[go: nahoru, domu]
Jump to content

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Final Fantasy/Archive/16

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive
Archives
Shortcut

Issues

I've written the article about Fat Chocobo. Now all that I need is more info about Chubby Chocobo in Chocobo Racing and the Japanese text. --Frid 10:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image summaries and licensing

Images without proper summaries and fair-use rationale are easy grounds by which to refuse an article FA status, and can also be grounds for the deletion of the images. Thought I'd remind everybody and hopefully save us all some headaches. Ryu Kaze 17:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

FFX on the front page

I'd appreciate it if you could help with that, Tyler. I requested July 19 (the fifth anniversary of the game's release), and that date is fast-approaching. Since there hasn't been a response yet, I was getting a little anxious. Ryu Kaze 14:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot. ^__^ Ryu Kaze 03:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks :) — Deckiller 03:45, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Looks nifty, good sirs. Crazyswordsman 01:19, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Attention FFXI players!

List of Final Fantasy XI characters needs your help! There's a couple of places that have way, way, way too much information (Prince Trion is a good example). I do not play FFXI anymore and quit shortly before the release of the last expansion, so I'm not a good person to try to cut this text down to the relevant bits. If you still play and/or are familiar with some of these characters, please take a look if you have a chance and try editing some things down. Also, be aware that I cut out a huge amount of copyvio'd text copied from Playonline.com and be on the lookout for any more infractions. Thanks! -RaCha'ar 15:08, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Request: more details for FF7

Request: Please write a detail account of the story of Final_Fantasy_VII#Story. I think it is too short. I highly prefer a detail account of the story like the one in Final_Fantasy_VI#Story.

Major issues

I just noticed we are WAY behind on our cruft merging. — Deckiller 21:04, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
On the subject of cruft-merging, any chance we can also get a consensus on what to do with the character class articles? Merge them certainly, but leave them in list format or prosify? As soon as there's consensus on that I'm more than ready to start cleaning out the individual class articles that aren't notable enough for their own article. -RaCha'ar 21:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really mind, as long as gameguide info is out and the info is compressed. Games like Final Fantasy tactics make their living on classes (so perhaps the two tactics games should get their own article?). We really only need one article describing the classes with a "real world" perspective (although that can be tough with video game articles). — Deckiller 21:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy Haeresis XIII

I've gone ahead and merged it. ~ Hibana 22:00, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Page renames

Honestly, that sounds acceptable to me. The more I think on it, the more I agree that using "Final Fantasy" as a adjective is a little goofy-sounding. – – Sean Daugherty (talk) 16:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Awesome. It'd be great if RaCha'ar or Hibana could comment on this. A pet peeve of mine is that in articles like Final Fantasy magic, the main point of the article (magic) is neither capitalized nor is it the first word in the title. Axem Titanium 22:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm still not a big fan of "List of stuff in the Final Fantasy series" as a format, but I guess saying "blah blah in Final Fantasy" instead of "Final Fantasy blah blah" wouldn't be too horrible. There's just SO many links to change that it makes my head hurt just thinking about it. I still prefer things the way they were, but I can see the logic of the change. -RaCha'ar 17:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm against renaming. "Magic" is such vast subject and applies to so many articles that we run the risk of putting a needle in a haystack, unneccesarily. We all know the "drinking from a firehose" feel of getting a search page with thousands of articles weakly related to what you are looking for. Magic fans will be annoyed to find games they never heard about in the midst of the stuff they want to read. The only readers interested in "the magic of Final Fantasy are readers familiar with the game and they will find all Final Fantasy related articles easily using our current naming convention. Let's face it: Final Fantasy "magic" is NOT Magic and should not be lumped with it. Renmiri 14:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't think making the article title Magic in Final Fantasy would lump it with "magic" any more than Final Fantasy magic would. Also, a search for "magic" on wikipedia yields 26915, which is a hefty amount, with or without one extra article documenting an important aspect of Final Fantasy. In that same search, seven out of the first eleven results documented radio stations, rather than any esoteric phenomena. In fact, I didn't see anything remotely related to magic in video games until Blue Magic on the 3rd page, roughly the 45th result. At any rate, "magic aficionados" will have trouble enough finding what they're looking for, whether or not this article is there. On the other hand, "Magic in Final Fantasy" would not only avoid using "Final Fantasy" as an adjective, it would clarify it as a concept in "Final Fantasy", rather looking like a loose collection of mildly related words (which would certainly be the case to a layperson). Actually, "Final Fantasy magic" is probably more likely to be confused as an article on magic than "Magic in Final Fantasy" because people would believe "Final Fantasy" to be a brand of magic, assuming they had no idea what "Final Fantasy" was. Axem Titanium 05:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Really, I have to agree that it would be better for those list pages to use something like "Magic in Final Fantasy" or "Weapons in Final Fantasy" as their titles. It will mean a lot of links to be fixed, though, sadly. Ryu Kaze 20:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That does seem to be a problem. Isn't there a bot that fixes redirects or something? Axem Titanium 20:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If this is the agreement, we should probably make a list of all articles that are going to need renames and a very careful eye at their related "what links here" pages, and have project members bid to take on each of the articles, to make sure they're all taken care of. We're going to need a group of people for this; it's a huge project for one or two people. Again, I'll volunteer to help, but I don't have the time to take care of more than one or two articles. Merging the character classes was a huge headache in terms of changing wikilinks and I can't imagine how much worse this will be. -RaCha'ar 20:53, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, for starters, the stuff at the bottom of Template:Final Fantasy series. I'll compile a complete list as soon as I can. Axem Titanium 02:13, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The following is a list of possible articles that may need to be renamed per above. I'd be happy to shoulder as much work as needed to get it done. Axem Titanium 16:16, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are we only doing the changes for articles that apply to the overall series, not for individual games? For example, Final Fantasy XI character classes > List of character classes in Final Fantasy XI? -RaCha'ar 17:43, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I actually don't have an opinion on this. We could if we want to and it would give a sense of uniformity of style though. Axem Titanium 18:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely go for uniformity. There's not quite as many lists as I had thought, but it would still be a pain in the ass to fix all those broken links. As long as a group effort is made, though, it wouldn't be that bad. I've fixed redirects on occasions like this about three or four times since I started working on this WikiProject, and it would be horrible for one or two people to fix all of these. Anyway, if it's agreed upon that we do this, I volunteer to help fix two or three of them. Ryu Kaze 19:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Character class merges ahoy!

