User talk:Johnuniq

I'll reply to messages here, unless requested otherwise.

Archives

Inappropriate edit.

You removed this, citing WP:BRD, but did not discuss your objection to the edit on the Talk page. Please do this ASAP. Blackworm (talk) 00:02, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I will get there in due course. Meanwhile, it is the responsibility of the person making bold changes to explain them on the talk page (particularly when the changes involve removing established and sourced text with no edit summary). My edit was highly appropriate. Johnuniq (talk) 00:48, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

David Campbell

Hi thanks for your post. I'm interning with David Campbell and I noticed that he didn't have a wiki page so I thought I'd put one up. He didn't ask me to do it or give me any input at all. After reading your post I checked out the Conflict of Interest page and I guess I'm not supposed to edit a page of someone I know? I completely understand now so I'll stop editing that page, but does that mean that the existing page has to be deleted? Any advice you can give me would be great. As I said I've never done this before so I'm still learning the ropes. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanebell Assistant (talk • contribs) 03:33, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for being so reasonable. Wikipedia welcomes polite and reasonable editors, so please continue editing, and no, the page does not need to be deleted. You should bear in mind what WP:COI says, but the main rule is to focus on improving Wikipedia, rather than improving some external entity. Personally, I think the "List of album arrangements" at David Campbell (composer) is unnecessarily detailed, but I am happy to leave that consideration for editors who are experienced in that area. Just be sure to never use weasel language like "some consider X to be the finest whatever". Keep text neutral and provide a source for any claims (see WP:IRS). Feel free to ask here if you have any questions. :If you want opinions about the article, find a similar article and look on its talk page. At the top, you may find a box announcing that some music WikiProject is interested. Have a look at the talk page of that WikiProject. If recent discussions indicates that it is active, you could post a message there for advice on any issues about the Campbell article. Johnuniq (talk) 04:44, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I think you're completely correct that I shouldn't have quoted that article which was biased toward David Campbell. At the time I was just trying to add more content, but I certainly agree now that it was inappropriate for Wikipedia. I will certainly read up on WP:IRS and thank you so much for all of your advice.Kanebell Assistant (talk) 23:17, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Current Research in Evolutionary Biology

Hey, I saw you in the talk page Talk:Current_research_in_evolutionary_biology, that you've edited evolution articles and commented on that guys talk page. He's gone and snipped the entire article which I'm not sure in necessary. Would appreciate your help so we can all work together to make the article better. I preferred the old format as it was clear and readable, but it probably does need change. Yet the current style is very messy. Genjix (talk) 10:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, yes I noticed that. While I agree that the change was not helpful, that user is doing some good work at the moment, and they were correct in saying that the material that was at Current research in evolutionary biology was not "current", and was in fact a collection of miscellaneous stuff. Accordingly, I thought I would just leave it (that is, sorry, but I don't feel there is more I want to do at this stage). By the way, you should use "Add topic" (or "new section", depending on your skin) to post a new message at a talk page. Doing that adds the message to the bottom. Johnuniq (talk) 10:56, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, Johnuniq. You have new messages at Faust's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Talk:Human

(crosspost) Johnuniq, instead of just condemning my work, can you explain in some minimal detail what is wrong with what I wrote? -Stevertigo (t | log | c) 23:33, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Naturally I will join the discussion at Talk:Human. Johnuniq (talk) 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Islam & evolution

A tour of other sites which may present the same issues revealed: Science in medieval Islam#Zoology; Islamic science#Zoology; Islamic medicine#Zoology and (same page) Botany; Islamic Golden Age#Other sciences (this latter is just a mention of evolution in a list). They have passages, all of which are subject to similar criticism, and some of which are copies or originals by the same contributor, with the same references. The case for doing a similar job on them is that they will be copied and misused if we don't. However, if we do tackle them, the effort needs to be set up first, otherwise it would be fruitless. Perhaps you could think about it; well, perhaps you already are! Regards, Macdonald-ross (talk) 10:53, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

By "set up", do you mean that I should add a "Misuse of sources" section on each talk page, with an analysis of the text introduced by Jagged that remains in the article (similar to Talk:Evolution#Misuse of sources)? If yes, I would be glad to do it, although it may take a couple of days.

Please have a look at the following Notes. I believe "Evolution" is finished, but I am not sure about "History of evolutionary thought". Perhaps you would attend to the to do items? Many thanks for continuing with this. Johnuniq (talk) 11:40, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's what I mean. Ping me when/if misuse section is up. Thanks, Macdonald-ross (talk) 05:25, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done

Science in medieval Islam#Zoology has been processed and cleaned; see Talk:Science in medieval Islam#Misuse of sources. A major prune has removed all contentions material including Zoology. Need to see it does not return. Zoology prior to prune is here.
No action required at Islamic science because it is a redirect to Science in medieval Islam (since 2008).
No action required at Islamic medicine because it is a redirect to Medicine in medieval Islam (since 2008).

To do

Add a "Misuse of sources" section on talk page of:

All done. Johnuniq (talk) 06:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Will use this to update entries at WP:Jagged 85 cleanup.

Evolution, discussion at Talk:Evolution#Misuse of sources: done (cleaned by Macdonald-ross and Plumbago).
History of evolutionary thought, discussion at Talk:History of evolutionary thought#Misuse of sources: is this finished? (cleaned by Macdonald-ross and TimVickers).

Yes. Macdonald-ross (talk) 05:21, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- To do: References has two copies of following item (introduced by Jagged), and not currently used. Should both copies be deleted?
  - Bayrakdar, Mehmet. Al Jahiz and the Rise of Biological Evolution (PDF). {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Yes, and done. Ref unreliable and no longer used. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:48, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- To do: Article contains text "Al-Jahiz was also wrote" and the "was" should be deleted (I haven't done that myself because I don't want to appear to endorse the claim which I have not investigated; "vivid descriptions" is a bit florid).

Yes, and done. Prose in section adjusted. Macdonald-ross (talk) 05:21, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

video link on "Passage Meditation"

Dear Johnuniq, You explained on the Passage Meditation Talk page why my original video link should have been deleted. I have since modified (on that Talk page) the proposed change to reflect the comments, and asked Carl Bunderson (the original deleter) to review. He has said (on the Passage Meditation Talk page) that he would now be fine with including the link if there is a consensus to do so. Given Carl's latest comments, my proposal (please see Passage Meditation talk page for explanation) would then be

EITHER In External Links

Easwaran on Youtube: What you do through the practice of meditation is train your attention

OR In the article itself, where it says

According to Easwaran, the practice of meditating on a specific passage of text (Easwaran suggests the Prayer of Saint Francis or Psalm 23 as examples[3]) has the effect of eventually transforming "character, conduct, and consciousness."

to replace this with:

According to Easwaran, the practice of meditating on a specific passage of text (Easwaran suggests the Prayer of Saint Francis or Psalm 23 as examples[3]) trains the attention <youtube link as a reference> and has the effect of eventually transforming "character, conduct, and consciousness."

Would you please let me know whether either of these would be OK with you? Thanks, DuncanCraig1949 (talk) 09:23, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the notice. I have commented at Talk:Passage Meditation. Johnuniq (talk) 10:42, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your well-weighed thoughts on the Talk page. I hadn't looked at it that way, and I understand your objections. DuncanCraig1949 (talk) 08:59, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

due weight and secondary sources

Hi Johnuniq - thanks for your voice of reason on the Nambla article talk page, I concur with your comments. --Jack-A-Roe (talk) 03:54, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Johnuniq (talk) 04:34, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reliance Globalcom

John, please consider my proposal here. Thanks. Ground Zero | t 16:37, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good! I have done some editing and commented at the talk page. Johnuniq (talk) 23:08, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Secret pages 2

Because you participated in Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Some Person/The Real Secret Page and Secret Barnstar, you may be interested in Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Secret pages 2. Cunard (talk) 06:25, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I'll probably comment there in due course. Johnuniq (talk) 07:35, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Research about virtual communities

I am doing a research about virtual communities for my doctorate. I would like to study how the members define norms for the community. I would appreciate your contribution for my research. If I agree to participate, I will send you the questions. Jmbbmj (talk) 16:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No thanks. Johnuniq (talk) 07:34, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mediation for Ugg boots

