who first used a version of the same name at any of those ranks, not specifically as a tribe, with the termination modified as necessary to suit the particular rank at which the name is applied. However in this case the ranks are the same, I believe. Above superfamily (infraorders, suborders, orders and above) the ICZN Code makes no statement since it does not govern these, however particular authors/taxonomic communities generally have their own ways of doing things at higher taxonomic ranks in practice (in case this helps). Tony 1212 (talk) 18:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you very much, it clarifies the situation! Cheers. Hiouf (talk) 07:13, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
Zoology nomenclatural query
The name Alca islandica Brehm, 1831 (now subspecies Alca torda islandica) includes in its cited synonymy Alca torda Linnaeus, 1758. I'm not too familiar with the ICZN - but if this were in botany, it would mean that Alca islandica was a nomenclatural synonym of Alca torda with the same type, which could not be considered a different taxon, not even at subspecific rank. Does this apply in zoology too? Thanks! - MPF (talk) 16:46, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- The answer is seems yes, with the same type Alca islandica would be a junior synonym of Alca torda. However 1/To read the article where Alca torda islandica was lowered at subspecific rank would help. 2/Maybe the type is not the same, and maybe that even Brehm did not see Linnaeus type at all (where is the type? lost? already lost at that time?), and has considered Alca torda as a kind of Nomen nudum because he based his assumption on just Linnaeus description. Furthermore I'm not able to understand the langage used in Brehm (1831) so I can't tell more. Christian Ferrer (talk) 21:19, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- I can't read German either, but I have noticed that Brehm (1831) lists four species of auk, all of which give Alca torda and/or Alca pica in their synonymies. So I suspect it might be that Alca islandica would be called Alca torda in older works, i.e. it is Alca torda in part? Monster Iestyn (talk) 21:49, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- It sometimes happens in old publications that the senor synonyms (included per-Linnean names) are put in the synonymy of new taxa. I.e. that is because the older descriptions are sometimes too broad (e.g. only a few words as descriptions). And hundred years later those descriptions may encompass several differents species. Schematically Linnaeus description = A+B, and later someone like Brehm comes and make "Species 1 = A+B+C", Species 2 = A+B+D+E", ect.. C, D and E being sufficient characteristics for new taxa while A+B still make them fits the older Linnaeus description. Christian Ferrer (talk) 13:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Christian Ferrer and Monster Iestyn: thanks! I think I'll let sleeping Canes familiares lie on this, and let the folk at IOC sort it out (but will send them the same query) - MPF (talk) 09:23, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
FYI: 750 species added to Australia's official list
https://www.npr.org/2024/09/13/nx-s1-5106069/australia-750-new-species-conservation —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:04, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
Hypselodoris bullockii
Would be possible to get a page for Hypselodoris bullockii? 2600:4040:40A0:1D00:117B:62AF:1CA9:1780 07:34, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, you may create one as soon as you have a suitable source to cite. Please follow the guidance notes on your talk page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:07, 15 September 2024 (UTC)