Okay. All classes except those mentioned above have been merged and redirected, and I think/hope I've caught all the wikilinks to the previous articles for character classes and pointed them in the right direction. If I've missed any please feel free to fix them or point them out to me. -RaCha'ar 20:01, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy VI and Final Fantasy VIII have both joined the ranks of other featured articles generated from this project. Congradulations to all the editors who put time into those articles to make them what they are now. --ZeWrestler Talk 17:18, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's absolutely incredible. Big, huge congratulations to all involved! -RaCha'ar 17:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A big thanks to everyone involved. I will make sure to give everyone who helped a barnstar. Sir Crazyswordsman 19:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Woohooo!!! Congratulations CSM, Deck, Ryu and all the editors that pitched in to help!!! Renmiri 03:08, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the congrats. ^^ Ryu Kaze 18:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good Articles

I added in Aerith and Cloud, not sure when they hit GA status, but they are now! --PresN 20:46, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ryu did some of the major work there. Although much of the push was helped by anons and new editors, believe it or not. Sir Crazyswordsman 20:54, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I totally didn't check the "Media" section of the GA list last time, so now there's Jenova, Sephiroth, Tidus, and Yuna in the list! --PresN 18:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hopefully we can get the rest of the main characters up there as well. Squall Leonheart and Terra Branford are close, and I'm planning on having Terra Branford peer reviewed. Sir Crazyswordsman 01:43, 4 August 2006

(UTC)

Final Fantasy Magic looks like a promising article to attempt to bring up to GA status. What do you guys think?--ZeWrestler Talk 14:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest hit GA today! it's updated both here and at CVG --PresN 15:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well done. Congrats. Ryu Kaze 16:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And Squall hits GA! I updated it at CVG, but Deckiller got it here first. I like seeing that list get longer :) --PresN 16:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To Do list

has anyone else noticed our todo list has thinned greatly. Maybe it is time we give it a mass update? --ZeWrestler Talk 14:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We have so many GAs and FAs that not many people gave it much thought. We're just doing stuff as we go along, methinks. Eventually it all gets positive results. Sir Crazyswordsman 15:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If one of them is perchance to merge the different Final Fantasy Tactics Advance character class articles into one article, I have just about finished the article in my sandbox, so you can hold off on that until it's done. If not, well... the article is almost done! Yay! -RaCha'ar 04:53, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Cool! I was talking about merging the battle systems into one article, "Battle systems in Final Fantasy". I'm thinking about calling it "Square Enix battle systems". — Deckiller 04:55, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Awesome and past due, if previous conversation on the character classes page is any indication. Good call. -RaCha'ar 04:58, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Changes to a bunch of articles