Johnuniq, you are cordially invited to participate in mediation here. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 00:45, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, although I have already watchlisted WP:Requests for mediation/Ugg boots. I do not see any progress likely as the editors who oppose all use of Wikipedia for company promotion are unlikely to be dissuaded by mediation; the same applies to the other side. Johnuniq (talk) 01:18, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Did you mean to say "Mediation will not dissuade those editors who oppose all attempts to stop use of Wikipedia for company promotion" on the mediation talk page? Donama (talk) 03:08, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, although I guess I should have used different wording if it's not clear. My intention is to say that there are two kinds of editors in this case: (a) those who oppose all use of Wikipedia for company promotion (that includes me); and (b) those from the other side (those who, for whatever reason, favor promotional edits). Johnuniq (talk) 03:41, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thank you for correcting my hasty editing at the cloud computing page. I'm still getting the hang of this. Cheers, AlexandrosM (talk) 08:48, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Science in medieval Islam

I an lost in wonder at your analysis. Of course, there's much I can't comment on (not being a polymath, you see...), but the consistent over-statement of work which should have been more conservatively described is extremely noticeable.
I especially enjoyed the list of polymaths (criterion for inclusion?...), the claim that Ibn al-Haytham used every single iota of modern scientific procedure, and the list of applied sciences, which includes such gems as programmable automaton, flight control surfaces (!!), torpedo,...
If one goes to the relevant page one usually finds supporting material by the same user. In the case of flight control surfaces, I noticed other users had the grit to throw his insertion out, which takes some doing, as you know. Many of the examples are exactly of the type seen on the evolution pages, where a perfectly sensible and useful piece of work in natural history is described as if it achieved the status of the theory of evolution.
I am thinking about the 'what to do' question. My first inclination is, in stages, to take every science, technology and medicine page which is general -- not a primarily Islamic or Arabic page -- and take out everything not clearly justified, but not arbitrarily. A process of flagging, followed by a defined period, then removal if no satisfactory progress is made. Here I am suggesting a defined period as an innovation. The period of time should be weeks rather than months. Macdonald-ross (talk) 14:55, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your proposal is excellent, and I would be glad to help, although I'm running fast in real life at the moment, and am lagging behind my hopes here. As a reminder to myself, your comment concerns an analysis that I created: Talk:Science in medieval Islam#Misuse of sources and Talk:Science in medieval Islam/Cleanup. It was quite interesting to work through some of the diffs. From memory, at first everyone was the "father of" something (father of optics, father of robotics, ...). I guess there must have been some pushback, because they then became "a pioneer of ...", and later, "a forerunner of ...". I'll let you know when I've got more. Johnuniq (talk) 04:32, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

BIU

Dear John, I hope this finds you well. It is nice knowing you through the Bircham International University discussion. I tried to explain my views after your comment (first wrote them briefly and again, elaborated them). I might not be as efficient as you are, but those comments come strait from my heart. Thanking you Shoovrow (talk) 04:19, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, although I have seen your comments at Talk:Bircham International University#"Consumer protection" paragraph. I'm not sure why your heart is involved in that article, but we can discuss it at the article talk page, although I don't see a need to make a further comment at the moment. Johnuniq (talk) 09:29, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome, John. I hope you don't mind as I'm writing here. Still, I promise I won't write further here on this issue. I just felt your concern as very rational regarding why my heart is involved with that article. Therefore, felt that I should reply, otherwise, it would be misleading for my personal impression. Sometimes life is a strange place and strange things happen. I just want to let you know that I have some proof (very legal and fresh but very personal as well) at personal level that helps me to understand that this institute is not that crap as the article shows. Don't think that I am saying this because I am a student or teacher or owner of that institute! But, personal knowledge or proof is not applicable for wiki articles or any mass media or publication. Its true that the wiki BIU article shows nothing but truth, but those are not the whole truth. Each time I see that article, I feel guilty as I know for sure that there are some good things there too in the BIU issue! John, I am a scientific thanatologist (plus a physician, psychiatrist, psychotherapist and psychologist) and I have my works preserved in decent places like the Royal College of Psychiatrists at London and other places and BIU is never my business. I edit BIU article at wiki simply because I feel it is a responsibility of mine as a human being, not just a wiki editor. Sorry for this last long message. Thank you again for your patience, brother. Shoovrow (talk) 14:40, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

RFC on vandalism sandboxes

As someone who previously participated in the discussion to adopt policy verbiage that is being used as a rationale to delete "vandalism sandboxes", your input would be appreciated on the matter: Wikipedia talk:User pages#Userspace Vandalism Sandboxes. Gigs (talk) 15:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I will respond in due course. Johnuniq (talk) 22:48, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WQA

You probably ought to be aware of this [1]. I have no idea what you have done to piss this editor off either.--Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:19, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I saw some of the earlier comments and decided to not respond because while I would be happy to be conciliatory, I couldn't think of wording that might not cause further offense. Johnuniq (talk) 23:51, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I know what you mean. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 07:59, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please forgive the intrusion. I was glad to see the note about conciliatory words and it seems just that much gave me enough perspective to figure out what "what kind of witch" probably meant. It was totally my fault I was late with diffs, but I hope it's understandable that I felt "my side" couldn't have been taken into account. I had asked for an acknowledgement of that but it was closed and reopened without a yay or nay from me, I'm sorry for posing the ad hominem question to you so pointedly. It wasn't being addressed. But, it occured to me here, that by "kind" in "anxieties over what kind of witch" EotR could have meant fluffy or non-fluffy as opposed to Sabbatic, Traditional, Wiccan, etc. (as in religious affiliation). That actually follows from what I said I didn't assume, (I shouldn't have scolded on behalf of the bunny). That brings it all back down to the level of snarkiness, if that's livable. I do have anxieties IRL over staying out the line of fire of witch wars but nothing to do with that article. Anyway, that wasn't something you could have answered but I guess it was more the thought that counts.—Machine Elf 1735 (talk) 20:44, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your message. I am not sure exactly what Elen of the Roads meant, but I am very confident that the fluffy bunny remark was not directed at you, and I certainly intended no offense. I have posted a second comment at WP:WQA#Elen of the Roads which I hope will finalise the matter. Johnuniq (talk) 00:26, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I tried to explain (obviously badly as no-one understood) it was the sources for these articles that I intended to describe as fluffy - as for example Llewellyn worldwide, who will in my opinion publish any kind of rubbish if they think they can sell it to people. It's a difficulty, because while I would never comment on another person's private religious beliefs (who am I to stand between a man and his God), one has to be careful with the sources used for witchcraft articles in Wikipedia, because publication does not always equate to notability. Anyway, I do hope we can now all agree that it was a misunderstanding, and no-one intended to offend anyone. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:56, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Johnuniq, could you come by and help make sure I'm not sticking my foot in my mouth again? Thanks! Machine Elf 1735 (talk) 17:16, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have commented at User talk:Machine Elf 1735#Archives. Johnuniq (talk) 23:18, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jagged85

I would like to draw your attention here: Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_comment/Jagged_85/Cleanup#Wholescale_deletion.

Thanks.Bless sins (talk) 23:30, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the alert. I hope you don't mind, but I have moved your comment to WT:Requests for comment/Jagged 85#Wholescale deletion where I have posted a very preliminary reply. Johnuniq (talk) 04:43, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You have been investigating Jagged85's edits for months, and I have only come to know of this 5 days ago. So pardon me for not having verified (and I can only acknowlege something after personally verifying) the extent of the problem.

However, you also haven't acknowleged the extent of the deletionism going on here. Articles on Muslim contributions in various fields are being blanked (not replaced or rewritten). Often this is happening under false edit summaries, and the deleting editor is using his own original research to challenge Jagged85's reliable sourcing, and even challenging the reliability of material published in academic journals (some of which are published by university presses). Correct me if I'm wrong, but the deleting editor, far from actually verifying every sentence he deleted, does not even seem to be reading every sentence he deletes.Bless sins (talk) 14:49, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This relates to a comment I made at Talk:Science in medieval Islam (diff).

