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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Scoutersig (talk | contribs) at 14:28, 6 May 2008 (→‎Tobasco Donkeys: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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WikiProject iconScouting Project‑class
WikiProject iconWikipedia:WikiProject Scouting is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ScoutingWikipedia:WikiProject ScoutingTemplate:WikiProject ScoutingScouting articles
ProjectThis page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Article Content, remarks
Scouting Describes the movement of Scouting: history (founding, growth), activities one does in Scouting, organization, should cover both male (Boy Scouts and Cubs) and female (Girl Guides and Brownies), younger/older sections, international
Scout Movement redirect to Scouting
Boy Scout About the boy 11-17 years, activities he does in Scouting, Troop/Patrol, Scout Law, Motto, Uniform. Not about history, not about the organization or movement. This article should include a remark that girls may follow this line of Scouting too, instead of being a Girl Guide (Europe/World line of thinking)
Scout remains disambiguation page
Girl Guide and Girl Scout About the girl, article equivalent to Boy Scout
Girl Guide, Girl Scout redirect to GG&GS (US line of thinking)
Cub Scout, Brownie (Girl Guides) About the little boy/girl, equivalent to Boy Scout
Robert Baden-Powell, 1st Baron Baden-Powell About the person Baden-Powell, and his personal history. Not about the Scout movement other than his input/influence. Lots of redirects here, btw.
Boy Scouts, Girl Guides, etc General summary pages that have see also links to other Scouting pages. Used to avoid to lead users to more indepth articles, no longer disambiguation pages due to all the confusion of different naming conventions. All other plurals redirect to the singular per Wikipedia standard, not to Scouting or a separate organization oriented article
WOSM, WAGGGS Articles about the current international organization. Not about the Scouting movement, history pertaining to the organization only.

WOSM

Will someone please keep an eye on, perhaps lock WOSM, the acronym? The disambig doesn't apparently suffice for some, so it keeps getting changed back from the redirect to our article. It is far more important than the radio station in Mississippi. Thanks Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 04:01, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ireland

Would someone knowledgeable look at Sea Scout (Ireland) and see what images should be retained? The images have no source and are incorrectly licensed, but some should probably not be used. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:02, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting userbox MfD

Just thought you should be aware of this userbox up for deletion since it's categorized under scouting users: CFIREUSA MfD. Dreadstar † 22:14, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Boy Scout Handbook image

I took the new hazardous weather course offered online by the BSA.[1] When I get to the hypothermia section, I noticed a familiar image— the ripple in the cover is unique.[2] Compare it to Image:Handbook.jpg. I checked with Scoutersig and verified that he had scanned the handbook image at home and uploaded it. Looks like we are starting to get noticed. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dragonskin

Dragonskin is a Venture Scout activity in New South Wales. User:Francis.conroy wrote an article on it at the end of Dragon Skin, which is a disambiguation page. I removed it from there and added it to his talk page, where I also suggested a much contracted rewrite free of POV, that might be added to Scouting in New South Wales. Please keep an eye on it. --Bduke (talk) 04:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cabals

You BSA guys have made it at the Boy Scouts Cabal. Us non-USA folks do not get a look in. I'll have to be content with the Australian Cabal. --Bduke (talk) 21:23, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strange that the Jews aren't on there, I mean, they did sink the Titanic... Iceberg-think about it. Oy, vey! :) Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 21:30, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
<groan> But the Australian Cabal doesn't mention vegemite, Foster's, Mel Gibson or The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:39, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Mmm, vegemite! How to get that here? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 21:51, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Can't stand the stuff. BTW, do not think we all drink Foster's. It is brewed overseas for overseas folks. You hardly ever see a Blue Tin here. Now a Green Tin, that's different. --Bduke (talk) 22:15, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What does the green one signify? If you'll go ahead and send me your ration of vegemite... hey, since Japan is closer, maybe I can put in a request... :) Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 04:53, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It was in the Northern Territory that we ordered beer by the colour of the tin. A Green Tin or if 24, a slab of greenies, is a VB = Victoria Bitter. It is one of the better cheaper beers.
Gadget850, is there a userbox for the Boy Scout Cabal? JGHowes talk - 16:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This user is a member of the Boy Scout Cabal and is experienced at tying up discussions and truculent users.