User:Druff has gone through and removed the nihongo Japanese transliteration of all of the numbers of the FF games with the comment "There is absolutely no need to convert roman numerals to phonetics." See a sample diff here. I assume there's a reason they were all like that in the first place, but without knowing for a fact myself, figured I'd bring it here so someone who does know can correct it or acknowledge that it's already corrected in the first place. -RaCha'ar 17:25, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Meh... Changes like this must be discussed here. Just yesterday I was telling someone to check Wikipedia for phonetics and Japanese naming for Yaibal and Youcum. We need that in the articles. It's not gamecruft, doesn't help in the game, it is language and culture, it belongs here. Reverting Renmiri 19:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly the phonetic renderings of katakana spellings (such as ファイナルファンタジー) have their place in an encyclopedic context. However, there's no need for that umbrella to cover roman numerals. When katakana, hiragana, kanji etc. are presented, it makes sense to include their pronunciation. But there's no need to inform the reader on how to pronounce roman numberals. Information on how Japanese speakers pronounce "ファイナルファンタジー" is useful information. Information on how they pronounce roman numerals is irrelevant. Druff 01:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I can see either argument, but since they pronounce the roman numerals from Final Fantasy titles while trying to imitate English phonetics (like the "Final Fantasy" part itself), I think it's relevant. If they pronounced the roman numerals the same way they pronounce their numbers normally, it probably wouldn't be as valuable to provide a romaji representation. Ryu Kaze 13:08, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, if they were pronouncing the roman numerals as Japanese numbers, then it would make sense to provide their Japanese translation. But since they're essentially trying to pronounce them as they would be in English, providing the pronunciation comes off as circular, unnecessary, and crufty. Druff 16:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But would people be able to tell that they were pronounced in the Engrishy way just by looking at the katakana? Chances are that they won't and even if they could, it wouldn't hurt the article to have one extra word inside the nihongo template. Besides, Final Fantasy (ファイナルファンタジー, Fainaru Fantajī) is just as Engrishy as any of those Roman numeral pronunciations and we're not removing them, are we? Axem Titanium 16:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I just explained as clearly as I could why I think the katakana pronunciations should not be removed, but the roman numeral pronunciations should. It's as though you completely ignored what I said. It has nothing to do with "Engrish". It has to do with relevant, encyclopedic content. However, it's clear that I'm outnumbered by this little clique who has seen fit to become a group of Wiki enforcers, so I'll just drop this and let the cruft build up. Druff 17:35, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please be civil. There was really no call for that. -RaCha'ar 17:39, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but there's a difference between thirteen (十三, jūsan) and thirteen (XIII, sātīn). Axem Titanium 18:39, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That's precisely my point. I support providing the translation and transliteration of 十三, because it's Japanese. XIII is not Japanese, and so I see no need for translation or transliteration, just as the publisher in Japan apparently doesn't see the need either. Druff 19:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But people would think, "Oh. It's a Japanese game so they must pronounce it in Japanese," but then they'd be wrong because the Japanese people pronounce it in English and wikipedia wouldn't be able to inform them of that. And besides, it's still only a few extra letters. It's not like some giant avalanche of cruft is going to appear just because we include that (it hasn't yet and it's been this way for a while). Axem Titanium 21:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Axem came close to emphasising the point I was trying to: since they aren't pronouncing them the way the Japanese normally would pronounce those numbers, it's more valuable to point out how they actually are pronouncing them. Normally one would expect Japanese people to pronounce something the Japanese way. If, however, they aren't, then such an assumption would prove misleading. Really, I think we should use the romaji representation in all cases. I think it's most valuable in the cases where they're using non-Japanese pronunciation (as you could normally expect Japanese people to pronounce things in Japanese), but I think it serves a relevant purpose of clarity in every case. Ryu Kaze 16:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed! Good point Axem! Renmiri 18:08, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy (video game)

An editor just added quite a bit of information — it needs some compressing and a copyedit. — Deckiller 04:58, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Blitzball

File:Bevbells.jpg

Found the following team logos on my Ultimania Omega: Bevelle Bells and Yocun Nomads (pic below). Shall I add them to the sectio that lists "other teams" such as the Zanarkand Duggles ? Renmiri 06:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Probably should just for comprehensiveness' sake. Ryu Kaze 12:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh we definitely need these images. Sir Crazyswordsman 01:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Added it to FF Wiki too, of course! Renmiri 19:57, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You're good at this, Ren. I only wish Amano art was easier to comeby. Thankfully Amano released a book of his FF art for the first ten games. Sir Crazyswordsman 01:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy VII and timeline

Final Fantasy VII timeline and Final Fantasy VII terms need to be merged into one general article. I added tags. — Deckiller 23:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What disturbs me is why we have a timeline for FFVII and not Chrono Trigger. CT is clearly the game that revolves around timelines. Sir Crazyswordsman 01:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If I were to say which game had greater need of a timeline, I'd say it's Final Fantasy VII, as Chrono Trigger is extremely straightforward while the other is often convoluted beyond belief for some. However, I don't see the necessity for either game to have a timeline here. This is purely fancruft, and some of it's inaccurate anyway. Ryu Kaze 11:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
CT straightforward? Timelines are a central theme in Chrono Trigger, and there is much more controversey in CT than in FFVII. CT needs a timeline due to the sheer nature of the game. Sir Crazyswordsman 01:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
With Final Fantasy VII, many events were intentionally left to have occurred at unspecified points, often with conflicting hints as to when these events may have taken place. Even with the release of an Ultimania for VII, it's still got several things with regard to order of events that are unclear. This is not to say that Chrono's backstory is crystal clear, but one can fairly easily set down an order of "This happened in this year, this happened in this year, this happened in this year, etc.".
I think the emphasis here needs to be on the wording: "timeline" rather "timelines". There's plenty of questions that need to be asked about the Chrono series due to timelines, of course (one of the more obvious of many being how the hell Marle's family got Schala's pendant in the first place, especially if Schala gave it to Kid), but with VII such simple questions as "When was Sephiroth even born?" can't be answered because of the ambiguity imposed by the developers. Not to mention all the retcons brought on by the Compilation. Ryu Kaze 03:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps the two articles that Deckiller suggested for merging can be culminated into an article similar to Crazyswordsman's Terminology of Final Fantasy VI or Ryu's comprehensive Spira article. ~ Hibana 17:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Preferably Story of Final Fantasy VII to maintain an out of universe perspective (that's why I disliked the rename to Spira, since it sugests that it exists in this universe). — Deckiller 17:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If there is such an article, it absolutely must avoid such listing as this, and only have verifiable information. I can provide you with verifiability for a lot of things rather easily, but something like this would be a stability nightmare, constantly loaded with fancruft, even in the face of verifiabile information from SE, and is probably not worth the effort. Ryu Kaze 03:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And that's the reason why FF7 will be the only main FF that isn't promoted to featured article status :) — Deckiller 03:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
More than likely. Ryu Kaze 14:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Secondary sources

Tristam and I recently touched on the importance of secondary sources within computer and video game articles due to a lack of them being a reason the Final Fantasy IV article is not FACable. Donkey Kong (arcade game), for instance, is featured article with several written (book) sources. According to Wikipedia:Reliable sources#Some definitions, primary sources, such as dialogue from the game's themselves or official guidebooks or magazines, should not be solely relied on for references, but authorative printed material such as books on computer and video gaming and even doctoral theses (scholarly presses) should be used. Websites are also used extensively (see Wikipedia:Reliable sources#Using online and self-published sources).