There is no rush to resolve the issue. I won't say much here because the matter should be discussed on article talk pages, or perhaps at WT:Requests for comment/Jagged 85, however I will observe that I do not support unthinking deletion of material, but I would also be very uncomfortable with procedures that allowed known bad material to remain in articles for an extended period. For "known bad", see the evidence mentioned at WP:Jagged 85 cleanup and the two stunning examples I gave here. Johnuniq (talk) 09:25, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So if you don't support unthinking deletion of material, can you, at WT:Requests for comment/Jagged 85, suggest the criteria upon which material should be deleted? The current norm is: if Jagged85 wrote it, delete it. That is unthinking in my opinion.Bless sins (talk) 21:33, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly, in due course. The exaggerations and deceptions (including lies) have been in many articles in Wikipedia for months/years, so I think it understandable that some editors may remove more than absolutely necessary. To remove possibly good information results in information that is missing. To leave bad information visible in articles is much worse, particularly when there are apparently sources for the information (sources which in fact do not verify the information as presented in the article, or sources which are dubious). Johnuniq (talk) 01:44, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Will you help me?

You are right about the Ron Holloway article. User:Ronsax (who IS Ron Holloway) has sped up look at the page history just from the last three days! That comment begun by Orange Mike in the past few days triggered an egocentric, full-time absorbed guy with WP:OWN, and WP:COI issues (I told him that my adoption of him 2 years ago was premature and foolish since I was too new to Wikipedia), but nobody ever adoped me! He's ignored the info on the Welcome template with all the guidelines. I have always suggested working on other articles but he ONLY wants to promote his own. I spent 2 1/2 hours on the phone with him last night. I moved all the links from the external links and put them on the talk page and had to literally place a big (invisible) sign in external links saying no more would be tolerated. But from our earliest correspondence he pressured me, saying somethng about how important to a musician's career to have this [ ] ." (he stopped just short of saying the word,"publicity"). But really, he never was an adoptee. I'd correct something he did wrong, and he'd ignore my emails, except about every 4 months, and I thought maybe he didn't ununderstand online coaching. On the article talk page he kept promising to meet with me in person, saying if I explained it in person, I could teach him in a couple of hours how to do it, and explain the problems in the article. But although he lives 15 min. away, he never has, but will call for hours on the phone about it! Anyway, I've been continuing to convert his stuff into inline citations, using CITE but he hasn't used CITE claiming not to see the little buttons above the edit box. Question: if he uses a ref from the [[Washington Post], but other editors checking the source can't get beyong the title since it's archived and one must pay for it. IS that an acceptable reference? It's this: [2] Please would you answer this last question, and whatever else on my talk page? Thanks. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 04:11, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ouch, that is a lot worse than I imagined. Re your specific question (and I will alert you on your talk page): There is no problem with regard to Wikipedia's guidelines if a reference is hard to check. The reference might be a book available only to bona fide researchers at a few universitites, or (as in this case), it might be available for a payment. The referenced material must be verifiable, but the verification does not have to be easy or cheap. However, as with many of the factoids in this article, another issue is whether material is due: How important is it that Holloway went to see Freddie Hubbard? Does the reference actually state that it was important, or is the importance original research or synthesis according to the views of an editor (even if that editor is the person in question)? One approach might be to find a couple of articles about musicians of similar, or possibly greater, standing and form some judgment of whether the details in this article are appropriate. Be aware that WP:OTHERSTUFF prohibits an argument along the lines of "some other article does it this way, so this article should also"; nevertheless, reasonable comparisons can help other editors form an opinion. Opinions could also be sought at WT:WikiProject Jazz or perhaps WT:WikiProject Biography. I am watching Ron Holloway (without much enthusiaum), but the few edits that I have checked have been improvements (I see that a lot of puffery has gone). However, the article seems far too long and detailed; it should be on a personal website. I am scratching at ideas, but another possibility would be for you to make a user subpage with a draft of the article as you believe it should appear. Then, you could propose it on the article's talk page, and later possibly insert it as the article. Then, rely on page watchers to judge whether to revert any changes (whatever you do, do not edit war yourself). If you post specific issues on the article talk page, I will possibly notice them and may be able to join in (if I don't within a day or two, feel free to alert me here). Thanks for trying so hard with this article! Johnuniq (talk) 05:24, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sirocco the Kakapo

Hi - you edited my addition to the kakapo page a couple of days ago, so I wanted to say hi and have a chat? This was my first attempt at Wikipedia so am very aware that I'm a newbie! But I was a bit puzzled by the exclusion as I thought I'd kept my addition very tight and relevant. I guess the debate is whether an individual of a species is worthy of mention in an encyclopedia? I understand that Sirocco's case probably veers on the edge of relevance; however a quick look around Wikipedia suggests that there are precedents - Bubbles the Chimp, for example, is a famous example. His fame is obviously huge - however there's also an article on Twiggy the Water-Skiing squirrel..! Again, maybe Twiggy is more famous than Sirocco (not in these parts, mind you!) - but I didn't attempt to add a whole new page on Sirocco, just a brief paragraph, which I thought was warranted.

On the kakapo discussion page, I posted up a question as to whether this was a relevant edition (before I'd worked out how to contact you directly, apologies for that), and someone - who formerly felt there wasn't a place for this kind of mention - posted saying that Sirocco's continued exposure in the media and relevant to conservation issues was, in fact, now justification for inclusion.

Ultimately though, my main reason for putting him on there was because people keep asking me why he isn't. Is that in itself a reason to include him? Maybe not, but it's close! Sirocco though is becoming a symbol of survival, an individual representing a species that came close to extinction - I think that's quite a powerful justification for a mention.

So could I respectfully ask you to have a think about whether or not Sirocco could be included? I'd consider different wording if that was the issue.

Thanks a lot! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris Pitt (talk • contribs) 19:44, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry that your first edit at Wikipedia was reverted (by me), so thanks for your extremely polite message. You were not to know, but there is a history at Kakapo of people (probably quite young people) inserting inappropriate trivia, so there was an excited rush when a bird tried to mate with a documentary maker. All such attempts have been removed as inappropriate ephemera in this article. I have commented at Talk:Kakapo#Sirocco the Kakapo - worth a mention? because it appears the situation may have developed, and a mention may now be appropriate. Johnuniq (talk) 22:39, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Civility

"Being a dick" refers to lack of civility, and therefore the link belongs there IMO – why do you think otherwise? Hearfourmewesique (talk) 17:12, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have replied at WT:Civility#Don't be a dick. Johnuniq (talk) 01:56, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Me too. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 20:25, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of LegalMatch for deletion

A discussion has begun about whether the article LegalMatch, which you created or to which you contributed, should be deleted. While contributions are welcome, an article may be deleted if it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines for inclusion, explained in the deletion policy.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/LegalMatch (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and you are welcome to contribute to the discussion.

You may edit the article during the discussion, including to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:56, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

LOL! First time I've seen a user account created solely to nominate an article for deletion. Johnuniq (talk) 07:09, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Objections to evolution

Dear Johnuniq, please do not remove large quantities of information as you did on the Objections to evolution article. All of the information you removed was supported by a reputable reference and it was not directly quoted from the book. The information therein was written in original language that was summarized from the buttressing book. If you do not agree with the information, please post a query on the talk page of the article; however, per WP:CENSOR, that is not a legitimate reason to remove the work. Moreover, the information there meets WP:V and WP:RS. I hope this helps. Thanks, Anupam^Talk 21:34, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Johnuniq, it seems like another user has intervened and has re-summarized the work and this is okay with me. I think this is no longer an issue. Best wishes, Anupam^Talk 21:46, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your understanding of WP:BRD is incorrect. It is up to the editor wanting to add information to justify it on the article talk page (not on the talk pages of individual editors). It is totally inappropriate to mention WP:CENSOR in connection with my removal of new material, particularly since I gave an explanation in the edit summary, and not all verifiable material is suitable for an article. You pasted essentially the same text into three articles: Objections to evolution, Social Darwinism, Social effect of evolutionary theory. I left the other two articles because they are not concerned with hard science and a certain amount of hand waving is conventional in those areas (however, I am watching them in the hope that someone will clean up the text, and may join in later). Any further discussion should occur at Talk:Objections to evolution#Social Darwinism. Johnuniq (talk) 01:10, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For your information.

