Talk:Manchester Arena bombing

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Two possible things

We cant say anything until reliable sources weigh in about the cause but either this is terrorism, or an accident. Even if terrorist organizations claim responsibility we cant go by it until things are confirmed. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:50, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

its 1am UK time. Police unlikely to be saying much until 6am or so.©Geni (talk) 00:01, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

To be perfectly clear, Wikipedia will only accept reliably sourced, neutral information. If you don't have a source, don't add it to the article. We really don't care if your grandmother is live-Tweeting the event. Rklawton (talk) 23:56, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, where is this Sky News source? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:56, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ariana Grande navigation template?

Should Template:Ariana Grande be added to the bottom of this article? (This is assuming "2017 Manchester Arena incident" is added to the navigation template's "Related topics" section.) ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:02, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not at this stage.©Geni (talk) 00:10, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"In the news"?

Is this "In the news" worthy? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:08, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Far too soon for that. GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:10, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Another Believer: This is a matter to be discussed on Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates. In any case, they will likely refrain from posting it until concrete information is known.--Sunshineisles2 (talk) 00:12, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Terrorist attack"

@DHeyward: Where are you seeing it confirmed as a terror attack? It really should stay titled an "incident" until officially labeled as such; even if police have said they're "treating the incident as terror-related". GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:09, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's too early to call it a "terrorist attack". We shouldn't speculate or sensationalize until we have sources that have facts. Even if it is a likely conclusion--v/r - TP 00:09, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Agreed, (to editors) unless you are prepared to add a source, please don't label this as terrorism as it is misleading. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:11, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
According to Sky people are being treated for "shrapnel-type injuries", this could mean a lot of things but my first thought was the Boston Marathon bombing. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:18, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here is one [1]. Every news outlet (BBC, Telegraph, etc) and police statement is treating it as a terrorist attack. If they are treating it as a terrorist attack, why would we not treating it as a terrorist attack? --DHeyward (talk) 00:28, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Because their default procedure is to treat explosions like a terrorist attack until they know otherwise. We need to avoid latching on to every bit of information as if it's concrete and accurate. We have higher standards than...sorry to say it...the media these days.--v/r - T P 00:35, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Greater Manchester Police twitter has now stated that they are treating it as a terrorist incident until there is sufficient evidence overwise. Kingsif (talk) 00:28, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

They're following their procedures for these types of matters which begins with assuming the worst. We aren't in any rush, here. We're not a news site, we're not for speculating or sensationalism. We can take our time to get it right.--v/r - T P 00:30, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(I'm on phone so it's hard to write references) News outlets also say that dozens of children who got separated in the incident are being sheltered at a nearby hotel; police attested one man from inside a vehicle but without resistance; there is no "mark yourself safe" on Facebook yet; at around midnight local time, a man began shooting at Oldham Hospital (within greater Manchester - notably related, not going to get it's own page) Kingsif (talk) 00:31, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We aren't a news site. The news will cover this. We're a encyclopedia.--v/r - T P 00:32, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And we follow sources. Sources are treating this as a terrorist attack. They have said so. There is no "assume the worst" police procedure to treat everything as a terrorist attack until proven otherwise. Quite the opposite. You can test this theory out by lighting your house on fire and see if they the fire department responds or if the police arrive, "assume the worst" and treat like a terrorist attack. --DHeyward (talk) 00:38, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

DHeyward, these sources are not using confident wording. What if we jump to conclusions and get it wrong? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:40, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Treating" as a terrorist attack is a comment on their procedures not on what they suspect. First responders are not investigators. Wait for the investigators. We're not a blog, news, or the Daily Mail. We don't speculate. We're an encyclopedia.--v/r - T P 00:41, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The oldham thing doesn't appear to have happened and there is no evidence that the arrest was related to the incident.©Geni (talk) 00:32, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

^ that's in the wrong place.

Here: what is your resistance to using the language that, now, literally every news source and the actual police on the ground dealing with it is!? They would not confirm if as terrorism unless they believed it to be, and if you still think it's somehow sensationalist then just phrase it as someone reaction with quotation marks. Kingsif (talk) 00:34, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

They are treating it as a terrorist incident, which is the same as saying it's potentially a terrorist attack; they are not saying or confirming that it's a terrorist attack. "Terrorist attack" is an unusual title for Wikipedia, so let's hope no one tries to use it when the protection's lifted. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 00:36, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) @TParis: Facebook Safety Check has been activated. — Gestrid (talk) 00:36, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So? It is WP:UNDUE. When this article is finished, it's most likely not going to mention facebook's safety check. We're an encyclopedia, not the news.--v/r - T P 00:38, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the words being used in sources... "possible" "unconfirmed", "may have", and "not yet". - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:37, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Because they haven't confirmed it as terrorism. They said they are treating it like terrorism because those procedures offer the most protection for their cops and the bystandards. This is about their procedure, not what they think. By tomorrow, we'll start hearing from investigators about what they think. But we don't start reporting first responders procedures as facts.--v/r - T P 00:37, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of whether this is or not, convention is to title by basic description. 9/11 isn't the September 11 terror attacks, it is the September 11 attacks. Ditto the 2017 Stockholm attack, 2017 Saint Petersburg Metro bombing and 2017 shooting of Paris police officers. I'm not seeing a reason to deviate from this stance. Fuebaey (talk) 00:39, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I also noticed that the lead of Ariana Grande's article calls it a terrorist bombing and if there is a agreement that it should not be called that here it the terminology should not be used there. The article is currently protected so could someone please make the change until we have stronger sourcing.--64.229.167.158 (talk) 00:43, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Temporary page protection?

Resolved

Is there support for temporary page protection of some sort, given the many page moves, reverting, etc? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:09, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~We've only had two.~~--v/r - TP 00:10, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- This works for me. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:10, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Nevermind, if I had seen the others, I'd have protected it myself.--v/r - TP 00:11, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - Thank you. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:12, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict × 2) I've fully move protected the page for 24 hours to avoid any more page moves before there both reliable sources and consensus agree it should be retitled. Thryduulf (talk) 00:12, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you, this seems reasonable. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- @TParis: Sorry, I thought you said "I protected it myself". @Thryduulf: Much thanks! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reddit live event

Reddit has started a live event for the Manchester explosion. While it is not a reliable source, the links it sends out (official tweets, statements, etc.) may be reliable. — Gestrid (talk) 00:38, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]