The problem is that these printed sources are very difficult to come across. I know we've managed a few featured articles in the past few months without such citing, but I'm wondering if anyone has librarian-like skills in digging up secondary printed resources in case we run into this type of problem in the future. I know we have this thesis as an external link in Final Fantasy X (props to whomever discovered it), and I'd feel comfortable knowing we have similar material available out there. ~ Hibana 00:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gee, thanks and the thesis is quite an interesting read too! Renmiri 01:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Secondary sources are easier to come by on older games — like Donkey Kong and FFIV. If people start pestering for book secondary sources, I'll ask them to find them for themselves, since I have NONE around here :) — Deckiller 00:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Another problem is that there are pratically none (I've never seen a book on final fantasy). If people dare to delist our hard work because of circumstances beyond our control, I may even be compelled to leave and hone my talents elsewhere. — Deckiller 00:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. As much as I would like to see FFIV featured (it WAS my first after all), it's going to be a real challenge. There's no Ultimania on it and Square's too lazy to make one now. If I were a philosophy major, I probably would write a "Final Fantasy and Philosophy" novel. And either Cecil or Terra would be on the cover to make sure people know I'm covering the whole series and not just the Nomura games. It's like an FFVI fan at CoN once said: "Comparing FFVI to FFVII is like comparing a five star restaurant to a McDonalds. The five star is better, but everyone eats at the McDonalds." Sir Crazyswordsman 01:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That can also be applied to FF8 and FF7, FF10 and FF7, Xenosaga and FF7, and Xenogears and FF7. — Deckiller 02:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I can't even find that much information VII to be honest. You'd think someone would at least write about it's impact on the gaming community. All Amazon.com has on Final Fantasy games are strategy guides, sheet music, and a few multimedia articles (who knows what they're about). Although there was one book (The Video Game Theory Reader) that compares game theory to film theory and has about ten pages of material on Final Fantasy IX. ~ Hibana 02:36, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've quite a bit of info on VII, actually. Little (read: maybe one) are scholarly theses, but I do have several magazine articles, official books, and web articles like this (this one might have been written for scholastic purposes; I can't really tell with how it's explained at the bottom, but given where it's listed and the context, I think so) and this (you guys will probably recognize this one as being a reference for the VIII and X articles). In any event, I'd think SE to be a rather reliable publisher — an exception for using primary sources — particularly where knowledge of what they created themselves is concerned. It's certainly as reliable as Enterbrain or Future Publishing taking the same information, rewording it, and then sticking it in their own publications. After all, where would another publisher be getting the information from? Ryu Kaze 03:22, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps we can kidnap and interrogate Hironobu Sakaguchi to get new information, and call it a "quaternary source" rather than original research. ~ Hibana 03:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That wouldn't work beyond V. Hinorobu didn't have much of a part in the series starting with VI. Sir Crazyswordsman 00:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Google gave me also this guy an "Independent Game Scholar" when I searched for the book... Maybe his site is worth browsing for more stuff Renmiri 01:22, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've had [this book for a while but I haven't had a chance to read it. Looking up Final Fantasy in the index, I found a few pages, predominantly about Final Fantasy VII and The Spirits Within (which makes sense because it was published around that time). I'll see if there are any useful excerpts from it. Axem Titanium 02:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've decided I might try to push VII to FA, so anybody who wants to see it happen, find whatever you can. This is going to be one hell of a nightmare. Ryu Kaze 13:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Aaack!!! It' like asking for punishment ;) Sorry, can't help much on this one but I DO have the game so I can get some screenshots if needed. Renmiri 17:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So far, the Development section might be done. Yes, one section done. Ryu Kaze 18:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I submitted Terra's article for Peer Review

I need your help in editing the prose and finding some reliable, secondary sources for the character design section. All I have is the Amano interview I cited. Sir Crazyswordsman 15:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The peer review for Terra Branford can be found here. ~ Hibana 20:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There's a little battle going on. The Trivia and abilities section is incredibly popular among novice editors and I can't seem to convince them that they need reworking. Sir Crazyswordsman 18:12, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy X-2 is now a featured article! Way to go, everyone! ~ Hibana 02:28, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yay, yet another one down :) I've been talking to Ryu about spliting up for VII and IX, and then cross-examining the articles in a week or so. — Deckiller 02:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, congrats! Axem Titanium 02:44, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the congrats. Ryu Kaze 13:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You guys are machines. Congratulations! -RaCha'ar 16:20, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nice. What's next? Deck said he's interested in IV, so I'll go check the situation out over there. Sir Crazyswordsman 01:23, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ryu and Deckiller have split up to work on Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy IX respectively, as I thought. I am trying to get Final Fantasy V to Good Article status. It would be great if someone could tackle IV as well. ~ Hibana 01:25, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'll help you and Deck out if I can. I could use a copy of FFV's script, though I doubt I could find it. Sir Crazyswordsman 21:26, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Congrats on FFX-2's featuring. I'm not a fan of the FF series myself, but I was looking at the FFX-related articles (I do have a passing interest in FFX/X-2), and the GAs for it (the ones on Tidus, Yuna, Spira, Spira locations) are VERY, VERY close to FA status IMHO. I think you guys should make a push to finish these off and get them to FA status. --Kitch 01:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy Adventure Peer Review

