Talk:Post-it note

Patent?

Does anyone know when (or if) Post-Its were patented? Or maybe when other companies first began producing them as well? Dansiman 04:45, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

i wonder too if post-its may belong to Category:Genericized trademark? Chensiyuan 01:31, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

The article now says "Until the 1990s, when the patent expired, Post-it notes were only produced in the 3M plant in Cynthiana, Kentucky" but the patent was issued on September 12, 1972 so wouldn't it have expired on September 12, 1989? 144.212.3.4 (talk) 17:18, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

How does the glue work?

Came here hoping for an explanation of the distinctive glue on a post it note but none found. 84.9.72.249 23:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

- I remember reading about this some time ago. I'll check my info and touch up the article. 62.254.216.154 10:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I believe that the exact composition of the glue is a trade-secret of 3M. As to "how it works", the explanation is simple, provided you have a working knowledge of organic chemistry. 71.206.217.214 (talk) 03:48, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup needed

It seems someone added a number of unsourced details (which might still be correct, of course), that also contains several grammatical errors. See this diff. --Vinsci 02:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

inhaled through smoke

would the chemicals found in the paper be harmful to ones self if inhaled through smoke?

No more-so than smoking any other kind of glue. 71.206.217.214 (talk) 03:50, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

History

As it stands, the "History" of Post-it(R) Notes is mainly gibberish after the first few sentences. The original repositionable adhesive, based on elastomeric microspheres made by dispersion polymerization was patented by Spence Silver at 3M (US patent 3,691,140). It is clear from the patent specification that his original intention was to make an adhesive the could be applied by spraying, rather than a repositionable adhesive. The first significant use of the adhesive was to make sticky bulletin boards before its use in Post-it(R)Notes which was indeed pioneered by Art Fry.

I tried to further correct the historical account, adding dates and removing, for example, unsourced allegations that Spencer "stumbled upon" a glue that didn't work.--Kaicarver 18:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

To my knowledge, there is no truth whatever and I have seen no documentation whatever in regards to the allegation that any party was owed royalties or somehow slighted, or that any royalty agreement was established with any party in the early days of Post-it(R) Note history. This appears to be pure gibberish. An allegation of a verbal agreement "in the main" relayed by intermediaries? I have no idea what that even means, and I doubt the writer does either.

At various times between 1986 and 1997 I attended trade shows and FOP shows for 3M's office supplies division, and many people at various times came up at our booth and claimed that they had invented Post it notes. The inventor, Art Fry, who often went to these shows too, personally mentioned to me in the past that many many people had come up to him at various times stating that they had had the idea first, that they had somehow invented it, or whatever. Art told me that he usually asked them to tell him the story of what they did with the idea, that he'd love to hear about it, and wonders why they gave up on the idea? Normally they would mumble something like "well, I didn't do anything with the idea but I wish I had..." and that's the end of it.

Surely some Roman soldier somewhere 1400 years ago stuck a wad of pine pitch onto the back of a scrap of sheepskin and stuck it on the back of his chariot as a reminder and invented a sticky piece of paper. The idea of taping up a piece of paper is as old as tape itself. The real magic was in the particular kind of adhesive that was used.

- a 20-year 3M employee

I agree with "20-year". Before 3M invented Post-it notes, many people thought of the idea when trying to leave a note in a document or on a door when no removable tape was within reach. In the 1950's, a popular notepad was bound at the top edge with a simple strip of red adhesive tape. After most of the pages had been torn off, what remained was a single sheet of paper with a mildly sticky tape stuck to one edge. As a teen, I saved these self-stick pages and used them to leave messages for my family. I had friends who did the same. It was an obvious idea. Around 1960, I even wrote a letter to 3M suggesting they develop a pad of such self-stick pages. Thinking of this obvious idea was easy. What was hard (and patentable) was developing the right adhesive and manufacturing technique--as well as the right product name and marketing message. 3M did that and I have been a forever grateful customer. Larry Tesler (talk) 07:46, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Large Section Removed

Another Editor removed this unsourced and dubious (although fairly lengthy) section from the article. I am placing it here in case anyone wants to source some of it and reinsert it.