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:111.220.221.191 reported by User:Lear's Fool (Result: ). Thanks. -- Lear's Fool 10:38, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good, thanks. Johnuniq (talk) 23:27, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Ghostofnemo (2nd nomination)

Because you participated in Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Ghostofnemo, you may be interested in Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Ghostofnemo (2nd nomination). Cunard (talk) 22:28, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I commented. Johnuniq (talk) 22:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

DNA sequencing

NO, I mean't it for the article page - the article is out of date in a field that is moving rapidly. Maybe the way I did it doesn't conform to wiki standards, but I do know that warnings of one sort or another are often put into articles, eg this article is biased, this article reads like a how to do list, etc. I don't have a strong objection or feeling if you delete my comment; ever since I discovered tht people can sell wiki articles, I haven't really been interested in doing anything; its bad enough dealing with the fools who write the equivalent of 2+2=3; I , personally can't stand the idea of people profiting from my hard work. you want to reprint it for free fine, but making money is repulsive. just my 2 centsCinnamon colbert (talk) 02:04, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have avoided tags (and so don't know much about them), but they would be the correct thing for this situation. There is a nice table at {{Multiple issues}} which makes me think that {{Out of date}} might be what is needed. I think you would put the following on a line of its own, just under the heading of the section with the problem: {{Out of date|section}} And, you would put a new section on the talk page with a few details of your concern.

Re people selling Wikipedia articles: I understand the repulsion at the idea of hearing that people are exploiting the community's work in that way (and I have heard that some article reprints are dubious with no concern for the product). However, it is possible to look at the matter another way: productive editors are here to help build a free encyclopedia, where "free" means no cost and available to all (e.g. while not impossible, governments find it hard to prevent their citizens from accessing the knowledge here). No one controls the distribution of Wikipedia, and if people can dream up a way of using the information here to assist others, that is good. In practical terms, that means there will be lowlife who set up linkfarms (websites with content copied from places like Wikipedia to boost Google rankings), or who sell printed copies of articles. In the latter case, at least there is the possibility that someone will learn something from the material, and it is even possible that a publisher might do the job properly by spending money on editors who prepare useful packages for schools or whatever. I doubt whether anyone makes much money selling articles, although they may well try. Johnuniq (talk) 03:47, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

re profit

Dear Johnuniq - do you know anything about books like the one at the url below ? it looks like someone has repackaged wiki content into a book and is selling it on amazon; I don't know about you, I am simply not going to help wiki if it allows this; that is my personal bottom line - I will not do work for free that someone else profits by, and I really don't understand why you do either. http://www.amazon.com/Zeta-Potential-Lambert-M-Surhone/dp/6131060002/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291143235&sr=1-5 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cinnamon colbert (talk • contribs) 18:59, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't have any knowledge of that. I see that Rich Farmbrough has left a review at the Amazon page saying that people should just use Wikipedia, and then I noticed that you had alerted him at User talk:Rich Farmbrough. While the situation is not ideal, it is a fact that any useful resource is exploited by some, and I think you are worrying unnecessarily. It is extremely unlikely that the particular "book" you linked to above will make its publisher any significant money, and while there will always be people trying to exploit Wikipedia, and a small stream of innocents who occasionally buy one of the fake books, that will only be a tiny part of how Wikipedia is used in general. If you were a doctor, would you only treat "nice" people? Johnuniq (talk) 02:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. I, too, am disgusted, although not enough to leave the project. The following is from a review at the Amazon page for Winslow Homer: Landscape Painter, Printmaker, Illustrator, Oil Painting, Apprenticeship (Paperback)[3], content leeched from Winslow Homer by the same "authors".

"If you like to pay for information you can get for free on the internet, this is the book for you. It does have a nice cover, and you can read it in the bathroom or on a long plane ride, so a hardcopy version has its advantages. Seriously, this book is nothing but a collection of the Wikipedia articles named in its title. It's actually one of the more convincing titles that Alphascript and Betascript Publishing have come up with - their goofy titles normally go on and on, this one sounds reasonable until the last three words. Search on "Half Man, Half Biscuit" for one of their stranger titles. Really, Alphascript and Betascript would have fooled a lot more people if they had spent 10 seconds working on each title. But with 54,000 titles between them, all "published" in the last year, there's really no time do so. More time is spent on picking a cover photo."

--CliffC (talk) 04:17, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's interesting: 54,000 titles! It is pretty disgusting, but parasites are part of life. I wonder if anyone would know (if, for example, this were asked at WP:VPM) whether Amazon would care about their reputation. My hunch is, no they would not care, and would not want to evaluate whether a particular publisher was offering Amazon customers a reasonable deal. For some reason I don't find it worth worrying about, whereas I would go to a fair bit of trouble to combat the self-promoters who try to insert links and promotional edits into Wikipedia. Johnuniq (talk) 05:51, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Talk page obsessive monologues

I think User:71.68.251.209 has gone way, way beyond acceptable behaviour on Talk:Human evolution by constant repetition of a micro-minority POV. The sheer volume must be interferring with normal discussions. Naturally, Talk pages are more open than article pages but, for me, this behaviour is an abuse. Macdonald-ross (talk) 08:40, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes, I remember that editor! I have archived Talk:Human evolution to remove the current soapboxing, and have put a suggestion that further rants should be reverted. Let's try that for a while, and if necessary I will attempt to attract the attention of an administrator if it becomes disruptive again. I notice that one of the IPs concerned has added related materal at The Incredible Human Journey (at least this diff). Johnuniq (talk) 10:48, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at this article

Hi Johnuniq! I remember your watchful and astute contributions to Talk: Pederasty in ancient Greece, where I edited as User:Amphitryoniades. There is another discussion at Greek love, an article with a very troubled history. I hope you will keep your eye on it and give your opinion on the talk page there. I am exploring the options for an Afd, possibly a merge if there is some consensus about that, though a merge is highly problematic. McZeus (talk) 08:26, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yuck! A quick scan of Greek love has left me scratching my head wondering what it's all about. I have added it to my watchlist and will notice activity. I might get a chance to join in. Johnuniq (talk) 10:29, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I nominated the article for AfD almost a week ago and you could miss the chance to vote if you don't act soon. McZeus (talk) 22:41, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but I have been watching. I'm afraid I am developing a self-defense mechanism by avoiding some blatantly stupid areas of Wikipedia, and arguing to delete an article on such an "exciting" topic would probably not help my stress levels. I respect what you are trying to do, but I find a heavy dose of pragmatism is best in such situations. Johnuniq (talk) 00:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I enter into a spirit of pragmatism and resignation from time to time (a lot of the time actually), but there are times when the individuals like us just have to stand up and say "I can see the emperor's addenda!" I'm sorry we are out of synch on this at the moment but maybe sometime in the future our moods will coincide again. Meanwhile the emperor struts his ridiculous stuff in front of his adoring fans and listening is not a commodity in wide use at such times. Cheers. McZeus (talk) 00:50, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thanks for your informative message on my talk page. I'm new at this and it was very helpful. Potcherboy (talk) 22:07, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reversion on Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories

I am reverting this edit of yours, which removed a {{POV-statement}} template which I had added to the article while a related discussion was/is still ongoing on the article's talk page. The discussion is at Talk:Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories#Caption to billboard photo., and is linked from the tag which the template you removed and I have restored adds to the article. Your edit summary said, "tag not justified on talk; commonsense applies". Re justification, I had compliance with the WP:NPOV policy in mind when I added the template. If you do join the discussion on the article talk page, I'd appreciate info about what wikipedia policy or guideline relating to common sense you had in mind when you wrote that edit summary. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 13:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You don't need to go to this much trouble when making an edit. The article talk page is the expected place for a discussion, and I have commented there. Johnuniq (talk) 03:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It was a courtesy notification of a reversion. I appreciate it when others extend me the courtesy, as I may otherwise miss seeing a reversion masked on my watchlist by subsequent edits to the article in question. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:27, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Comment at "second enquiry" etc MfD

"If it's not an attack page, there is no reason to keep it" - could you explain what you mean by that? It would seem more valid (to me, at least) to argue for its deletion if it were an attack page. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:40, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I thought I would join the "oh so clever" style of writing, at the expense of clarity. The only reason to create a userspace page that records ill feelings between editors (particularly one with an editor's name in the title) is as an attack (yes, a mild attack, but it is what the page creator thinks is an amusing record of other people's stuff ups which is what Wikipedians know as an attack page). I see there is an argument that a record of diffs is needed to show that certain editors said stupid/offensive things. Keeping such userspace pages (when not engaged in preparing for an imminent noticeboard report) is also known as an attack. Since the only reason to keep it is for an attack, it has to be deleted. I was going to put this in the MfD but I see that the discussion there has moved away from the reach of mortals. Johnuniq (talk) 01:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

