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Thanks for the clarification. I'll review the article. BTW, {{ping|Czar}} I added some comments to the Ziggurat GAN. [[User:Wirenote|wirenote]] ([[User talk:Wirenote|talk]]) 23:33, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. I'll review the article. BTW, {{ping|Czar}} I added some comments to the Ziggurat GAN. [[User:Wirenote|wirenote]] ([[User talk:Wirenote|talk]]) 23:33, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

== Request for outside input on [[Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]] ==

[[User:Ryulong]] has been aggressively reverting and edit warring to his preferred version on [[Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]] in regards to new information about the games being added. Please see the discussion at [[Talk:Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire#"CoroCoro leaks"]]. I would like to include outside perspectives to help resolve this content dispute, because it appears I cannot get anywhere alone. '''[[User:Artichoker|<span style="color:#064">Artichoker</span>]]'''<sup>['''[[User talk:Artichoker|<span style="color:#000">talk</span>]]''']</sup> 00:10, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 00:10, 9 June 2014

Replacing to do with announcements

I've been working on a replacement for the to do box that graces the top of our pages because I find it kind of ugly. I modified a version of the MILHIST announcements board (and sprung a new template in the process). I think this gives us some room to grow and is generally a better template for this stuff. Also you'll notice that I have two different listings for GANs—that's because I tried two different methods of adding GANs: the current manual system of adding commas or bullets between items, or the flatlist system of making a bulleted list that is converted into a nice listing. I think the latter is a little nicer and much easier to update, but the trade-off is that the bullets are a little less bold. I'm looking for your feedback on this. You can see how the list would be updated in either format by editing {{WPVG announcements}} (as you would Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/to do). And voilà:

My question: Are y'all interested in using this as a replacement for "to do" in the {{WPVG}} banner? Open to feedback, czar ♔ 01:01, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In either case I've modified Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Good content to use the GAN link template. I like the new format, and I support the flatlist. Any reason why the FACs aren't using an FAC link template as well? --PresN 01:53, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Since I was making it from scratch, wanted to test it and get feedback before making the rest—done czar ♔ 04:04, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's better this way. Tezero (talk) 04:30, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It looks great. My only concern is that it might not look as good condensed inside {{WPVG}}. Otherwise, go for it. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:54, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

All right—it's up. I did some fancy stuff to make it play nice with the banner, so I think you'll like it, Jimmy. As for this page, are there any thoughts on removing the project banner up top (wasn't it added only somewhat recently?) and just having the announcements in its stead? It's a lot of wasted space for a high traffic page . czar ♔ 15:21, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome. It's a huge improvement. And yeah, I'd agree with removing the banner and replacing it with announcements. I always thought it was kind of strange to have both of them up there. MILHIST only has announcements on their talk page, so it should be fine. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 19:33, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, remove the pointless "This is a Wikiproject" banner. - hahnchen 11:17, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

PresN recently boldly went ahead with this. Would there be any opposition to using an arrangement similar to the mock-up currently in my sandbox? czar ♔ 22:47, 28 May 2014 (UTC) To clarify, that would be using {{WPVG sidebar}}, which includes the shortcut and archives box templates czar ♔ 06:34, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I boldly agree with this. --PresN 23:18, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I boldly merged all the header stuff (besides the archive bot setup params) into "/header" and merged the archives and shortcut templates into a new {{WPVG sidebar}}, which displays neater and cleaner (and, if wanted, can replace the normal sidebar transclusion on the other pages. Anyway, I think it's a definite improvement, but I've only done it for this page, so if anyone objects we can discuss it here czar ♔ 14:43, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sega-16.com

Most Sega-related articles seem to use this site, I've used it myself, part of me wishes it were reliable, and it would take some work to remove all references to it; but I just don't feel good about Sega-16.com. I accept that Ken Horowitz is a published journalist, and maybe my judgement is affected by my personal opinion that most of the articles on the site are horribly written and poorly informed, but there is no evidence whatsoever that Horowitz fact-checks any of his work or that of his staff (none of whom have any credentials outside of being Sega fans). Just as a random example of the quality of this above-average fansite, take a look at this article on Eternal Champions, a 16-bit fighting game series generally remembered as a mediocre attempt to copy Mortal Kombat with even more over-the-top violence. Horowitz's opinion that Eternal Champions was actually far superior to Street Fighter II and Virtua Fighter is pretty far out there, and his logic is often nonsensical (claiming that the very prospect of a Saturn Eternal Champions might have been "the best 2D fighting game ever made", arguing that "Sega's eventual decision to farm out the development of Virtua Fighter 3tb on the Dreamcast is proof" that Virtua Fighter "would not be able to compete with Eternal Champions" in the US, and most bizarrely asking why Sega cancelled Eternal Champions while approving "Criticom, Rise of the Robots, and Zero Divide"--in other words, a random collection of third-party games that happened to appear on Sega consoles), but what is particularly jarring is that the four sources cited in the article include the thoroughly unreliable Eidolon's Inn and even a plea to "Save Eternal Champions!" from "Dave's Sega Saturn Page". I've heard that the site has improved in recent years, but the more I look at Sega-16, the more I feel guilty of taking the easy way out for having used it to source things few RS cover. What do other editors think? Even if it is a RS for interviews, or has become a RS in recent years, we need to have some criteria for when it is acceptable rather than it being officially unreliable yet still widely used.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 05:30, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, so let me make some points of order here: Horowitz' opinion is strictly that: his opinion. That doesn't diminish his credentials; it just means he offers a different opinion. It's important to consider that. We know Horowitz is an established journalist; when he cites clearly unreliable sources, it's clear the facts in the article are unreliable. Contrast that with this article, which is a core source of Sega Meganet, a little-known internet service of the Sega Genesis before Sega Channel came to fruition. With the exception of the Sonic Eraser bit, all of the sources he's listed can be considered reliable by our standards (Lost Levels Online is written by Frank Cifaldi, who contributes to 1UP.com and is also an established video game journalist). There are certain spots that really need to be looked at case by case, and I think some agreement could be made to the following:
  • Interviews with Sega staffers are reliable.
  • Horowitz' own opinions are reliable as opinions and reception given his history as a published video game journalist. It's important to keep in mind they're opinions, though.
  • Feature articles posted by him need to be scrutinized and ensure that content does not come from unreliable sources.
I think it's a bad idea to stick a brick on it and call the whole thing not reliable. Some selectivity is probably the best answer because Sega-16 has a huge wealth of information and extremely useful content. They've been cited by Retro Gamer as well. IMO it may not be an easy source to be with it, but careful care with each feature will be the best resolution. Red Phoenix let's talk... 23:25, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am on the sage page as RedPhoenix.--SexyKick 23:20, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Add The Escapist to Template:Video game reviews