The original run of post-it notes were used as bookmarks for the aforementioned hymnal. The remainder were shown to 3M marketing dept. who rejected them as useless. At that point Art Fry looked for further investors and a consortium he found in proxies for Raymond Howard of Redlands Ca. whom in 1978 acquired a small fortune from the Gene Roddenberry Estate for having formatted Star Trek with Gene Roddenberry in 1964 at the age of "seven." Raymond Howard suggested that the hymnals as 3M saw them as well was a very limited market, and that he knew a girl who had Asperger's Syndrome and whose husband had to post with scotch tape and 3 X 5s menus for her to follow. That if 3 X 3s were produced with Silver's product that they would serve better for product distribution as "post-it notes!" Three products would be available in the market then, flag it's, post it notes, and the dispensers, and that Art Fry get credit and be on the board of CEOs. Distribution Ray Howard suggested via telephone conferencing was that the products be "cold call marketed" so that stores acquiring the product would only order per their demand. Within 3M the demand was immediate! Ray Howard was supposed to receive 5% royalties per this agreement and 3M to date has not complied with what was a verbal agreement relayed through his proxies as represented in the main by Thomas Fitzmaurice of Yucaipa Ca.

A more recent innovation is software that partly mimics the behaviour of Post-it notes on the computer desktop. Most of the current proprietary or open source packages limit the placement or "adhesion" of the virtual note to a fixed spot over or on the desktop, and a few permit sharing the notes through the Internet. Recent efforts like Project Looking Glass or PtiMemo have striven towards features which give a virtual equivalence to the versatility of the tangible Post-it.

Post-It notes are available in a wide variety of sizes and formats. Standard pads have the adhesive stripe on one edge, like in book binding. In the mid 80's, 3M launched a fan-folded version of Post-It pads with the adhesive stripe on alternative sides. These pads can be installed on a dispenser and dispense one-at-a-time like disposable tissue.

Due to a halt in production in late 2005, the circular post it notes are now the hardest to find variety.

Ardent^†alk_∈ 14:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Post Its in popular culture

Surely it is necessary to mention the plug for Post Its in Romy & Michelle's High School Reunion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.216.64.18 (talk) 07:28, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, it was the first time that they were mentioned in a movie, and probably the last. And they did speak of the exact product and who exactly they were invented by. Orangeave (talk) 17:06, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

"First and probably the last"? Post-it notes are a ubiquitous office product, and references "post-it+note"+site%3Aimdb.com appear a lot in modern television and cinema. A running joke in a film (even if they happen to namecheck the inventory of the product) doesn't add anything to an encyclopaedia reader's understanding of the subject. --McGeddon (talk) 10:44, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

This should be added under Popular Culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.172.162.156 (talk) 23:51, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

The inventor?

The article clearly gives credit for the Post-It note to Art Fry and, of course, the man responsible for the adhesive, Spence Silver. Who, then, is "Mark Haas"? He's credited with this invention in the article's opening sentence and is never mentioned again. And Google searches don't link that name to Post-It notes except in this Wikipedia article.

David Sol (talk) 15:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

harmful residue

www.nytimes.com/2008/03/07/opinion/l07post.html

Letter
Post-It Notes in Books?
NY Times March 7, 2008 p.A18

To the Editor:

Re “A Debunker on the Road to World War II” (Arts pages, March 4):

It’s odd and sad that Nicholson Baker, author of “Human Smoke: The Beginnings of World War II, the End of Civilization,” who takes second place to no one in his fetishism about all things ink-on-paper, should use Post-it notes as bookmarks in library books.

It is no secret that the glue residue they leave behind is harmful to paper.

John Sippel
Amherst, Mass., March 4, 2008
-69.87.199.30 (talk) 12:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

!

71.206.217.214 (talk) 04:01, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Mention proprietary nature of "Post-it" in lead paragraph?

I was surprised that the lead paragraph didn't mention at all the fact that Post-its are only manufactured by 3M; this seems almost more important than the paragraph's current content. I'm not sure how to phrase it, though. --Dan Griscom (talk) 14:03, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

All post-it notes are manufactured by 3M because they hold the copywright on the term - other companies produce the exact same thing, just called "Sticky Notes" instead - which happens to be a more recogniseable term outside the US. Maybe we should re-name this article to Sticky Notes since that refers to the actual object while "Post It Notes" refers to the copyright and this article is used for both post-it notes treated as copyright -and- sticky notes treated as public domain. Hanii (talk) 14:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Citation for Post-It Super Sticky

Looking at 3M's press release database there's a press release about the Post-It Super Sticky issued on the 16 of September 2003, titled "Post-it Notes Go Super Sticky: They're Not Just for Paper Anymore!".

