Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid

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These show a building by w:Bèi Yùmíng.

On two of the images, the building is de minimis. Those two should be deleted because of artworks by w:Tony Cragg (File:La pyramide du musée du Louvre (6269037550).jpg) and w:Wim Delvoye (File:Un "suppo" sous la pyramide du Louvre (7166203965).jpg).

Stefan4 (talk) 22:52, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Deleted: . .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 12:46, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 2

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I hate to do this, but see Commons:Deletion requests/Pictures of the Louvre Pyramid and Category:Louvre Pyramid-related deletion requests: The Louvre pyramid is a copyrighted artwork by I.M. Pei (still alive). France has no freedom of panorama. In these pictures, the pyramid is the main subject of the image, so unfortunately there's no exception like De minimis. There may be more problematic images in this category, I just picked the ones that seemed to be more or less clear cases for now.

El Grafo (talk) 13:42, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose deletion of File:P1030568 (5015328803).jpg. The main object is the old Louvre, seen through some glas. Marcus Cyron (talk) 14:07, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 3

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No Fop in France.

Thesupermat (talk) 16:46, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted, except those where the pyramid is not the main object. Materialscientist (talk) 03:16, 10 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 4

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{{NoFoP-France}}.

* File:Louvre at dusk.JPG * File:Louvre at dusk2.JPG already kept in previous DR --Denniss (talk) 13:03, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

* File:Louvre Museum - entrance.jpg per comment below --Denniss (talk) 13:03, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

* File:Louvre Museum Wikimedia Commons 2.jpg not main object --Denniss (talk) 13:07, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Josve05a (talk) 04:23, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: most are not DM. The pyramid is to prominent, captured intentionally or the images was even used to illustrate the pyramid. Doesn't fit DM. According to the Frech FOP-template "accessory compared to the main represented or handled subject". Natuur12 (talk) 16:36, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 5

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The pyramid is still covered by copyright (the architect, Ieoh Ming Pei, is alive), there is no FOP in France and COM:De minimis is not applicable for these files. Per archives, see Category:Louvre Pyramid-related deletion requests.

VIGNERON (talk) 14:22, 17 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted. INeverCry 00:41, 24 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 6

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{{NoFoP-France}} Some of these (~3-5) may have already been kept in an earlier DR, but under a false premise, such as Commons:Deletion requests/File:Louvre at dusk.JPG. I feellike it would be benificial to have a new and 'clean' disussion about these files.

Josve05a (talk) 11:42, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment As two pictures of mine are affected - with one even serving as the prime example for alleged false premises - I'd like to maintain that the principle of de minimis should be applied at least to File:Louvre at dusk.JPG and File:Louvre at dusk2.JPG. They are in fact very similar to the images used to illustrate De Minimis in France --Martin Falbisoner (talk) 12:08, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Therefore  Keep, also per above --Martin Falbisoner (talk) 07:28, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment Same for my picture which was not even nominated for deletion in the last round where 5 others were removed. I find this repeated request is itself under false premises and object strongly. Dfg13 (talk) 16:30, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep File:Louvre Museum - entrance.jpg, as I already wrote in March: the pyramid is an "accessory to the main handled subject" - the entrance. It also has been discussed and excepted here and obove. --Euku:⇄ 07:22, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Deleted, after consulting Category:Louvre Pyramid-related deletion requests/kept I decided to delete all the photos. Object under construction can also be protected with copyright, if enough copyrightable details are seen. General views about museum can also be protected with copyright, if the museum is protected with copyright, that means, if enough copyrightable details are seen. Taivo (talk) 08:03, 8 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 7

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{{NoFoP-France}} As earlier DRs (above).

Josve05a (talk) 19:45, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: but kept one. From the perspeĉtive it becomes quite clear that the pyramid is there intentional and is indeed one of the main subjects. Natuur12 (talk) 14:08, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 8

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No Commons:Freedom of panorama in France.

EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:44, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

 Support --The Photographer (talk) 14:56, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Blacked-out version kept, others deleted: none of these images complies with de minimis. For re-upload, please black out or crop. --Pitke (talk) 05:53, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --Pitke (talk) 05:53, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 9

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This building has been designed by Ieoh Ming Pei (b. 1917), an architect who is still alive. As there is no freedom of panorama in France, this picture should be removed from Commons.

Pymouss Let’s talk - 21:25, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --lNeverCry 23:47, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 10

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No FOP in France.

Thesupermat (talk) 09:09, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thesupermat (talk) 09:14, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment I deleted all files where the pyramid is the central element. For the rest, it could be argued that the pyramid is unavoidable (cf. the Terreaux case), or a secondary element. Regards, Yann (talk) 09:47, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Deleted, but some are  kept, because not enough copyrightable details can be seen. Taivo (talk) 19:13, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 11

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The Louvre pyramid is a copyrighted artwork by I. M. Pei. France has no freedom of panorama. In these pictures, the pyramid is one of the main subjects of the images, so there is no exception like De minimis.