ANI

Hi John. This is to notify you that there is a report at ANI where you are mentioned. It does not concern your actions but you may or may not wish to comment. Thank you and take care. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 05:29, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks. I'll probably comment in due course. I don't share the optimism expressed at WP:WQA#Follow up that ANI will be a ready solution, but we'll see. Johnuniq (talk) 06:12, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you are right. But I thought I would give it a try after three admins advised me to do so. Hopefully it will turn out some type of solution. Thanks again John. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 06:29, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

ref closed

Thanks for cleaning up that unclosed ref! Boud (talk) 22:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to make that modest contribution. Johnuniq (talk) 23:01, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You may wish to participate

User:Wuhwuzdat has made a very WP:Pointy deletion nomination of List of management consulting firms after two of his wholesale deletions of article content were reverted and explained here. Since you participated in the 1st AfD, I am notifying you of the 2nd AfD in the event you wish to participate. --Mike Cline (talk) 18:54, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the notice. I have recommended deletion because the current format of the list is unmaintainable and unhelpful fluff. I understand that this view will not prevail, but I am perplexed why anyone would want to keep an arbitrary collection of extracts from press releases. Johnuniq (talk) 22:26, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello J.

You recently reverted and edit of mine at gargoyles with the comment, "no reason to doubt reference." As it turns out, the reference used can be found on line. ([4]) And, as it turns out, I do have some issues with it. Pesznecker's section on dogs (p. 26) contains the sentence, " In Medieval times dogs often as shepherds." Which is not even a complete sentence. My task here is not to discredit and/or remove all references to Pesznecker's work here, but I do believe that questions can be raised about itk. On p. 32 Pesznecker states that some gargoyles were, "exaggerations . . . of existing creatures such as the platypus". Wiki says about the platypus that "When the Platypus was first encountered by Europeans in 1798," So, how could it have been the model for anything in Gothic architecture? For the record, pretty much all the references that I use are from my own library, situated all around me. Here are some of the titles to be found here. "Holy Terrors: gargoyles on medieval buildings", "Faces on Places: About gargoyles and other stone creatures", "The Gargoyle Book: 572 Examples from Gothic architecture", "Images of Lust: sexual carvings on medieval churches", "Gargoyles, Chimeras, and the Grotesque in French Gothic architecture", "Gothic Gargoyles", and "Gargoyles and Grotesques: paganism in Medieval church". I have a bunch more that deal with Gothic and Romanesque carvings, sculpture, architecture, etc. In looking at all the pictures, and even reading the occasional bit of text, I have not noticed a preponderance of dogs. Anyway, I just wanted you to understand where I am coming from. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 02:58, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I think there was a misunderstanding there because I did not revert you: an IP editor removed the reference and some wikilinks, and messed up the "Dog" heading (IP diff). My edit (diff) simply restored the two wikilinks and the reference, and my edit summary was intended to be addressed to 84.9.122.89 (who had removed the reference). At any rate, I have already responded at Talk:Gargoyle where we seem to have reached agreement. Johnuniq (talk) 03:14, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Life is good. Carptrash (talk) 03:16, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

genetic algorithm edit

I am guessing that was my mobile phone messing up again ?

I went in to add a comment, saw that the sig was missing part. Came out without changing or adding and went back in again and it was still showing as an incomplete sig. I am beginning to think this phone is being affected by a character it doesn't recognise. The sig had your name and then ([[User but the rest was not there. Weird

Sorry about that Chaosdruid (talk) 05:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I have recently noticed a couple of people saying that weird things have happened when they edited a talk page. Johnuniq (talk) 10:14, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

FYI

Thank you for your contributions to the encyclopedia! In case you are not already aware, an article to which you have recently contributed, Bristol Palin, is on article probation. A detailed description of the terms of article probation may be found at Talk:Sarah Palin/Article probation. Also note that the terms of some article probations extend to related articles and their associated talk pages.

The above is a templated message. Please accept it as a routine friendly notice, not as a claim that there is any problem with your edits. Thank you. -- 184.59.23.225 (talk) 06:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ha ha! I spoke up for you at Talk:Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories#Legitimacy (Law), but that doesn't mean I need hand holding. I have made a total of one edit to Bristol Palin after seeing the misguided fluff mentioned at WP:BLPN#Willow Palin, so templating people arguing against you is not helpful. It's you plus one other editor arguing against several established editors, and consensus is not with you. Johnuniq (talk) 06:43, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ha? Consensus is not established by voting, and I'n not holding your hand. Frankly, you got templated so I could argue for a topic-ban if you revert sourced material again. 184.59.23.225 (talk) 07:22, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your concern, but you should save it for an inexperienced editor. Johnuniq (talk) 08:14, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "User:Gods10rules, User:KeptSouth, User:Kelly, and User:Johnuniq".The discussion is about the topic Bristol Palin.Thank you. 184.59.23.225 (talk) 10:27, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's puzzling that you think it somehow productive to claim that four established editors were edit warring with one other editor! I have made a total of one edit to the article, and since I'm not at all concerned by posturing, no good will come of your efforts. At any rate I see that the other editor and you have been banned from adding the material you wanted (ANI permalink). That material (gossip re silly behavior by the 20-year old daughter of a prominent politician) is not suitable for use in Wikipedia, not because it's outrageous, but because it is so trivial and blog-like. Johnuniq (talk) 09:50, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ganges

Talkback: Talk:Ganges#Strawmen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayen466 (talk • contribs) 18:07, 28 November 2010

Thanks but I had seen the commentary there before you left this note. As others have said, one day the world and the article will (probably) use the "Ganga" name rather than "Ganges", but Wikipedia is not the place to promote that usage. It is disruptive for people to continue to stridently argue the case. Johnuniq (talk) 09:50, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers re: Kwamikagami

Thanks for your input re: Kwamikagami. I've clarified on a couple of points that you may have misunderstood (Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts#kwamikagami). My main points in response was (a)that it was not a 3RR or edit war situation, because I was attempting to account for the other side's objections (and this was visible in the edit summary of the edit you linked, for example); (b) Kwamikagami is an admin and should be held to a higher standard of civility.

Cheers again. -Danjel (talk) 05:18, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but I'll sit it out for a while because if I get involved in an ongoing discussion that may dissuade others from commenting. If you had posted the same material four times in 24 hours, you probably would have been blocked, not warned. The warning has to come before four times, and there definitely was a (minor) edit war at Roentgenium. Also, a good rule of thumb is that if it is necessary to discuss the addition of some text at a noticeboard and a couple of user's talk pages, as well as the article talk page, the addition is probably not warranted. Johnuniq (talk) 06:24, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with the article is that, in my opinion, Materialscientist has become too overly protective of it (among other articles).

Although I'm not a zealot, I believe in inclusionism, in that I believe that wikipedia should have comprehensive & notable information on a wide range of topics. I think that the controversy is notable enough as the physics community seems to be reporting the controversy regarding the discovery of naturally occurring Roentgenium (barely 24 hours and relatively notable blogs at New Scientist and Nature have reported it, a few hundred other less notable blogs have weighed in as well, it's only a matter of time before comment is written up in a major publication).

That's the reason why there's been so much discussion. The clash of the two different ideologies.

As for Kwamikagami, as I said on his talk page, I'm less bothered by the disagreement between Materialscientist and I and more bothered by Kwami's actions. He's an admin. I hold him to a much higher standard, and I believe justifiably so. -- Danjel (talk) 06:49, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Let's wait and see if anyone at WP:WQA agrees with your view. Of course admins should follow a high standard of civility, but you should not interpret straight talking as incivility. My suggestion is to drop the whole matter and never mention it again; pursuing it will not help your interaction with other editors. If anything develops re Roentgenium, someone will add some text, if it satisfies WP:IRS and WP:DUE. Some smart and experienced editors work on that page, and I suggest a little more listening would be in order.