Unfortunately it's a link to Business Wire, which you need an account to view. Does anyone know if there's a source for the press releases that doesn't require you to have an account?

There is of course the product page at http://www.3m.com/US/office/postit/products/prod_notes_ss.html which attests to their existence, but doesn't substatiate when they were introduced, as the press release would. Hikari (talk) 07:14, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Citation Needed

Can someone find a citation to support this assertion made in the first paragraph?

"The notes use a unique low-tack adhesive that enables Post-it Brand notes to be easily attached and removed without leaving marks or residue, unless used on white boards."

That sounds awfully like an advertisement, and even if it's true, do we know that it leaves marks on white boards? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omniferous (talk • contribs) 19:49, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

ART FRY DID NOT "INVENT" THE POST-IT(R) NOTE PAD

Art Fry is not the inventor of the Post-it(r) note pad. To claim oneself as being the "Inventor" of a product you must be the first of record to conceive the idea. 3M has no patent on the pad by Fry or anyone else. They did have a legitimate patent on the Post-it adhesive developed by employee Spencer Silver. But not the idea of using the adhesive to create a note pad with self adhesive pages. The pad inventor of record is a Walter Eugster, of Zurich, who in 1968 was granted Swiss Patent # 452-479. By this patents existence claims of "Inventor" or "Invention" belong only to Eugster. Concept or Manufacture of pads similar to Eugsters disclosure are designated as copying by "one skilled in the art".

Through Fry's efforts 3M decided to manufacture the note pads now trademarked "Post-it" Fry relates "in early 1974" concept of the note pad was brought about by need of a better Hymnal Marker. At that time 3M was aware of a pad having self-adhesive pages trademarked "Sticky Note"(tm). By 1974 over one million of these Sticky Note pads had been sold. TNG 17:23, 8 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomghere (talk • contribs)

1977 test market release source

The source saying post-its were first marketed in 1977 doesn't mention the subject anymore. It might be better to use this source instead: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/f08e8a9a-fcd7-11df-ae2d-00144feab49a.html#axzz18hyDnyKX I'd do it myself, but I don't know how to add or modify sources. --Tathar (talk) 02:31, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Done! Thanks for providing the source! AtticusX (talk) 06:00, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Game Show Question

The longest paragraph in this article about Post-It Notes is about a game show question. Does anyone else feel that's a lot of detail for this article? It's well-covered at the article for Money Drop. And does it belong in the section entitled "History"? If so, then shouldn't Romy & Michelle's High School Reunion also be under History? TruthGal (talk) 03:01, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

I am, once again, removing the material about the game show Million Dollar Money Drop from this article. As long as the article's information about the introduction of Post-it notes into the market is correct, the encyclopedia's responsibility to record relevant information about this topic has been met. Information about the game show's errors or questions about the accuracy of its claims belong in the article about the game show, not here (and it is, in fact, included there, although it may be judged to be an insignificant detail there as well). This article is properly about Post-it notes themselves, not about any problems that may have arisen as a result of their mention on a TV show. Deor (talk) 03:07, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree, this section is only trivially related to Post-it Notes. SQGibbon (talk) 05:14, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Amron

This has resurfaced in the news recently and it seems Alan Amron invented and was even selling his version in 1973. It seems that this should be mentioned since there will be a book coming out about it. The invention of post-it's has a kind of cult status so it is relevant. These are the court papers documenting the timeline http://www.thoughtdevelopmentinc.com/plan.pdf I see someone has been interested in deleting any mention of this from this page and the Arthur Fry page. Since there is a reasonable bit of documentation for this and since the statements are not adamant I think they should remain. Presumably more details about the veracity or context of these claims will follow as media attention is drawn to it. This is one media link http://eileenkoch.com/pr/post-it-notes-inventor-alan-amron-pens-the-truth-in-new-tell-all-memoir/. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cechafin (talk • contribs) 00:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