For personal amusement only. Anyone stuffing this into the userbox list is going to get the Scout Stave of Justice administered. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 18:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Recently found articles

I've been adding them one or two at a time as I've been finding them, but today I took a look at all the biographies of astronauts here, and there are quite a few that are not tagged. When I get done tagging, should I add them to the section on the project main-page, or should I just list them here, because there is at least 10. -MBK004 20:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the list, feel free to move it to the project page if you see fit:
-MBK004 20:54, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Do we really want to tag all of these folks with only a passing relationship to Scouting? For example; Buzz Aldrin was a Tenderfoot but does not appear to have done anything with Scout since. Those with the DESA, Silver Buffalo or the like should be included. I think it would be better to create a List of astronauts who were Scouts. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think the Eagles (at least) are notable because of List of Eagle Scouts (Boy Scouts of America), and they can be referenced from existing refs on that page. As for the others, I'm not sure, I just do the gnome-type tasks and tag them. I'll leave policy up to you and Rlevse. Also, I didn't tag Harrison Schmitt because he was only a 1st class scout, and it isn't mentioned on that page, but it is on a ref I've read and mentioned above. -MBK004 21:20, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think Ed's on to something. Support creation. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 21:23, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I also support creation, but also think the individual tagging is justified. Also, the BSA and NASA have made our job of creating the page easy: Astronauts and the BSA. -MBK004 21:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And here is the GSUSA list. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, _where's_ the Girl Scout list? There's no link. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 03:03, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ooops- [3] --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 12:35, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I support creation of a List of astronauts who were Scouts (which include the Girl Scouts). I am working on tagging the Eagle Scouts and but references about their involvement in the articles. Some help would be nice. If I rated to low just change the ratings.-Yours in Scouting Phips (talk) 23:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"First-Ever National Eagle Scout Search"

I don't really know what they are doing with this, but NESA is sending out a mass-mailer this last week. It looks like they will be planning to publish a registry of some sort. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 23:50, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes- see NESA Eagle Scout Search. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 01:05, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of Scouts in Poland

I'm looking at this list and thinking, is there any reason we are keeping the redlinks with no explanation on them, or may I delete them and snug this up? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 14:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Was bold, did it, merged into parent article. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 13:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gadgets

Various tools keep quietly appearing under My Preferences > Gadgets. Some that I recommend enabling:

  • Twinkle— a really great set of anti-vandalism and maintenance tools.
  • Friendly— adds tabs for welcome, shared IP, tag and so forth.

If you do a lot of image work, I also recommend:

  • FURMe— a tool that helps with fair use rationales in a "fill in the blank" approach.

--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:16, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Today's featured article-E. Urner Goodman

:-) I´m happy about that.-Phips (talk) 15:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

general question

is there a "move from Commons" tag, for images which are not appropriate there but which can be fairly used on the English Wikipedia? I am trying to save some images which were put on Commons but have no business there. Thanks. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 02:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I know of. Reload it on en.wiki if it's FU. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
TCOd, thanks! :) Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 04:20, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, now that I have, I find there is a not-quite-duplicated image I uploaded some time ago.
Should we keep both, or choose one? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 04:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GSUSA megamerges

Today I went to go check a local Girl Scout website, and it redirected me thus: "Thank you for visiting the Girl Scouts of Colorado, Western Slope Service Center website. As of October 1, 2007, we are joined together with our sister Girl Scouts from the state as one Girl Scouts of Colorado council, where we will build girls of courage, confidence and character who make the world a better place. To learn more about Girl Scouting on the Western Slope, please visit our new website at www.girlscoutsofcolorado.org." After I got over the mild diabetic shock from the writing style, ;) I wondered. Are such state-wide mergers going on throughout the GSUSA, and where would all this be documented? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 09:19, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Per Girl Scouts of the USA#Organizational structure: "As part of the 26 August 2006 reorganization, the National Board of Directors decided to restructure the 312 councils into 109 councils." --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WOSM applicants

WOSM is considering the applications of four NSOs:

--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 17:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks interesting.
National Organization of Scouts of Ukraine: Who is SICH? Which organisation is this? Is this organisation already included in our article Scouting in Ukraine? Yours in Scouting-Phips (talk) 18:28, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(SICH may not actually be an acronym, it seems to point here: Ukrainian Sich Riflemen) Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 04:52, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"Sich" seems to mean "fortified settlement", maybe it is something like the German Stamm (tribe) concept.--Egel Reaction? 14:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
From the reference:

National Organization of Scouts of Ukraine (NOSU)
Following the recommendations of Resolution 2/05 adopted by the 37th World Scout Conference in Tunisia, the constitutive congress of the National Organization of Scouts of Ukraine (NOSU) was held on 27 March 2007. The congress, which gathered Scout representatives from most regions of Ukraine, approved the Constitution of NOSU and elected its governing bodies. This event was made possible thanks to efforts of three Scout associations (PLAST, SPOK and SICH) to work towards unification of Scouting in Ukraine in a new single NSO so as to be able to join WOSM.

It is not quite clear to me if PLAST, SPOK and SICH are actually merging or are forming a federation. The document also references the WP article on Ukraine. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 18:50, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I understand, NOSU has actually both individual and corporate membership with PLAST, SPOK and SICH as corporate members, so it is kind of a mixture between a federation and a single organization. But the paper is not very clear on this point. If I was to decide in my association I would request a clarification.
I wonder if Ukraine will be admitted with this presentation; five percent opposition means only eight NSOs. Could also be tricky for Syria, there may be doubts on its independence when receiving state fundings. --jergen (talk) 11:25, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Updates-Montenegro

  • WOSM referred to this organization as the Scout Association of Serbia and Montenegro
  • The organization split after the separation of Montenegro from Serbia
  • WOSM membership remained with the Serbia organization
  • Association of Scouts of Montenegro was founded on 19 November 2006

Reference: [8] --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Right now we have Savez Izviđača Srbije i Crne Gore, Savez Izviđača Srbije and Savez Izviđača Crne Gore. I calved the Serb one off the S&M (no, stop that) one two years ago. If we should integrate, would someone with a good eye make sure all changes are included for that period? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 04:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Headings

Is there a reason why three of the major headings on the main project page are Computer Science, Relational algebra, and Economics? Why is "New Scouting Articles" a subsection of "Economics"? Why the disambig page tag floating in the middle of what is clearly not a disambig page? Did I miss something? Kingbird (talk) 04:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like someone added something we didn't catch...-MBK004 04:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Chris changed a template, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Scouting%2FArticle_watchlist&diff=202701781&oldid=202682388, and inadvertently caused this. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:03, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scouts Canada

Someone who knows more about the situation in Canada needs to keep an eye on this article. I reverted an anon's continued removal of materials, and semi-protected to get discussion on the talk page. It looks like the anon has come back using a little used username, but he is explaining his changes. However sources are needed. --Bduke (talk) 06:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we have a long term member from Canada, but hopefully one will appear. Has the user engaged in talk? If it continues the page may need full protection. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is looking OK now so I have removed the semi-protection. The new editor is commenting fine on the talk page. --Bduke (talk) 02:35, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bhutan Scout Tshogpa article

