Talk:Twinking

What is the etymology of the term Twinking? 218.214.18.41 02:23, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The common wisdom is that it comes from the famous 'Twinkie Defense' but the term is old enough that, as far as I know, no one really remembers where it really came from. Ehheh 17:31, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I always thought it was because the superior quality items and enchantments usually have improved graphics, and hence "twinkle". This is true at least in WoW and FF XI. BTW, I'm going to remove the POV statement in the first line of the article that it "compromises" the game somehow, and move it to a criticisms section. --DDG 15:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The term originated in text gaming (MUDS) well before WoW or Everquest were released. I'm certain it had nothing to do with graphics. Ehheh 15:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Since major etymology sources/researchers don't consider rather trivial things like RPG terminology, it's hard to say. Twink (as in the more known gay slang term) has been around since at least 1963 it seems, which predates MMO gaming by a decade. As for myself? I've honestly NEVER heard the term until World of Warcraft, and I've played a good deal of online roleplaying games before that. Even then, I never heard the term until a little more than a year ago. This is no place for original research, but I'd guess whoever coined the term did it by mistake and was probably thinking of a more proper word, like tweaking. 67.11.140.20 18:41, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Having played MUDS a long time ago, I can verify that the term at least was used then. On another note, I altered the sentence about twink guilds in World of Warcraft - there are exclusively twink vs. twink guilds, but it's hardly the standard practice, and certainly not the standard position of the 'twink community' in WoW. Myrkabah 07:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I first heard the term used in Everquest, and that its meaning comes directly from the gay slang. That seems very likely since the meanings are so close -- older gay men showering younger gay men (twinks) with gifts. John Bolton 19:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

That'll need a citation to go into the article. Ehheh 19:51, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I also first heard the term in EverQuest, but the word's origin had a slightly different meaning. A higher level character would give money or new items to a lower level character. While graphically the money or new items may not twinkle, in popular culture someone who is rich adorns themselves or others with new things that are often portrayed as sparkling, shiny or twinkling, such as a "shiny new car" or a "twinkling diamond necklace". So, if a player receives these new items or wealth which they normally could not obtain without help, they are called a Twink: which is a negative connotation for someone who receives wealth beyond their means. --SwitchLink 20:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The term was always thrown around when I first had started playing Everquest in 1999, but it was often used to describe the bronze plate clad individuals at level 20. We had naturally presumed it was because of the color of the armor and how it allowed these low level characters to presume to be a higher level then they were as only very high level characters could wear plate armor. Reading a few of these posts makes me wonder as the "showering of gifts" definitely has merit. Crayoneater 07:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

From "The New Hacker's Dictionary", 2nd ed. 1993. John Bolton 01:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

/twink/ [UCSC] n. Equivalent to read-only user. Also reported on the USENET group soc.motss; may derive from gay slang for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs (compare mainstream `chick').

I ne'er heard the "gay slang" meaning of it before today, but my understanding from back when I was playing EverQuest was that "twink" derived from "tweak" as in to tweak something to get the maximum possible efficiency out of it? 206.255.127.192 10:47, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I can confirm this term was in common use to describe RPG players when I was a freshman at MIT in 1992. As I first heard it, it referred to a particular group of old guys (pudgy, bearded, sys-admin types) who played D&D in a classroom in bldg 66. It came from the common opinion that all they did was sit around and eat twinkies, hence the pudginess and junk food wrappers left after a gaming session. It was also more broadly used to refer to anyone in the Assassin's Guild, an MIT LARP group. I don't know that the term originated at MIT, but it's possible. Jmi11s 22:50, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge

Who suggested the merge from godmodding into twinking? As I understand it, Godmodding is an exploit of some kind. Twinking (at least in MMORPGs) is not an exploit, but a mechanism enabled by the game itself. I fail to see the need to merge, from an MMORPG sense. Maybe tabletops are different. --DDG 17:23, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

On something like a MUSH, Twink is a catch-all term for any kind of a cheater or undesireable player. Someone who powerposes or 'godmods' often would be commonly called a twink. Ehheh 15:01, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Godmodding applies only to message-board RPGs. In mbRPGs (for lack of better term), there is no method of controlling how powerful any individual character can be. For example, a brand-new player can literally start out as an emperor. In mbRPGs, capabilities are only partially the result of claiming them, and also partly given by the majority's consent. mbRPGing is like writing a fan-fic with multiple other people. It has to fit together, or it results in bickering. For example, no one would want to read a book in which the United States is fighting World War II, and suddenly they have a Death Star at their disposal. Likewise, no one would want to participate in an mbRPG in which anyone can just say that they have super mega powers and have it be so.--NME 09:17, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

After reading Godmodding, I don't think that term is interchangable with Twink. A Twink is someone who obtains gifts of money or items from a higher level character or player that is within structured game mechanics. Whereas Godmodding means to bestow unrealistic or out of context power, abilities or events upon yourself or others within subjective game mechanics. While similar in function, they have two completely separate realms of context. --SwitchLink 21:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I removed the merge template. The two terms are not related, and there has been no real support for the merge (or even a reason posted in the first place). --163.1.165.116 21:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd rewrite the last paragraph regarding twink guilds in WoW. Twink guilds exist as currently, there is no matching system in the game. This allows a twink guild to create an entirely premade side vs a normal geared side. Many twink guilds will actually not play against other twink guilds because they wuld not be able to destroy the other side in such games.