Ras67 (talk) 18:04, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Nominator Ras67, the rationale for deletion you placed on ALL these images was "the pyramid is one of the main subjects of the images, so there is no exception like De minimis."
Frankly, I have found the closures of discussions that revolve around FOP and de minimis, in France, to be pretty inconsistent, and unpredictable. Some discussions where I thought the images were sure to be deleted ended up being kept because the closing administrator concluded the questionable element was merely "one of" the elements of those images.
I uploaded one of these images, one that shows the square in front of the Louvre, including the pyramid. The Pyramid takes up less than ten percent of that image's real estate, less than one third of the horizontal span of the image.
Did you intend everyone weighing in here to take a meaningful look at all two dozen images? Do you think it might have made sense for you to have further broken them down, separating the few where most of the image was of the pyramid, from those where the image was really of the square in front of the Louvre?
How about going back and adding your estimate of how much of each images' real estate is taken up the pyramid?
In my opinion, these two dozen images should not have been the subject of a single nomination, because they are not sufficiently alike. Geo Swan (talk) 21:55, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You want a nomination for each picture alone? IMHO all pictures have the same problem. The question is, where is de minimis exceeded and where not. May the closing admin decide, therefor is this discusion. But you have right, this procedure is inconsistent and unpredictable like the whole subject. Regards --Ras67 (talk) 22:18, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
One has to understand the decision of the Cour de cassation in the Terreaux case to decide what is OK and what is not, which is a bit complex. In short, it says that if a copyrighted work appears unavoidable in a general picture, then it is acceptable.
I am surprised we don't have an article about this. In 2005, the Cour de cassation said that general pictures of the Terreaux square in Lyon, including the work of art by Daniel Buren are not violation of the author's copyright. Regards, Yann (talk) 23:10, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We have a guideline, but how tight is the commentary. The pyramid as central element of the place is in almost every image unavoidable. To "freeing" a picture you have to photograph the whole place? Where is the threshold? To my nomination i've included the pyramid's space and in relation the space of all other (non copyrighted) elements. I don't know if this proceeding is correct.--Ras67 (talk) 13:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
IANA, but I think our interpretation of French is too strict. As it is said on the FOP page, a picture is not a derivative work if the work of art is a mere element blended into an architectural ensemble. Regards, Yann (talk) 22:47, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Deleted, apparently nobody wants to close the request and I must close it again. I keep all the photos previously kept or undeleted. File:January Mon Dieu Palais Louvre Paris - Master Earth Photography 2014 - series France saphir pictures - panoramio.jpg is de minimis.

I explain keeping file:Parisienne2002-1.jpg. Pyramid is simple geometrical figure and not copyrightable. Louvre Pyramid is not a simple geometrical figure and it is copyrightable. It's not allowed to use non-trivial details of copyrighted objects. But under some circumstances the photo has no copyrightable details, only simple geometrical figure, which isn't copyrightable. These photos can be in Commons. Taivo (talk) 12:26, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 12

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No FOP in France

Thesupermat (talk) 09:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thesupermat: Half of these are already nominated. There is no need to do it again. Then images are acceptable if the pyramid is an unavoidable element in the whole composition (decision of the Cour de Cassation regarding the Terreaux case). Regards, Yann (talk) 09:49, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Yann: are you sure? "Paris Musée du Louvre - panoramio - Nikolai Karaneschev.jpg" is the only file I see already nominated (nothing on this page and nothing on the talk page of these file). I've put a gallery to show that in most of these photos the Pyramid is the main subject and not really an unavoidable element.
At least for the Paris Louvre Cour d'Honneur Pyramide 09 to 16 and for Paris, France (Unsplash QrpX-2tPmNY), I would say  Delete.
Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 10:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I am sure. I nominated them myself. I think File:Paris Louvre Cour d'Honneur Pyramide 03.jpg, File:Paris Louvre Cour d'Honneur Pyramide 04.jpg, File:Paris Louvre Cour d'Honneur Pyramide 05.jpg and File:Louvre Palace (5986775507).jpg could be kept. Regards, Yann (talk) 10:20, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted most of them. Kept the four mentioned by Yann and one additional that has already been deemed fine in two previous DRs on this page. --Majora (talk) 00:35, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 13

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COM:FOP France

Roy17 (talk) 14:32, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Per nomination. Even the last one has the pyramid as a very prominent feature. Sebari – aka Srittau (talk) 17:42, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 14

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No FOP in France, thus the Louvre Pyramid is still protected by copyright.

大诺史 (Talk/留言/토론/Discussion) 05:21, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@D-Kuru: pd ineligible is possible, but only if the object is really simple, like a flagpole or an obelisk.--Roy17 (talk) 20:53, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Roy17: And what is so special about a simple tetrahedron / pyramid? The general shape is ineligible for copyriht in my opinion. Close up images of the roof construction may be not. --D-Kuru (talk) 21:16, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep File:Automatic window cleaner, Louvre 11 December 2007.jpg.  Delete everything else since the pyramid is the primary subject.--Roy17 (talk) 20:53, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: most, except those Darwin pointed out. Sebari – aka Srittau (talk) 17:52, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 15

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No FOP in France, thus the Louvre Pyramid is still protected by copyright.