I was just browsing ANI and noticed WP:ANI#Unjust blocking and removal of rights where someone complained about being blocked re 3RR where they say they had not violated WP:3RR (I have not looked at the situation). The swift response was that the block was justified since the user was engaged in an edit war, even if they had not exceeded the magic 3 reverts. Johnuniq (talk) 07:06, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Responding with ad hominem to reasonably worded comments (I actually feel, in hindsight, that I was way too polite) isn't straight talking. I'm not dropping this without a positive resolution; editors should know that admins can't just act as they please.

Happy to listen, and you'll note that I've been asking people to contribute to the discussion. But do you see Materialscientist talking? No. Jdrewitt responded reasonably and the issue was resolved in the interim (by, as you suggest also, waiting and seeing).

Eagles 24/7's situation is about abuse of rollback rights. I wasn't even reverting. I was making different edits on the basis of talk page discussion (or attempts at discussion, met with stonewalling). Not really in the same boat. Not sure what you're trying to say here. -Danjel (talk) 07:30, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you do not want my advice, I'm not sure what I can say. Yes, the ANI report I mentioned was about a much different case (as is clear since it was at ANI), but assuming the initial replies are correct, the user was blocked for edit warring despite no technical 3RR violation. The removal of rollback was a separate issue. At any rate, you are quite correct to point out that my analogy, like all analogies, is flawed since clearly the two cases are not related. Since I'm saying all this, I will repeat my thought that continuing on this issue will not work out well. Editors want peace and quiet, and a couple of people have looked briefly at the situation and do not think that a wikiquette issue was involved. Possibly things could have expressed better, but that's all. Johnuniq (talk) 07:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, mate. Your advice has been received, and gratefully even if I disagree. It's given me a basis from which I can think about it. -Danjel (talk) 12:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your kind intervention with Concern troll

I moved some relevant material to the internet sockpuppet article, where I think it will be a useful addition. I agree that the definition of concern troll could be shifting -- I just feel that we need some WP:RS to discuss that aspect of Golb's activity, instead of relying on conclusions the reader might draw from the primary documents on display in a blog. I do think the jail sentence is notable, however, and will be a good addition to the other article. betsythedevine (talk) 02:18, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I think you have done a good job by moving DUE material to Sockpuppet (Internet). We might not have heard the end of it; I will notice changes in either article. Johnuniq (talk) 02:41, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_comment/Jagged_85#Moving_articles_from_.22Islam.22-related_titles_to_.22Caliphate.22_related_titles_is_part_of_the_Jag_cleanup.3F Someone65 (talk) 05:30, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I responded there, and will notice any further activity (no real need for a talkback, unless it looks like I've overlooked something). Johnuniq (talk) 05:47, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Correction to an edit?

You just undid my revision to William Connolley, which I had discussed on the talk page, without adding any discussion on the talk page. What's worse is that your justification appears to be mistaken. On the talk page, I suggested that a small impact paper the subject had written shouldn't be summarized in a full sentence of the article. But Ssilvers had disagreed with that, so, as discussed on the talk page, I didn't actually remove the sentence about the small impact paper. Instead, I tried to open discussion on the talk page about the point. My edit, as discussed on the talk page, addressed only accuracy and redundancy. Your edit summary when you undid my revision was '"small impact" does not mean "omit from bio"'. I believe that you made an error. Would it be possible for you to revised this revision you made? Thanks, Abc-mn-xyz (talk) 08:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Naturally I reviewed Talk:William Connolley before editing because the topic is contentious (and I happen to watch the article, and notice most changes and comments on the talk page). I might get an opportunity to join the discussion, but I don't see a need to do that at the moment because Ssilvers has expressed the situation very well, and I don't think I could add to it. I do not see any argument there against the reasoning given in my edit summary: even if your evaluation of Connolley's work were fully justified, there simply is no reason to cut out a reasonable description from a bio. We include descriptions of work done by people even when it is plainly nonsense (e.g. fringe theory proponents). Johnuniq (talk) 09:43, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. After ABC's talk page comments, I reviewed the deletion more carefully, and I see that ABC is right: the sentence was essentially repeated. So now I have included it only once, but I put it before the footnote. Thanks, ABC for sticking with it. Best regards to you both. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:44, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

AfD

Please see: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Evolutionism (2nd nomination), since you contributed to the article. Steve Dufour (talk) 02:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I suppose. Johnuniq (talk) 02:29, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the undoing of my edits to The Rodley West Yorkshire Page...

Regarding the undoing of my edits to The Rodley West Yorkshire Page.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodley,_West_Yorkshire

I am fairly new to wikipedia. I am not fairly new to Rodley, having lived there for some time. Apologies if the posts seemed a little bit like marketing, however...

How does the nature reserve get to drop an external link in there, and the pub not?

I have re-included my edits and have included a nuetral citation for the last edit about the beer and music festival held in the village. I hope this is sufficient evidence to proove the comment noteworthy and informative. I have also removed the text link to the Owl at Rodley's homepage. I have however, left the comment in detailing the pubs one can visit in the area as again, this is simply informative and sways no preference to either establishment.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stickyboi (talk • contribs) 11:14, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your note. Editing Wikipedia is puzzling until one gains experience and reads some of the policies/guidelines. WP:5P is a good starting point, but you do not have to do much reading because the procedures are compatible with commonsense. Anyone can edit, and people want to promote their favorite thing, so there are procedures to limit the way material is expressed. Your first edit (diff) included "The spirit of the Rodley Community is really brought to life as two competing public houses join together to bring a weekend of interesting alcohol and entertaining Live Music..." with a couple of external links within the article. That style of writing is not appropriate since this is an encyclopedia, and as you can imagine articles would be awash with promotional fluff if it were not actively opposed. See WP:NPOV and WP:WTA for information on this kind of thing. I am watching Rodley, West Yorkshire and will notice further edits (which I see you have done). I will raise any issues on the article talk page (Talk:Rodley, West Yorkshire). Johnuniq (talk) 00:34, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply... I am studying the guidelines periodically as and when I get the time...

Still doesn't answer my question - How does the nature reserve get to drop an external link in there, and the pub not?

If you were wondering... I run the pub. I am not marketing it or promoting it any more than the nature reserve appears to be doing. One may wish to know where one can grab a drink in the village - if reading the wiki page for rodley.

I also have several high quality suitable images of rodley I wish to add. How would I become an confirmed user in order to be able to do so?

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stickyboi (talk • contribs) 21:15, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't got much time at the moment, but will give some quick thoughts. Try me later if you like. The best thing would be to add a section at Talk:Rodley, West Yorkshire outlining what you would like to do. If you did that, I would notice and probably reply (if I miss it, by all means remind me here). If you check the current article, you will notice that my most recent edit removed some fluff, including the link to the nature reserve website. See WP:EL for an outline of what external links are generally suitable. Re the images: see WP:AUTOCONFIRM. Please start with one image because you will find it is quite challenging to have an image accepted and used in an article. Considering that the article is very short, images may not be appropriate. It would be best if you would take an interest in the encyclopedic nature of the article and consider how you might develop it. Look at similar articles for ideas. Johnuniq (talk) 07:56, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

off-topic content

Sir,

I request that you revert your last comment directed to me. Your example is important, and this most recent off-topic comment was made after the attention of the editors (including yourself) was drawn to WP:TOPPOST and the presence of off-topic content. Also, I'm not trying to avoid taking your point, is there some way we can talk about this without having the discussion permanently recorded by Google? Thanks, RB 66.217.117.73 (talk) 22:54, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is apparently about Talk:Sentence spacing#How a Variable-Width Font Works where my most recent comment was this. I have an interest in that article and occasionally monitor the talk page, but have not followed all the discussions in detail. Recently I tried to work out why there was so much activity on the talk page, and I started making some comments saying that precise proposals should be made, or the discussions should stop (per WP:TPG). I do not follow your reference to WP:TOPPOST. We are not here to perfect the talk pages, and if established editors make a comment with some deficiency, it is probably best to just leave the comment as-is, and focus on the point (which is to improve the article). My talk page is not the place to continue (unless you wish to draw my attention to a problem with my comments, in which case you would have to spell it out without worrying about possibly offending me). If the above "this" comment concerns you (is that you one you mean?), I am happy to remove it, but its point remains: the article talk page is only for discussing specific proposals about improving the article, and general back-and-forth about the topic should stop. Johnuniq (talk) 00:53, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't say anything about continuing on your web page, so perhaps you are not aware that Google currently is taking snapshots of four websites that are mirroring this web page. FYI, the current dates of the data are:

21 September
27 October
20 November
23 November

Yes, we are not here to "perfect" talk pages, but WP:REFACTOR states, "Discussion pages that are confused, hostile, overly-complex, poorly structured, or congested with cross-talk can discourage potential contributors and create misunderstandings that undermine fruitful discussions." My reference to toppost was intended to mean, "Make a new heading for a new topic". I have found your opinions to be substantive. RB 66.217.117.73 (talk) 05:05, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know what you want. If you are saying that some content at Talk:Sentence spacing is unhelpful, my recommendation would be to manually archive the complete sections. If that is what you mean, and if you specify the exact names of the sections here, I would be happy to have a look and to archive them if it looks appropriate. Of course you could do that, but it might cause less fuss if I were to do the edits since I have not participated much in the discussions. Johnuniq (talk) 06:11, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure how to respond. In any case, I hope you won't makes the names of the living persons in the following message any easier to find with a Google search, in fact, I would welcome that you revert this post after you have seen it.

My work to keep the Talk page functional has led to controversy ...[redacted per request] RB 66.217.117.143 (talk) 08:20, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are unnecessarily sensitive and far too opaque (you still have not said what you want me to do), but I am guessing that you would agree with this proposal to manually archive some of the talk page. I asked for opinions because I could not see anything that really warranted my unannounced intervention. If there is no negative response I will probably complete this in 24 hours (maybe longer, I expect to be occupied elsewhere). Johnuniq (talk) 09:06, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Expert retention - Peer review

Dear Johnuniq. Thank you for your understanding and offer to help. I assume you are a Wikipedia administrator. I am glad that administrators are so thorough and concerned about the integrity of wikipedia. However, maybe it is a good idea to be a little bit more polite when it is obvious that someone like me has trouble to immediately understand the jungle of wiki rules and ways of posting articles. I certainly don't have your response in mind (your message to me was encouraging) and I fully understand why the two administrators I discussed my article with have to be strict. I am a scientist, I am in charge of putting up a conference, and I have been approved to create a wiki webpage on the conference itself. There are good reasons why this should happen and there are many reasons why my article submission should be improved. But labeling my actions on wikipedia with tags like "advertising" or "spamming" is over the line. I don't know if you can or want to discuss this with other administrators, but this is not what I am used to in my scientific environment. I can tell you I am exhausted. How in the world would I be able to convince my colleagues to even look at and edit articles on scientific topics in wikipedia. Worst case scenario is that their contributions get labeled as "vandalism", IP addresses get blocked, and their institutes (employers!) get notified. Please think about the potential consequences and discuss it with your fellow administrators. Ebieberich (talk) 03:10, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just a humble editor (not an administrator): Wikipedia is a remarkable place where we are all equal, although when it comes to dirty work, admins are more equal than others. It is quite normal for ordinary editors to leave explanations/advice such as my comment on your talk page, and in fact most admins have too much work to do, and it is quite hard for them to find time to write detailed explanations. The responses you received at User talk:RHaworth and User talk:Orangemike show that they have tried hard to help, despite the fact that you are still unsure of how to proceed. There is no practical way for Wikipedia to make special arrangements for articles on certain topics, such as scientific conferences. As I said before, there is a constant bombardment of new articles from enthusiasts who want the world to know about their latest thing, whether it is a charity, political promotion, sales gimmick, or hundreds of other things. Accordingly, every article (even those for "good" causes) must satisfy the standard policies, primarily notability, but also verifiability and neutral point of view, and others. In essence, the topic of an article must be recognized by reliable sources as being sufficiently "notable" that the sources have written about the topic, and statements in the article must be capable of being verified by citing a reliable source, and language must be neutral (not promotional and not unduly critical). It is fine to say that "X is the best [or worst] whatever" if reliable sources verify the claim, but the normal gushing text that is seen on most organization's website is not suitable here. The best thing you could do would be to ask a WikiProject for help, as I outlined on your talk page. An alternative would be to find an active editor with an interest in the field (someone who has edited relevant articles). Unfortunately these suggestions will be hard to implement in practice because of your specialized topic.

Here are some quick thoughts re your draft at User:Ebieberich/sandbox (we speak pretty bluntly here, so whereas I would like to help, I have to be honest): Sorry, but the text is exactly what should be on an organization's website, and is not suitable for Wikipedia. Language like "a vibrant platform" is not neutral; while such expressions could easily be cleaned up, the core content is clearly a promotion of the conference with very little general encyclopedic value. Details such as when the conference occurs, or what activities take place, are not suitable (they should be on the official website). Suitable content would include what independent reliable sources have written about the conference. Sorry to bring this bad news, and by all means ask for other suggestions if you like. Johnuniq (talk) 07:40, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. That helps. I have substantially changed the article, but it looks as if RHaworth still thinks it won't be notable. Well, surely he is right because many important scientific conferences are not referenced by other significant and reliable sources (I mean when do you read about a smaller conference in journals or newspapers?). Any insignificant celebrity who falls into oblivion in a couple of years will have enough referenced publicity to block space on wikipedia while important conferences get slashed. That can't be true! Happy Holidays anyway. Ebieberich (talk) 01:06, 18 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid that what you describe is an unfortunate side effect of Wikipedia's procedures. I sometimes visit articles on wrestlers or singers or other topics, while following the trail of a vandal, and it can be pretty disheartening to see some of the rubbish on Wikipedia: well sourced, notable trivia. Johnuniq (talk) 02:03, 18 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

re:Talk:Race and intelligence

Hi - thanks for the message. I would not try to archive that again, because it really is out of process since there's automatic archival of threads 14 days old.

Listen, let them feel like they're having their say, even though the manner in which they're saying it is so over-the-top that nobody can hear their actual words. Collapse boxes around those long lists of cites might help for the sake of space on the page, and they're certainly not out of process to add.

I'm sorry I couldn't be much help, and I know you're frustrated. Hang in there. :-) Krakatoa Katie 04:19, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am not going to investigate the issue at the moment...

Johnuniq,

While I will continue to respect your opinion, I find your last post in talk:sentence spacing, that began with the words that are now the header of this section, unconstructive. IMO the post ignores previous repeated requests I have made regarding your use of off-topic commentary, and repeated requests to make new headers for off-topic content. Rightly or wrongly, I expect you to be an exemplar for Wikipedians.

The non-discussion in "How a Variable-Width Font Works" typifies an on-going problem. There are seven responses in this section, not a single one that is on-topic. For my part, I have made a sincere effort to redirect the off-topic commentary back to the topic at hand. IMO your involvement has been neither helpful nor reasonable. If you don't have an opinion that "Part 5 of 11" of the Microsoft reference applies to proportional fonts; then either form an opinion and join the discussion, or don't post in this section. Do you have a problem with that?

Regarding your objection that I have not been clear in what I wanted, I don't agree that I have been anything less than clear in requesting that you avoid off-topic content, and apply new headers rather than add off-topic content. Please accept my apologies for any part of this post that goes beyond a neutral tone. Thanks, RB 66.217.117.36 (talk) 00:42, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This refers to Talk:Sentence spacing#BRD discussion for edit 402814700.

You are writing too much and not directly responding to text written by others. In my comment that you mention above, I point out that you had posted 8 times in 24 hours on the talk page of an article concerned with the practice of using one space or two spaces between sentences. Furthermore, those posts came after a lot of other talk page activity; that much discussion is not warranted.

May I make a suggestion? Regular editors here see far too much irrelevant commentary, and their brains go into automatic after reading a couple of off-topic sentences. You are inadvertently obfuscating your point because you preface it with too much extraneous material. For a practical illustration of what I mean, I suggest that you should either comment here about my style (and if you like, request opinions at WP:WQA), or comment at Talk:Sentence spacing on a single point that relates to improving the article. It would be best to not mention jargon like "BRD" because it only obfuscates your point. For example, if you think something in the article should be changed, just clearly describe the change, then explain what is wrong with the old text, then explain why the new text is better (with any references). Johnuniq (talk) 01:42, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

re: WP:TALK policy, including off-topic content and make new sections for new topics

Johnuniq,

Policy applies to both the novices and the experienced Wikipedians such as yourself. WP:TALK notes, "The prime values of the talk page are communication, courtesy and consideration."