Since Final Fantasy Adventure is officially under the WPFF umbrella, anyone who wants to help out at the article's Peer Review can do so here. Thanks. ~ Hibana 04:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy character classes

I'd like to have some more discussion about the current state of this page (see Talk:Final Fantasy character classes#Too many slashes.). We need to come up with cleaner headings for each class, since right now the format for too many of them is "Something/something/yet another thing" and it looks very sloppy. Some help to reach a consensus on what exactly to call each heading would be great. Thanks everyone! -RaCha'ar 16:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If I may throw in my two cents...
For Dragon Knight/Dragoon/Lancer... Dragon Knight. The main article is called Dragon Knight, so should this.
Engineer/Machinist... Engineer. I prefer Machinist, but Engineer has been used more often.
Geomancer/Elementalist... I'd say Geomancer.
Paladin/Holy Knight... Pally. Used more, and a more notable class name.
Magic Knight/Sorceror... Magic Knight. Sorceror sounds way too much like a magical class, while Magic Knight is aptly named.
Bard/Dancer... while both are fairly common classes, Bard came first, and is in more games. So, Bard.
Chemist/Alchemist... They're about even in usage... I'd say Chemist, it came first.
Warrior/Fight/Knight... Warriors/Fighters and Knights are really becoming two different classes, but I suppose not enough to be split... I'd say Warrior, I guess.
Beast Master/Trainer/Tamer/Mediator... hmm... now this one is tougher. I hate to admit it, but I don't know. Frankly, I'd like to see what FFVa names it.
Hunter/Archer/Ranger/Sniper... arg... well, not Sniper. Ugh, all these classes have been used equally... again, I'd like to see what FFIII DS and FFVa name it.

Anyways, regardless, the 'alternate' names should still remain in the class section (for the most part, that's the case right now, anyways), just not in the heading. 74.104.1.49 13:18, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pushing Final Fantasy VII to FAC

I thought I'd update to let you all know that I've finished fixing up the Development, Audio and Reception sections. The Compilation section still needs to be turned into prose, and the Gameplay and Plot sections still need a lot of work, but all the research stuff is finished now. Hopefully I can finish tomorrow. Ryu Kaze 03:06, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I was wrong when I said all the research was done. Taking care of the Compilation section required more than thirty new references, but it's done now. All that's left are the Gameplay and Plot sections. Which, I guess, is technically about half of the article, but it's the easier half. Usually. Ryu Kaze 19:15, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Work's coming along pretty well over there. I still have to take care of the Story and Gameplay sections (yes, just Story; the other two parts of "Plot" are taken care of), but that's it. Everything else should hopefully be done. I'm a little concerned about the article's length, though. At the moment, it's 78kb, and it's definitely going to top top 80kb before all is said and done. I certainly feel that everything here is relevant and should be here, but those unfamiliar with the context may not. Ryu Kaze 02:04, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely a little concerned about length now. The page is almost to 100kb. That said, though, the Setting, Characters, Development, Audio, Reception and Compilation sections should pretty much be done. They'll need a copyedit, of course, to fix whatever wording issues I missed, but they should be pretty good.
The Story section, however, while now up to the level of comprehensiveness it needs to be, is pretty poor on prose. I wrote it rather rapidly, just trying to get all of the relevant information out. While it's just about finished in terms of content, it's going to take a little while to tighten up the wording. I'll try giving it a pass or two to straighten that out after the content is up to standard, but it's going to need some work I'm sure. Ryu Kaze 14:34, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I just want to say that Final Fantasy VII's story is a pain in the ass. It has too many subplots, and since we have to touch on all the major ones, that means more than 10 characters getting their roles summarized. As it stands, I've still left a lot out, but goddamn. Well, the price of comprehensiveness has been paid, I've tried to condense things, enhance the prose and now I just need to add some images. After that, the Gameplay section and lead will be all that's left. Ryu Kaze 21:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, Final Fantasy VII's poor storyline attempts to keep itself afloat by adding needless, pointless, and childish subplots. I hate FF7's story :) — Deckiller 21:14, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That's a little harsh. XD I actually like the core plot to the game a lot, and personally like Cid and Red XIII's stories a lot, but a lot of it feels tacked on. The core plot was great in my opinion, but I think they realized that there wasn't enough there to make the game be as long as they had wanted it to. Ryu Kaze 23:45, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'd go on a whole anti-FFVII rant now, but this isn't the place to do it. Feel free to discuss it at the FF Wiki on Wikicities' forums or at Caves of Narshe. Sir Crazyswordsman 02:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm finished. The entire article has been revised. Check it out. Just short of 100kb too (98 at last count). It's a little long, but it has a lot to cover. Now, I need some expert copyeditors to get in there and check the wording. Hmm. *looks around the room* Ryu Kaze 04:41, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