Minoraxtalk (formerly 大诺史) 14:44, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Delete Clear cases. Sebari – aka Srittau (talk) 00:01, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. Ahmadtalk 18:42, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 16

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No FOP in France, thus the Louvre Pyramid is still protected by copyright. Don't think these can be considered as COM:DM

Minoraxtalk (formerly 大诺史) 12:13, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --P 1 9 9  ✉ 15:53, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 17

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No FOP in France, thus the Louvre Pyramid is still protected by copyright. Don't think these can be considered as COM:DM

 Keep --Tangopaso (talk) 19:54, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Delete --Tangopaso (talk) 19:54, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Minoraxtalk (formerly 大诺史) 15:53, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am the uploader. OK for suppression of File:Strikes at the Louvre Pyramid 2.jpg. But for File:Strikes at the Louvre Pyramid 1.jpg, the main subjects of the photo are the strike and the Louvre. Not the pyramid. This is a case of COM:DM. --Tangopaso (talk) 19:54, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep I cropped the file above to remove most of the pyramid. Regards, Yann (talk) 23:54, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why? On File:Strikes at the Louvre Pyramid 1.jpg, the pyramid is not totally visible. The bottom of the pyramid is hidden by people. It shows that the pyramid is not the main subject. This is a case of COM:DM. --Tangopaso (talk) 18:17, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Tangopaso: Are you willing to crop out the top of each photo, down to the top of the head of the tallest depicted person? I would accept that.   — Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me 22:27, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Jeff G.: I uploaded a new version. I hope it will please you. --Tangopaso (talk) 19:49, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Tangopaso: I think you did not crop enough from 1, and you didn't crop 2 at all. Pinging @Minorax as nom.   — Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me 15:39, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I said OK to delete the #1 picture. I cropped again File:Strikes at the Louvre Pyramid 2.jpg to preserve and save my photo. But I disagree, the precedent cropping was enough. --Tangopaso (talk) 17:20, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Tangopaso: Did you mean  Keep #1 and  Delete #2? I share your view. IMO image #1 is cropped enough to make the Louvre Pyramid in de minimis. Admins should delete the first two verson of File:Strikes at the Louvre Pyramid 1.jpg if you keep it. --A1Cafel (talk) 05:17, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@A1Cafel: Oops... I meant  Keep #1 (cropped with the pyramid in de minimis) and  Delete #2 (with the whole pyramid). --Tangopaso (talk) 18:24, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep First and  Delete second per above, the copyrighted parts should be cropped as like the first one to avoid FOP problems. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:51, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kept Yann (talk) 23:58, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 18

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No FOP in France, thus the Louvre Pyramid is still protected by copyright. Don't think these can be considered as COM:DM

Minoraxtalk 11:11, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Yann (talk) 23:59, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 19

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The building was completed by architect I. M. Pei (1917–2019) in 1989. Unfortunately, there is no freedom of panorama in France. The copyright term lasted for 70 years, and the images can be undeleted in 2090.

A1Cafel (talk) 14:29, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep for File:Palais du Louvre 003.jpg due to de minimis.
 Delete for all other --Ras67 (talk) 00:34, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Delete per nom, above sections.   — Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me 05:12, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nom. --Minoraxtalk 13:02, 16 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 20

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pyramid too big (main subject of the photo) to be a FoP exception

— Draceane talkcontrib. 08:22, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Deleted: per nom. Christian Ferrer (talk) 19:56, 30 October 2021 (UTC)--[reply]

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Files in Category:Louvre Pyramid 21

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No Freedom of Panorama in France. COM:FOP France. Creator was Ieoh Ming Pei. He died 2019. The files can be restored in 2090.

Lukas Beck (talk) 10:06, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lukas Beck, I think that before you propose this massive request, you should at least check if it was kept as File talk:South facade of the Richelieu Wing (162242079).jpg or if broke any rule...
All that I opened should be kept as the protected monument is not the main object or occupy a significant area of the photo.
Read the previous discussion before this propostions. -- Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton m 23:45, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep for all, see quotation below. --Ras67 (talk) 00:34, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
“One has to understand the decision of the Cour de cassation in the Terreaux case to decide what is OK and what is not, which is a bit complex. In short, it says that if a copyrighted work appears unavoidable in a general picture, then it is acceptable.
I am surprised we don't have an article about this. In 2005, the Cour de cassation said that general pictures of the Terreaux square in Lyon, including the work of art by Daniel Buren are not violation of the author's copyright. Regards, Yann”

Kept: no valid reason for deletion. --VIGNERON (talk) 17:29, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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