I might make a whole etymology section. AFAIK, the term twink came from the term "tweaking", which was an online variation of "min-maxer", which itself was a PnP term for a character that exploited the rules to the fullest to make the most powerful(overpowered) character.66.190.29.150 (talk) 10:10, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Non Electronic Gaming

I've always seen Twink as Synonymous with Munchkin. Mathiastck 14:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

POV line

I removed the line reading "Contrary to popular belief, twinking is a form of cheating." This is pure POV. The line itself says that some people do not think it's cheating. Zurqoxn 06:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

On that note, I removed the paragraph about PvP and twinking. Methinks someone was bitter when adding that. Djseifer 10:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

You might want to look over the section again, someone is STILL bitter about twinking apparently. I don't even play MMO's and I can tell when someone is being rash. There is a line that I noticed. It goes along the lines of "Twinking is used by players in stay at the top of a level bracket in PvP, which is often due to a lack of PvP skill." That's POV.71.238.205.137 (talk) 11:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks like 24.176.28.106 really doesn't like twinks in PvP. I've reverted the page. (S)He appears to have been given a final warning over a month ago, but has still been editing the post with similar - almost identical - POV info. Leaving a warning on their user page is probably redundant. Should we see about just getting the IP blocked? CaptF (talk) 00:07, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Reverted the change where someone keeps putting in "balancing flaw" to "design flaw" because the being balanced is a matter of opinion (POV) where the game developers stated themselves that its a design flaw.

POV edits

It appears that this page is the victim of constant editing by twinks, posting their bias opinions which constitute POV. Can we try to get their IPs banned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattelot (talk • contribs) 14:02, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I see the other users involved removing bias, not adding it. - Ehheh (talk) 17:18, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I've added and changed the page with proven facts and information. I've noticed you've removed things yourself, Ehheh, please review the terms of service in regards to POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.227.231.91 (talk) 19:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

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IPs have been blocked from editing since March 14. There's a big sign at the top of the article saying IP users can't edit. Here's what keeps being changed:

A Twink is somebody who finds and takes advantage of a design flaw (whether it be in statistic, social features, skills etc.) to make a character that will be more powerful than a character made by one unaware, unwilling, or unable to exploit such flaws. A character made in this fashion is considered "twinked", or sometimes referred to as "twinked out".

to -->

A Twink is somebody who, within the confines and restrictions that a game provides, finds and takes advantage of a balancing flaw (whether it be in statistic, social features, skills etc.) to make a character that will be more powerful than a character made by one unaware, unwilling, or unable to exploit such flaws. A character made in this fashion is considered "twinked", or sometimes referred to as "twinked out".

I agree that "balancing flaw" is a better way to put it than "design flaw".

An example of positive twinking is when a player equips themself with higher-end gear in order to avoid the "newbie" hump.
An example of negative twinking is when a player equips themself with all the best possible gear for that level range and fills them up with end-game enchantments in order to easily kill newer players. This is typically done by the majority of twinks as a compensation for a lack of real PVP skill.
Twinking in World of Warcraft was subject to a long and brutal "cold war" between twinks and anti-twinks. The was an online debate as to the morality of twinking in WoW.
The cold war began towards the beginning of 2004 when theories as to why twinking is done were presented. With intense rage, twinks attempted to defend their position but ultimately failed when the war ended towards the end of 2007 with the triumph of anti-twinks. There are still heated debates on a common basis, however, they're merely grievances.
to -->
One example of twinking is when a player equips themself with higher-end gear in order to avoid the "newbie" hump. Another, more controversial example of twinking is when a player equips themself with all the best possible gear for his level range and fills them up with end-game enchantments in order to easily kill newer players.

All that's been done here is remove unsourced material (WoW twinking cold war), which, in my opinion, does not add to the article as WoW is already mentioned elsewhere in the article; and merge the paragraphs on positive and negative twinking, and avoid calling them as such. I think these edits are very good, though I think this might help: removing "more controversial" to avoid POV.

Some editors have already violated 3RR today. Stop this stupid edit war! --Eruhildo (talk) 21:08, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Eruhildo, for starters, it was even stated by Blizzard that it was a design flaw that they cannot fix. Changing things to your personal view constitutes POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattelot (talk • contribs) 08:36, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Sounds more like you're saying I'm changing facts, not not putting in POV. And who said anything about Blizzard? This article is about twinking in any game, not just WoW. Sometimes players can twink because of a design flaw, and sometimes the game just allows it. Either way, it can occur because the game is not balanced. If you want to put in the article that twinking can occur in WoW because of a design flaw, then go ahead. Put it in the paragraph on WoW and include a reference. --Eruhildo (talk) 01:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

That still doesn't change the fact that you're reverting proven facts about WoW twinking in the article itself. The things you changed them to constitute POV, please be aware. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.227.231.91 (talk) 09:11, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Changed "balancing flaw" to "design flaw" because something being balanced is a matter of personal view (POV) while design flaw was stated by the game designers themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.227.231.91 (talk) 12:16, 21 March 2008 (UTC)