This article dealing with the Bhutan Scout Association has some POV problems which needs to be sorted out. As Bhutan is an independent sovereign nation, the sections on scouting in Tibet and Sikkim should be removed from this article, and placed within the respective Chinese and Indian scouting articles. The inclusion of Tibet on this article is especially troubling, due not only to it being unreferenced, but also because the PRC, with which Bhutan does not have any diplomatic relations, has embarked on a campaign to have Dzongkha renamed by firms such as Microsoft to 'Tibetan - Bhutanese' - whilst Bhutan and Tibet share similar cultures, they are different and distinct cultures all the same. Additionally, due to a border dispute between Bhutan and China, and the lack of formal diplomatic relations between the two, the Chinese actively lead incursions into Bhutan and build roads and the like in Bhutanese territory. Having Tibet and Sikkim on the Bhutan page is opening a big can of worms which I don't believe that Wikipedia should be opening, and hence they should be split out of the article altogether. On another note, the Bhutan Scouts Association as it is officially known (English is an official language of Bhutan) is overseen by the Scouts and Cultural Education Division of the Department of Youth, Culture and Sports, which comes under the umbrella of the Ministry of Education. The BSA has an online presence at http://www.education.gov.bt, with the specific pages at http://www.education.gov.bt/Departments/Dept_YCS/SCED/SCED.html, with a multitude of information, including various handbooks and guides which might be beneficial for this project and development of the Bhutan SA page. Note, the association page on the page is incorrect, the correct badge can be seen in documents such as the scoutmaster handbook which can be downloaded from their site. Anyway, if someone from within the project can look at the Tibet and Sikkim issue, and make any necessary changes; not being familiar with the setup of scout articles on WP, I am hesitant to do it myself. --Россавиа Диалог 10:16, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I intentionally put Tibet and Sikkim there, as just as politically and culturally, if they had gone into the separate Chinese and Indian articles, they would have gotten buried or trashed by the persistent Chinese POV pushers. This article is a fine incubator for such sections, as three related cultures, and I am not inclined to move or rewrite as I seem to be the near-only contributor (and nearly only visitor) to that article. There are far vaster POV issues elsewhere to deal with. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 14:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  1. The source at http://www.education.gov.bt/Departments/Dept_YCS/SCED/SCED.html contains valuable material that should be included.
  2. The illustrations are too bad to be used. I prefer a slightly differing emblem which has been published by the WOSM in a good quality to bad jpgs.
  3. I do not understand why Tibet and Sikkim are included, especially as both paragraphs are mere speculation.
  4. As English is an official language in Bhutan the article should be moved to Bhutan Scout Association. --jergen (talk) 08:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to keep the parts together, better rename to Scouting in the Himalayas. --Egel Reaction? 09:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to the official Bhutan site, it's Bhutan Scouts Association - with the 's', not "Scout" (without the 's'), so I've made the rename. I also think including Tibet and Sikkim is off the track. My suggestion to Chris is to take Egel's suggestion and make a topical article with the name Egel suggested or a similar name, leaving the Bhutan article strictly dealing with Bhutan. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am a little surprised at the reply from Chris above, so I have made the decision to move the sections dealing with Tibet and Sikkim to the Chinese and Indian articles respectively. This stops the Bhutan article from being POV in this regard; if there is POV in the Chinese article, this is not reason to dump it in the Bhutan article, for the reasons I mentioned above. One thing I did forget to mention is that the Chinese government has done what they have done to Bhutan due to the ridiculous claim that Bhutan has territorial designs on Tibet (an incredulous claim considering Bhutan is still emerging from isolation, and doesn't have the ability to defend itself against Chinese incursions). I also removed speculation of Bhutan being involved in Tibet for 2 main reasons; 1) It is assuming that Tibet will (or is going) to gain independence from China, or that China will allow scouting in Tibet with outside assistance and 2) scouting in Bhutan is run under the Bhutan Ministry of Education, and whilst it comes under govermment, the Bhutan MoE is run on a tight budget as it is (with the country as a whole being a recipient of foreign development aid) and what money the Ministry does have would likely be spent on projects within Bhutan first. Whilst there may be more important POV issues to deal with, articles dealing with Bhutan are the poster child of why WP:BIAS was set up. I see that Rlevse has moved the article, thanks, the old name seemed somewhat problematic to me; not knowing Dzongkha, this is guestimation on my part, but Bhutan Scout Tshogpa is part Dzongkha-part English, and it most likely is not known as Bhutan Scout Tshogpa in Dzongkha - tshopga seems to mean party, group, and probably also association - the Dzongkha word for Bhutan is Druk Yul (commonly abbreviated to simply Druk in some settings, so the transliterated name would likely be 'Druk (whatever the Dzongkha word for Scouts is) Tshogpa'. In regards to images in the article, perhaps contact with the BSA on the email listed on the website (ygcdhead@druknet.bt) would be beneficial; it is my experience the Bhutanese are more than happy to answer questions and will go the extra yard to assist in matters such as this (just going by my own experience in researching the Drukair article which I am currently redoing and expanding). --Россавиа Диалог 11:17, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen the changes and now deletions over the last two days, and some people are just busybodies. >:^{ Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 14:48, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
WP:CIVIL. --jergen (talk) 19:00, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Chris, keep it cool. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There was no proper discussion, there were pronouncements and then everyone did what they wanted to do. It's hard enough to find good information about most of these smaller countries, and often I am the only one who adds any content. I work very hard on these, please explain why I should be civil to such editors. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 23:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of {{Asia topic}} and {{Europe topic}} etc. in Scouting articles

