Commons:Deletion requests/File:Caledonides EN.svg

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File:Caledonides EN.svg

DW of unidentified atlas per uploader - unknown copyright situation. Jcb (talk) 14:27, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Have you gone insane? I wrote "simplified". These coast lines are common knowledge, you can find them in any source and there is no copyright on them. Or do you really think I copied a map? Think twice. I have been around here, I know the copyright issues we face. Woudloper (talk) 14:35, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

What you described at my user talk page indeed constitutes that you infringed the copyright of an unidentified atlas. And yes, maps are copyrighted. I have been around here as well and I have seen many maps being deleted for the exact same reason. Jcb (talk) 14:54, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

The copyright of the atlas is a copyright on their creation, which was a map. This is not a copy of that map. It is a creation that constitutes many elements. One of these elements is a set of simplified coast lines, shapes. These shapes can also be found in a much more elaborate and detailed form in that atlas/map.

So the element you worry about is only very roughly, and only partly, similar to the one in that atlas. In fact these coastlines are well-known, and can be found, taken and simplified from any map/source of the same area. You can take a map within the public domain (19th century) and get the exact same result. Woudloper (talk) 15:14, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

The result of using a free map may be similar, but it's a misconception to think that every map of a given part of the world will be the same. The main cause for that is that maps are flat most of the time, while the earth is not. The creation of a map demands several choices, that have to be taken carefully based on what you want to show with the map and how you want to use is. E.g. do you want to put more weight on a minimum variation in scale or on a minimum variation in orientation. Jcb (talk) 17:24, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

A map can not claim copyrights on the flow of a coast line, and an image can not be deleted because "unknown rights from an unknown source are possibly violated". Edoderoo (talk) 17:47, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

You did not understand my previous comment, did you? The flow of a coast line my not be copyrightable, the way this flow is projected in a map is eligible for copyright. And about the unknown source, uploader already admitted that they traced a map from an atlas. Atlasses are nonfree most of the time, so that as long as uploader does not provide more information on their source we must assume this source to be nonfree. Jcb (talk) 17:53, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

File:Caledonides KM.png and File:Caledonides KM.svg are related to this.--Roy17 (talk) 16:00, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

 Keep This is getting utterly ridiculous. Woudloper never stated that he copied an atlas. He stated that an atlas was used as a point of reference. That doesn't make something a derivative work. If I use an entry of the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography as a reference to write an article my article isn't a derivative work or a copyright violation. The same applies when you use a map in an atlas as a source for some basic facts and draw a new map based on those common facts. If Woudloper copied a map the DR would be justified but he didn't.

Jcb, please skip the high school level lecture about the creation of maps. You are speaking too someone with a professional background in geology who has more experience than you do when it comes to creating and working with maps. What you are doing is patronizing. Natuur12 (talk) 18:43, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

If you are unable the click the link, I will copy the text here. Woudloper wrote: "I believe I took an atlas and made a very simplified copy of the coast lines in different maps: one for North America, one for Europe in this case.". Jcb (talk) 20:26, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

 Keep Wouloper has made clear that these outlines are not faithful copies of an original, but simplifications based on an original, which is a different matter entirely. Mikenorton (talk) 19:44, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

 Keep User:Jcb seems to have a limited knowledge of the English language. When somebody states that he has "copied" something, a map in this case, it leaves open the specifics. The proper course of action would have been to ask how it was copied. Tracing is a way of copying, perfectly acceptable. --VanBuren (talk) 20:49, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

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Kept: per discussion and COM:DW: "Geographic or topographic features: Those are facts, and facts are not copyrightable.". P 1 9 9  ✉ 18:19, 9 July 2019 (UTC)