FFVII is up for FAC!! --PresN 18:29, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy V's progress

I've begun working on Final Fantasy V but fear I can't go it alone the entire way. The Plot section needs extensive work, and, as Deckiller pointed out, the character section may need to be combined with it. A Setting subsection may not be necessary either. The problem is, as I've told some of you, I'm not good at prose. If anyone can help out with the story, it would be greatly appreciated. This is the RPGe translation of the game's script, but it might be more useful to use the Anthology version if you can find it. The names of characters and places must be consistent with the List of Final Fantasy V characters and List of Final Fantasy V locations. As of now, that means using Square's Anthology version of the translation, at least until the GBA version is released in November. Please contact me or leave a message on the game's talk page. Thanks. ~ Hibana 03:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I've pretty much extrapolated as much information as I can from sources I've found myself and a few references from other articles; sadly, there isn't very much. I guess the game can be considered to be too obscure for anything one could call "interesting," other than the planned Windows port. I keep finding unsourced rumors that Nobuo Uematsu once stated that it was his favorite game prior to Final Fantasy IX, as well as his favorite score to compose; there's also a tidbit on that Yoshitaka Amano interview, where he states Tina (Terra) is favorite character, and that he really likes Faris as well: neither of these are worth mentioning, though. The article is 30 kilobytes at present, and the Story/Characters info has yet to be revised - I neither have time to play through the game nor read any scripts/story summaries to write from. Unless the article is extremely well written, I doubt it will ever be FA material. I know it will be bombared with edits once the GBA version drops in Obtober and November, just like Final Fantasy IV was, but it will most likely not be useful. Anyway, I'll be satisfied once it reaches GA. I'll be out of town for the next few days, and may not be able to edit where I am. Keep an eye on 'er, please. Thanks again. ~ Hibana 23:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)~[reply]

We're all going our separate ways, huh?

While Ryu is doing Final Fantasy VII, Deck is doing Final Fantasy IX, and Hibana is doing Final Fantasy V, I have the difficult task of doing Final Fantasy IV. Right now, I'm in the midst of rewriting the plot. The next step will be for me to check the licenses on the images and update them as needed. Afterwards, I will have to add references. I may need some help in the near future. It seems that we're all going our separate ways now, but perhaps when we're all finished we can review each others' articles. Sir Crazyswordsman 22:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, Deck's plan was that we would copyedit one another's articles afterward. While it might seem a little sad that we're all branching off right now, on the bright side of things, the fact that our abilities have developed this much is cause for celebration. A few months ago, I wouldn't have dared attempt getting an article to FAC on my own (if I knew what was in store for me that is; I did attempt it with Final Fantasy X and would have failed had help not shown up). Hell, a week ago I wouldn't have even tried getting Final Fantasy VII there if all of us worked on it. I leveled up at some point in the past few days apparently. Ryu Kaze 23:38, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy IV FA push

I have begun rewriting the story. During the transition, you may see gaps in the story. Sir Crazyswordsman 16:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I should probably note that I'd like to see this on the front page November 23 in honor of 15 years of FFIV. So when you're done with your projects, I'd appreciate it if you guys could come over and help me out. I plan on finishing up the story tomorrow and adding references on Wednesday to it. Sir Crazyswordsman 03:53, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That story section is going to be extremely long. — Deckiller 04:12, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That it will. The problem is FFIV has such a long story. If you can edit it down to FFVI's length, feel free to do so. Sir Crazyswordsman 04:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added Final Fantasy VI (and Chrono Trigger) to the FA queue

I'm trying to see if they can be featured on their release dates. Sir Crazyswordsman 23:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. That would be great. Ryu Kaze 01:41, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Just look at the project's list of achievements! It does the heart good File:Grin.gif Renmiri 04:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That it does. Ryu Kaze 14:29, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Deletions

Just a notice, List of Final Fantasy characters is up for AfD. --PresN 16:32, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads up. Ryu Kaze 19:35, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Images and fair-use

Hey, guys. I figured I should make you all aware of the more intensive analysis of what is and isn't fair-use that's been going on lately. It's starting to get quite strict, especially in FAC, as you can see in Final Fantasy VII's FAC. To nip this thing in the bud before it becomes a problem, we need to take the initiative to go through our articles and ensure that they're meeting fair-use criteria. I've just finished going through Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy X-2, Chrono Trigger and Shadow of the Colossus — and I had to resize almost every image on those pages. I still need to check out Spira (Final Fantasy X) and List of locations in Spira (I'm protective of these pages and those FAs/FACs I mentioned), but I'm expecting to find that I'll need to resize most of those as well.