I have written to you twice about inappropriate posts on the Sentence spacing talk page, [here] and [here]. Each of these two posts were initiated to draw attention to your off-topic content and failure to make new sections for new topics. Yet the only response to date is a one-sentence defense of the right of "established editors" to have "some deficiency" in their posts.

In my opinion, your insistence that WP:TALK policy doesn't apply to you has disrupted the talk page. We are now at the first stages of dispute resolution. Physically, it is not difficult to click on the "new section" link, and type in a few words. Mentally, such an action may require clarity of thought, and possibly experience in factoring. However, as another human being, it is not necessarily a good idea for me to tell you in detail what I want you to do. That does not mean that I have not made a request for behavior change.

Sincerely, RB 66.217.117.192 (talk) 13:19, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly what have I done that is of concern to you? I'm sorry, but I cannot work that out. Please tell me which talk page (here or Talk:Sentence spacing or elsewhere), and tell me the time stamp or a brief extract from the comment so I can search for it. Also, please tell me what the problem is.

I made a blunt comment to you ("I cannot see any proposal for an improvement to the article. Please provide such a proposal or stop posting comments."), but such bluntness is normal here, particularly after my prior polite request (visible in above diff). Is that the problem?

Apart from any possible problem from me, I thought that you had an issue with some text written by other editors which referred to external parties. And above I offered to manually archive the text to remove it from public view. I went to a fair bit of trouble to do that, first obtaining consent from all parties, then doing the archiving, and I put a "no index" tag at the top of the archive so Google will not index it because you expressed concern about that. Did I misunderstand, and it was something else you wanted me to do? Of course WP:TALK applies to me. What is the dispute that requires resolution? If you use direct language to tell me exactly what the problem is I would be in a better position to respond. My reference to "some deficiency" was to say that we do not normally refactor comments, particularly those made by other editors. I thought there was a disagreement (not involving me) at Talk:Sentence spacing where editors had reverted your attempts to refactor their comments, and I was just saying that we normally do not try to correct a deficiency in comments. Then (above) I gathered that you wanted some material removed, which is when I suggested the archiving, and which has effectively hidden the text (which, again, came from other editors and is not related to me). Johnuniq (talk) 00:08, 24 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We are currently experiencing a near-total breakdown in communication, so my responses will be limited, and focused on getting agreement.

Thank you for agreeing that WP:TALK policy applies to you.

Do you agree that in a general sense, off-topic content is contrary to WP:TALK policy?

Do you agree that if Editor A creates a section titled "BRD discussion for edit 402814700", and that Editor A provides a diff to [diff], and that Editor A identifies the number of bytes that were removed by the diff, and that Editor A states, "Please begin the BRD discussion for the revert to 402814700"; that Editor A did not invite a discussion about edit 402828532 [diff here]?

Do you agree that if Editor B wants to talk about Editor/Admin C's introduction of the phrase, "Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle", and the subsequent use by Editor A of the mnemonic "BRD"; that it would be reasonable to begin such a discussion in a new section, perhaps titled Application of the phrase "Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle" and the mnemonic "BRD"?

I hope you will find that all three of these questions can be answered with the word, "Yes". Thanks, RB 66.217.117.68 (talk) 01:42, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I presume that I am one of Editor A/B/C, and you believe I did something wrong. However, I do not see why you won't simply tell me what the problem is, and what you want me to do. I guess you are talking about my comment (with "23:59, 17 December 2010" UTC timestamp) at Talk:Sentence spacing#BRD discussion for edit 402814700 (diff). Part of that comment was "there is no urgency to this matter so 8 posts in the last 24 hours is not helpful to the encyclopedia (particularly, given all the previous discussion on this and related issues)". The article in question concerns whether sentences should be separated by one or two spaces: it is a not a fast-developing field, and making many changes to the talk page (and on other pages such as here) causes too much trouble for other editors. You may get better results if you focus on one issue at a time, and allow several days for other editors to respond to that one issue.

Re your question about WP:TALK: May I suggest that you assume I have a good grasp of Wikipedia basics. Please speak directly: if you think I have breached some guideline, say so, and provide details. Johnuniq (talk) 07:44, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have never questioned your grasp of Wikipedia basics; in fact, I have said that I will continue to respect your opinion. The issue momentarily is that because you were either unwilling or unable to respond to the three questions, we have made no progress in building consensus. Regarding your viewpoint that I have not stated a problem and a resolution, I've added a subsection here that documents that I have used the words "off-topic" ten times without a response. I wonder if it is possible that you re-read the posts including the title of this section and consider the possibility that they clearly state a problem and clearly state an appropriate behavior. RB 66.217.118.116 (talk) 00:29, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Analysis of the words "off-topic"

Analysis of the words "off-topic" in discussion between RB and Johnuniq

Summary: RB has used the words "off-topic" ten times. In five replies, Johnuniq has responded with those words zero times.

Mnemonics used below are: Johnuniq (JQ), Talk:Sentence spacing (Talk_SS), and User talk:Johnuniq (UTalk_J).

JQ: 07:37 14 December 2010, Talk_SS: first JQ post in "How a Variable-Width Font Works"

RB: 09:40 14 December 2010, Talk_SS: "off-topic comments"
JQ: 10:11 14 December 2010, Talk_SS: no response regarding "off-topic"

RB: 22:54 14 December 2010, UTalk_J: New Section: "off-topic content"
RB: 22:54 14 December 2010, UTalk_J: "off-topic comment"
RB: 22:54 14 December 2010, UTalk_J: "off-topic content"
JQ: 00:53 15 December 2010, UTalk_J: no response regarding "off-topic"

JQ: 23:59 17 December 2010, Talk_SS: first JQ post in "BRD discussion for edit 402814700"

RB: 00:42 23 December 2010, UTalk_J: "<your post ignores> repeated requests I have made regarding your use of off-topic commentary..."
RB: 00:42 23 December 2010, UTalk_J: <describing a multi-author sequence> "not a single <response> that is on-topic"
RB: 00:42 23 December 2010, UTalk_J: <describing a multi-author sequence> "I have made a sincere effort to redirect the off-topic commentary back to the topic at hand".
RB: 00:42 23 December 2010, UTalk_J: "I don't agree that I have been anything less than clear in requesting that you avoid off-topic content...".
JQ: 01:42 23 December 2010, UTalk_J: no response regarding "off-topic". The post uses the words "off-topic", but the usage is not a response.

RB: 13:19 23 December 2010, UTalk_J: New Section: "...off-topic content..."
RB: 13:19 23 December 2010, UTalk_J: "Each of these two posts were initiated to draw attention to your off-topic content..."
JQ: ~~01:42~~00:08 2324 December 2010, UTalk_J: no response regarding "off-topic content"

RB: ~~13:19~~01:42 2326 December 2010, UTalk_J: "Do you agree that in a general sense, off-topic content is contrary to WP:TALK policy?"
JQ: 07:44 26 December 2010, UTalk_J: Non-commital response does not use the words "off-topic".

RB 66.217.118.116 (talk) 23:26, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your first message here was nearly two weeks ago and I still do not know what the problem is. My first reply to you on this page is above with timestamp 00:53, 15 December 2010 (UTC) (diff) and I suggested what I thought was the issue, but now I'm wondering if it is something else, namely this comment I made at Talk:Sentence spacing#How a Variable-Width Font Works where I said "This is not a page for protracted discussions. Please make a brief comment that is compatible with WP:TPG and WP:NOTFORUM, and make it clear what you are proposing as an improvement to the article." Is that the problem? What do you want me to do? Please speak directly. If you want me to redact the "07:37, 14 December 2010" comment, my response is I do not see any reason to do that. Johnuniq (talk) 07:16, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

V. V . Sorry. If gone against rule . but help out Johnuniq, i will not be active in wikipedia for sometime.Now you know the case. Remove your stop message so that helper coming to rescue my page may get wrong signal . & Find out the way pls. . Regards- Dralansun (talk) Regards- Dralansun (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:22, 27 December 2010 (UTC).[reply]