The problem is that your "media link" is the page of Amron's PR representative and thus not a reliable source acceptable for the information to be included here. We need independent sources. If Amron's book or his claims should be covered in reliable secondary sources that are not connected with him, they may merit a mention in the article; but neither a primary source (the court papers) nor a bit of PR puffery can be used to substantiate the material at this time. Please don't readd this until the book has actually been published and attracted the sort of published secondary analysis or treatment that could be used to properly source a discussion of the "controversy" in the article. Deor (talk) 02:41, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Interesting perspective. I am new to Wikipedia edits as I said. I see what you are getting at. I found several similar sources but it is hard to know if they are somehow all connected. Don't newspaper stories count? http://esbjournal.com/2011/02/who-really-invented-post-it-notes-publishers-clamor-to-tell-story/ is an online journal. I read over the relevant sections for inclusion in an article and it seems you are setting a strangely high bar to even make mention of this. Court papers exist and there are online articles. I see many wikipedia pages that include such current events and controversies and relevant background information even in cases where they possess some dubious nature. In this case, it is really hard to tell but it is down to more than just one man's word with no reputation on it. I found out about this because it seems to be widely talked about in inventors circles. Wikipedia seems an appropriate place for such a link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cechafin (talk • contribs) 21:27, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

The link in your post above is just a minimal rewriting of the Eileen Koch PR release that you linked in your original post here, so it's still not an independent source. Anyway, I've said my piece above; let's see what others think. Deor (talk) 14:20, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, the esbjournal.com source seems to be an (anonymous?) blog that's just taken a thesaurus to the press release. Per WP:SPS, we should "never use self-published sources as third-party sources about living people", and the gist here seems to be "Art Fry didn't invent the Post-It Note, I did". Wikipedia is all about reliable sources - if the 2011 press release and/or Amron's book failed to attract any significant press or industry coverage, then there's nothing to add here. --McGeddon (talk) 14:59, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

According to the actual court timeline (the PDF is just Amron's initial claim), it looks like Amron's court case was closed after a month, with the presiding judge "dismissing the deft 3M with prejudice with each party to bear its own costs", so I don't think the full court documents would be that useful as a source here. --McGeddon (talk) 15:08, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering about that ebs article since it seemed very similar but not entirely sure the reason for it. That is what is making it hard to sort this out. I have been looking around. Amron claimed there was a settlement but can't find more on that yet.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Cechafin (talk • contribs) 22:54, 9 October 2012‎

So I have recently come into possession of copies of a letter from 3M indicating a settlement and other court documents with the dates of evidence and marketing materials. There is also an affidavit from a Jeffrey Brown that this was done in 1974 when a company was set up for Amron called "Press On Memos Ltd." I am starting to take his claims very seriously. How would one write or include such information in an edit of the page? These are original sources. Could they be uploaded somewhere. I suspect there are ways to find such legal documents through links to government sites but haven't figured out how yet. (No OCR on these documents). Maybe this would be worth a new page entirely. Please advise.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Cechafin (talk • contribs) 03:49, 10 October 2012‎

Under WP:BLPPRIMARY, Wikipedia cannot use private letters or court documents to support a claim about a living person, such as "Art Fry did not invent the Post-It Note, Alan Amron did". These documents must first be published and discussed by a secondary source. --McGeddon (talk) 08:33, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I read this section over. However, my post was not to make a claim about a living person as the one you state. I was looking to post that there was some controversy that remains to be fully elucidated on the priority of invention. It seems that this keeps getting confused as my making a definite statement about the priority of invention. Prior art of similar art and claims to that effect are interesting and it seems like there should be somewhere people could be directed or be made aware of it. Maybe this is not what Wikipedia is for but I have found a lot of pages with such so I thought it was. Maybe they are all just waiting to be pared back to this stricter standard. Too bad. Even notions that have been refuted have an interesting place in the history of subject. This seems not to be the case here. Given the cult status of this product and the media and legal power of large corporations to shape public opinion, there should be some way to entice interest and draw out people with photos, products or memories that might support his contention further (assuming it is true). If his claim is false then once sufficient public exposure to this notion has been around for a while, it would cast further doubt upon it. Back to the other approach. Given his other successes, maybe an Alan Amron page would be worth creating. Mention could be made there. Cechafin (talk) 18:00, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

This article's title is ridiculous!

Wiki is not in the business of advertising and should not have a brand name in the title or images of brand name products. Even if the product is known by that name such as a Zamboni machine the Wiki article is ALWAYS the generic name Ice resurfacer. Change this immediately

66.116.62.178 (talk) 20:09, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Is there any policy actually saying this? I thought Wikipedia always just went with the WP:COMMONNAME. --McGeddon (talk) 20:29, 23 February 2014 (UTC)