I don't want to see us losing some really good images that we might not be able to replace to fair-use deletion, or even seeing some of our hard work that's gone into achieving FA status undone because of this sort of thing. So, please, go through articles that you regularly take care of and make sure we're good on fair-use criteria. It sucks to make our awesome images smaller, but if you want a larger copy for personal enjoyment, save it and then go ahead and resize the image here on Wikipedia. We don't want to lose out on FA status over fair-use of all things. Ryu Kaze 02:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I realized this was a problem a while back, and actually resized the images. If I wasn't in such a rush to do FFIV's FA bid, I'd work with Chrono Cross as well. Sir Crazyswordsman 03:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Huh... What are the new gudelines ? Which size is appropriate ? Anything else to fix ? We have List of... characters, locations and such for every game, right ? And the caharacter pages, Blitzball... Renmiri 18:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, the "guidelines" aren't exactly... well, they've not exactly been written. That's the annoying nature of the fair-use law: it's defined about as well as the term "executive producer". But if you compare the images on Final Fantasy VII to how they were before and after objections were raised on the FAC, that should hopefully give us an idea of how to address these matters before they become fair-use issues. Sorry I can't provide you anything more specific than that, Ren. I'd really like to have a more concrete idea of it myself. Ryu Kaze 03:42, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy XI peer review

I just noticed that no one has put this up here yet. FFXI's been up for peer review for a few days now. It really needs a lot of work. I know a lot of you are spread thin over a lot of other articles, and there seems to be a few good people working on it (including myself! Finally a game I've played recently and remember enough about to work on!). However, that said, if you get a chance, please check it out. -RaCha'ar 16:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Never played it but tweaked the introduction a little, adding success story (I alawys thing why should I care for this game ? when I see no notes about the reception ont the intro) Renmiri 17:58, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Personally, I feel quite the same. Ryu Kaze 16:11, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I know a lot of people may feel burned out due to hectic and intense work on the spectacular Final Fantasy FA's that have and are currently taking place, but now, or at some point, I think this article could be very easily made FA status. It as gone from 10 to 62 references and is getting increasingly well written. Maybe at some point after this current round we could make a push for FA status. Good work everyone! :) Judgesurreal777 03:02, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Square Enix but not

This is probably a bit off-topic, but you seemed to be the best recourse on how to write SE-related articles. I wish to try my hand at Drakengard (in German), I have found many reviews and information (btw, someone with more knowledge of Japanese than me would be nice, I have a few small things I'd like to know from the sparce further material I have for the game). All these reviews give a general and well-rounded view of the game (great story and cinematic, lousy in-game graphic and gameplay), but they all are written under the same misconception. All of them (except one from IGN, I think) treat the game as if it was created by Square Enix, when Cavia created it and Square Enix only published it (as far as I see, Cavia created it upon request by SE). I don't really know how to deal with that, should I mention this misconception or should I only refer to Cavia as the developer and ignore it at every other turn? Some suggestion would be appreciated. Thank you. --Anibas 11:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That is an annoying misconception. I've seen it numerous times in arguments of "What great games SE can make" and "What awful games Square's made since merging with Enix". Anyway, have the lead to the article mention that Cavia developed it while Square Enix published it. There really shouldn't be any need to mention SE again after that, as you'll also need to mention that Take-Two Interactive was the game's PAL publisher, and since neither organization had any involvement beyond that. Ryu Kaze 13:17, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Will do. Now to writing the damnable thing, that isn't so easy as your FACs make it look like. (Take 2 Interactive was the publisher for North America, too, but Square Enix was responisble for localisation. It's a bit sad that I can only find the sales for Europe and Japan, but not for North America (was published too close to the end of a fiscal year)). --Anibas 08:27, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cosmology of Spira

What the... Some joker is going aound and changing every mention of mythology into "cosmology" or metaphysics. I posted several notes saying "NO we aren't talking about stars, this is Myth". The guy seems to think that because there is no one who takes FFX as a religion (although some of us do come close ;-) ) that is not myth. Yet there is Artificial Myth just like FFX all over in literature, movies, games, .... Time to put one of those edit notes on all the pages ? Renmiri 06:40, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't worry about placing one of the edit notes. It's not been a frequent issue. Anyway, I do agree that the use of "artificial mythology" makes more sense than "cosmology" (which is a little too broad a term for the scope of what's being discussed in those sections), but "metaphysics" seems okay too in the proper context. Ryu Kaze 14:53, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
All is well and done but this is not a fight we have to pick. Artificial Mythology is a term used at Wikipedia and is part of the Mythology portal sections. He doesn't like the term ? Take it with the Myth experts, I'm sure they are eager to tackle those esotherical ponderings. Until the term Artificial Mythology gets removed I don't see why we have to change our page. Renmiri 23:46, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hi

i looked for this wikiproject because i just remembered looking through various FFVII articles last year... and alot of them were really horrible. i know i'm not helping much by critisizing them and not simply editing them, but still, i just thought i might bring it to someones attention...

anyways, certain problems i saw were: extremely overlong articles- many character articles were saturated with practically the entire story of the game, and looking through the whole group of articles about the game, it becomes immediately obvious that there is a crapload of material that is unnececary and sometimes repeated throughout all the articles

bad writing (stylistic problems, imformal phrasing, unencyclopedic, bad grammar)

overreliance on paraphrases of characters' speech as indication of their feelings or fact (this is just a pet peeve of mine, but it's too much storytelling and not enough telling)

too much emphasis on fan speculations and reactions, especially when phrased as "Many felt.." "Many think..." "Fans felt..." "Fans think..."

and although analysis of aspects of the game using knowledge of psychology and mythology is interesting and relevant, unless it is atrributed to a published source (or blog or other internet thing), then it cannnot be in wikipedia because it would be unverifiable, new research. (at least considered that under wikipedia standars).