Is this really necessary and helpful? Chris included the template in the respective Asian and European articles yesterday (or created the necessary redirects), but I'm not quite sure if I'm happy with it: Most of the articles are mere disambiguitions (as Scouting in Austria or Scouting in Armenia) and are blown up by the template. --jergen (talk) 14:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I put them there because I find it useful to have links between the "Scouting in..." articles, right now the only ones linked one to another are the WOSM and WAGGGS specific articles, but there is nothing to tie the non-aligned or alternately-aligned organizations. How are you meaning "blown up"? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 17:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
With "Blown up" I ment pages with only three or four lines and (now) an infobox that's far bigger than the article itself (as in Scouting in Albania). --jergen (talk) 18:26, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you can think of a way to close them, I would be happy to work with you on them. I just think it is a useful way of linking them. I found one untagged, and am going through them now as another graphic editor has offered cleanup on some of our images. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 18:32, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You can use {{Europe topic|Scouting in|state=collapsed}} etc. --Egel Reaction? 08:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Splendid! Thank you! I will go back over them! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 15:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

refToolbar

COOL! — Rlevse • Talk • 01:27, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is excellent! Now when I actually get back to writing articles, this will come in handy. :) -MBK004 21:10, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know that Chingachgook and Uncas have articles? I doubt that they deserve to be part of the Scouting WP, but should there be any linking between them and other OA pages? —ScouterSig 01:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Only if the OA article refers to them as there literary characters and not as OA roles. My two cents. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Notability for Local council camps of the BSA

See Category talk:Local council camps of the Boy Scouts of America#notablity

Is there a standard, guideline or policy for gauging the notability of a local council camp? What is the minimal standard needed for a local council camp to be considered notable? Or are all local council camps just inheriantly notable? I tagged many articles for lacking of assertion of notability and/or lack of citing sources. I'm not saying these camps are not a notable subjects, but many of these articles (as they are written now) don't show or explain any notability. What makes a camp notable? ScoutCruft (talk) 02:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know that I'm comfortable discussing this with a single-purpose-account user with a negative username that was created less than a day ago. Watch for sockpuppets. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 04:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Have you noticed the edits by User:R00m c? --evrik (talk) 19:52, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is a vaid question that should be addressed, reguardless of who is asking it and whatever you may assume about them. I would like nothing more than to see these articles flourish, prosper and become quality encyclopedic articles. I would love to see the coverage of individual scout camps grow and become even better. I would like to spend time expanding the articles in this category and I also want to create some new articles covering other local camps that are not yet covered here -- but before I do all this I want to make sure my efforts won't be in vein. Before I spend a lot of time working on cleaning-up and expanding articles, I want to know that my work won't be for nothing because the articles will eventualy be deleted for not meeting Wikipedia's standards of notability. So I ask again... What makes a camp notable? -- ScoutCruft (talk) 05:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know little of the BSA situation in the USA, but here is a view from outside. In the UK there are articles for the four Scout Activity Centres. I think all other camp sites are only mentioned in articles on Scout Counties or Areas. In Australia I do not think there are any stand-alone articles. Camp sites are mentioned in the State and Territory articles. I have no thoughts on how you organise it in the USA. I thought you might like this information however. --Bduke (talk) 09:04, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A similar question periodically arises concerning notability of local churches and middle schools etc. per WP:ORG. Having participated a little in AfD's about those subjects, I'd say that most articles about Scout camps are unlikely to have the required reliable sources to pass WP:N and would need to assert special notability. Even a very prominent Council camp such as New York's Ten Mile River Boy Scout Camp, which certainly has special notability because of Franklin D. Roosevelt's involvement, doesn't have a whole lot of secondary reliable sources. As to a "standard guideline for Scout camps", we have WP:SCOUTMOS#Non-national articles.JGHowes talk - 19:21, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would disagree. Notability is a subjective thing. The fact is, all the information in these camp articles can't be rolled up into the state articles. That would make the state articles too unwieldy. The camp information is important, and I think it's preferable to have them there, even if in a linited form. I prefer to see all the "cruft" trimmed out. --evrik (talk) 19:51, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Jim Howes, notability standards exist throughout Wikipedia, and apply to our project as much as they do to others, hence our standards have been aligned to WP:ORG. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 20:53, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SCOUTMOS says in part... "Individual chapters of national and international organizations are usually not notable enough to warrant a separate article unless sufficient notability is established through reliable sources. However, chapter information may be included in list articles as long as only verifiable information is included."