Blueaster 01:00, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It would be helpful to us if you would elaborate a bit on which articles these problems are present in. A number of our articles have become featured in the past few months (Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy VI) because they are of the upmost quality on Wikipedia. Article length is rarely an issue when the correct material is presented, and we've begun extensive referencing, in response to your last point. The problems, such as bad grammar and weasel words, that you've noted may be present on other articles under the project's umbrella, but we're attempting to improve them all little by little as much as we can. ~ Hibana 01:10, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As Hibana said, WP:FF has a few featured articles under its belt but there are also many bastions of fancruft that still need major clean-up. Working at utmost speed without sacrificing quality of work is a major goal. If there's anything you really feel demands immediate attention, just say so and I (or one of the other editors) will try to get on it. Or you could even try to tackle it yourself. We always welcome more members. Axem Titanium 01:43, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hell just froze over: Final Fantasy VII went FA

Never thought I'd see it happen. Not sure how it did, really. But it did. So there you go. Final Fantasy VII's article is now a featured article. I'd like to thank Deckiller, Hibana and everybody else here on the FF WikiProject — or the Computer and video games WikiProject in general — who offered a copyedit, link repair, advice or just moral support. I couldn't have done it without you all for one reason or another, I'm sure. Ryu Kaze 02:17, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it doesn't seem as fitting as I thought it would, such a highly praised and historical monument of gaming getting featured. I thought for sure that spoiler opposition was going to put things on hold for a while. Oh well, congrats Ryu, and everyone...again! ~ Hibana 02:25, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again. Ryu Kaze 02:43, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Monument of a game? More like overrated as hell. But a great article done by great editors anyway, and that's the important thing. I feel the same way about Chrono Cross, another article I worked on a little. Sir Crazyswordsman 03:44, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Dang. I'm in awe. Awesome, awesome job, you guys.  :) -RaCha'ar 02:51, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm in awe. FFIV next, I hope. It's 15th year anniversary is coming up this November. Sir Crazyswordsman 03:43, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Even though FFVII is far from favourite FF, I have to agree with the others. Awesome job, Congratulations to all of you. (Enough praise, get back to work, create more FAs ;)) --Anibas 07:26, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the compliments everyone. While I'd like to get another one to FA status, I really won't have time to as of Monday. Sorry everybody. But thanks anyway for the compliments.
By the way, CS, I think Hibana was referring more to VII's historical value with the monument line. XD
Congratulations! --PresN 19:04, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy

The original one! Has been copyedited and marked up recently showing many citations needed, and I'm afraid someone will mount a challenge to its Good article status. If someone wants to pop over there and help me find a reference or too, that would be great. Thanks!Judgesurreal777 16:12, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've suggested that unsourced information on the music should be moved to All Sounds of Final Fantasy I•II, not because it will reduce the amount of citations needed in Final Fantasy, but because it's too detailed. ~ Hibana 17:16, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I will be out for four days

I have to drive back to school and buy stuff for my apartment. But I'll be back on Monday. Hope someone can help me with FFIV while I'm gone. I've actually mostly been working with Magus (Chrono Trigger) with Zeality, and we're trying to get it to GA. But FFIV is my next target, I promise. Sir Crazyswordsman 02:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm back. Sir Crazyswordsman 18:42, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm done working on Final Fantasy V for now. I've started to work on Final Fantasy IV. Let me know if there's anything in particular I can help with. ~ Hibana 19:21, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Cloud Strife Article

That article is way too long, it needs to be shortened. He is a video game character, not a living person. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PrincessOfHearts (talk • contribs) 21:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC).[reply]

An article for a video game character could potentially need to be as long as one for a living person (it all depends on how much needs to be covered), but in this case, yes, the article needs to be shorter. This is actually something that most of us agree with, but our attention has been on improving the actual game pages for the most part. It seemed much more important to me to get the Final Fantasy VII article to FA status than to focus on the article for a single character from the game. Ryu Kaze 03:20, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And I'm going to stay far away from that article. If it weren't for wikipedia policies, I'd write a section on why Cloud is the leader of the children's RPG cult (whereas Fei Fong Wong is the leader of the more adult RPG cult). :-) — Deckiller 17:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Amen, Deck. But Frog and Magus from Chrono Trigger (the latter of which will be a GA (my first) very soon, hopefully) are the co-leaders of the adult RPG cult of my generation. Sir Crazyswordsman 01:55, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Little help needed at List of Final Fantasy XI characters

An anon who will not respond to messages on his talk page keeps adding a huge amount of information to the Prince Trion section of this article (diff). I've reverted him twice before outright rewriting the section so it's not one huge ball of cruft. He's put his version back in this morning; if I revert him again I believe I'll be cutting close to 3RR. Does anyone know what the general policy is with content disputes like this when someone refuses to communicate with other editors? It absolutely cannot stand in its current condition - there is FAR too much information there - but I really don't want a block for violating 3RR. Can anyone help? -RaCha'ar 14:14, 25 August 2006 (UTC) Never mind. I'll try to deal with this myself and I'll worry about it if it actually does become a 3RR situation. I've hit my third revert and left a note in the body of the article as well as another on the user's talk page. We'll see if I get anywhere. -RaCha'ar 14:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'll help! Renmiri 14:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Final_Fantasy/Archive/16&oldid=87578133"