And:

"Local chapter articles should start as a section of the parent organization article. If the parent article grows to the point where it may be split to a new article, and notability can be demonstrated using the general notability guideline, then it can be split."

If these articles can't stand on their own, they should roll into the council article or secondarily the state article. Cruft definitely needs to come out. Everyone wants to write about their favorite camp, but no one works much on the state and council articles; which is a separate issue, albeit related. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:56, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Allow me to add a further comment and a question from outside the USA. How big are the Councils? I have taken the view that we go to one level of organisation below national. In Australia that is the State or Territory. This has lead to some reasonable articles, even for the Australian Capital Territory, although the very small Territories are a problem. In the UK, the Counties in England and Areas in Scotland and Wales are too small and there are too many. There are 7 in Northern Ireland, 12 in Wales, 31 in Scotland and 57 in England. This is far too many with the population covered being far too small. This leads to these articles being full of unsourced cruft; lists of Groups etc. Scotland has just reorganized to 7 regions and I am planning to merge the 31 Areas into 7 Region articles. In fact I have one in my sandbox when I get around to adding it. Unfortunately we do not seem to have any Project members from Scotland. The experience is that small levels of organization attract cruft. I intend in the process to remove the lists of Groups, etc. However, I am also adding them to the Scoutwiki with the lists. That is the place for them. I am probably going to need some support when I start wholesale removal of cruft. --Bduke (talk) 22:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I believe BSA has about 500 councils. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:47, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Within the BSA, National has four areas, then 308 councils. Within those councils are 307 OA lodges and over 500 local camps. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 00:19, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have a council list at User:Gadget850/Scout2. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 00:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to put the USA Councils as about the same size as UK Counties/Areas or perhaps a bit larger. You may well attract the same kind of cruft that the UK articles attract, although you may have more editors watching them. The UK articles are hardly watched, but just attract edits from anons and others with an interest in only one of them. --Bduke (talk) 00:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

off-topic but near-topic ;)

My father finally found the Christmas present he had for me, and it was actually pretty neat, a 1920s-1930s Eagle Scout ribbon, plus what we found may be an old BSA silver Scout hat badge. Are you folks familiar with the large old brass First Class badges? It looks like that, it was tarnished almost burnt-looking, he test-cleaned the back and it is silver, and he just lightly polished the front. Two questions-

  1. did you even know such a thing existed? I did not.
  2. should we clean the front or leave the age patina on? Are there rules like there are for coins?

Thanks, folks! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 13:59, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think hat pins have been around from the start. Collar pins were used up to the 1960s. Some good info: [9] I like the current pewter hat pin— I use it on my comfy summer straw hat. [10] A new pin was just introduced for Venturing. [11] --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:34, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deletionpedia

Looking for information from that deleted article? Check out Deletionpedia. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Admins can pull up the entire history of a deleted article or page, unless it's been oversighted. — Rlevse • Talk • 16:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New Scotland Regions

I have started the process of merging the old area articles in Scotland to a smaller number of articles for the new Regions. See a longer discussion about it at Talk:The Scout Association#New Scotland Regions. Help is very much needed. I started that one new article on a sandbox weeks ago, and created the new articles and all the redirects today. --Bduke (talk) 04:18, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can I get a little help

I'm trying to improve the Jamboree 2008 (Ireland) article, can anyone tell me the appropriate infobox to use, is there an infobox for Jamborees, much appreciated.Seanor3 (talk) 16:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tobasco Donkeys

If you have information to add to The Tobasco Donkeys, it is currently nominated for deletion, and at the moment, it meets the criteria for deletion for bands. —ScouterSig 14:28, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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