Consensus reached here on reliable source. Objections or comments on including it in the reviews list? Zero Serenity (talk) 16:08, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think they should go on the reviews template, or at least as a dedicated entry. For one, as we are saying that Escapist as a situational source means using reviews from them should not be automatic, and thus I would be very wary of having a line that would be easy to include them. Of course, if the review is legit we do have the additional extra lines for which the Escapist could be added if needed. --MASEM (t) 16:15, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Seconded, for the same reason. Sergecross73 msg me 17:02, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it was promoted from situational to reliable. That's what the discussion was all about. Zero Serenity (talk) 18:31, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever you put in the template encourages people to use that field. The template should only be highlighting choice reviews, and I don't think The Escapist's content rises to that threshold. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 19:10, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not that, at times, Jim Sterling nails something ("Earth Year 2066", I think it was, Jim's take on that was picked up by many basically saying what others really couldn't that the game was an insult to the Steam Early Access process), but most of the time I find the Escapist's reviews by anyone on the staff to be on par (not an outlier) from the main 6-8 that we usually defer to. --MASEM (t) 20:07, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, it's not like there are only a dozen reviewers in that template; there's about 50 and I see no objection to adding a field for The Escapist; I mean, if it's reliable, people are gonna use it as a custom field anyways, so might as will make life easier for everybody. I requested the template edit. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 03:43, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is just a note to let all involved editors know that the template has been returned to status quo – The Escapist has been taken back out of the template – pending the outcome of this request and discussion. – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 22:01, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Per Paine's comment, I'm going to ping the above editors (and hopefully get some others), as per mine and Paine's discussion on the template talk page, consensus was not obvious (we both came up with a different head count). @Masem, Sergecross73, and David Fuchs: You three appear to disapprove of the change to me. Can you confirm? @Zero Serenity and Salvidrim!: You both appear to approve the change to me. Can you confirm? @X201 and Technical 13: You both look like you were making comments from a process/technical perspective to me. Can you confirm? --Izno (talk) 04:07, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Technical 13: I think its because of your contribution here. On a separate matter, could we move the add/don't add part of this discussion to the actual template page and not have it here. Anyone tracking down the decision in the future is going to hate every single one of us for spreading it over two different talk pages. - X201 (talk) 11:57, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sega CD needs a source review

It's at WP:FAC, and just needs a source review for reliability to pass. Spotchecks shouldn't be needed. Thanks to whoever can snag it. Red Phoenix let's talk... 02:27, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've done one. --PresN 21:49, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Italics in vg reviews

Related pages

Dark mode inversion

Implement changes in Module:Video game reviews/sandbox and Module:Video game reviews/data/sandbox, which inverts the color scheme to support dark mode. Snowmanonahoe (talk · contribs · typos) 23:09, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Reopen the request if there are any issues :) SWinxy (talk) 18:19, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Early home computers

I quickly browsed talk archives but couldn't find anything relevant (please link if discussed already)...

I stumbled upon the Ghostbusters (1984 video game) page which led me to Module:Video game reviews/data.

For some unfathomable reason it seems the support for 80s home computer reviews is very sparse. I could add "C64" for Commodore 64 reviews, but there is neither support for Apple II nor "SMS" (which I presume refers to Sega Master System).

There's an absolute TRUCKLOAD of 8-bit systems not supported by your module.

Is there a reason for this? Before I attempt to Template:Video_game_reviews#How_to_add_a_new_platform, could it be that computer games are meant to use a different template than video game reviews - at least, that's about the only reason I can come up with? CapnZapp (talk) 10:12, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a reason for this? No one has asked for it thus far is the primary reason. Template editors can't necessarily be exhaustive or knowledgable on every possible system, and it's been added to as people request. -- ferret (talk) 14:29, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just found it hard to believe nobody has thought of using this template for MSX or Apple II reviews, or Atari 400/800 reviews, or TI or Colecovision reviews... so you're saying this is the only review template to use for early game reviews? Is the template perhaps a brand new initiative? Cheers CapnZapp (talk) 20:46, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The template has been in use for more than 16 years (see also the aforementioned talk archives). I suspect most editors who have used the template for those platforms simply opted for the single-platform layout instead (as most articles do), or perhaps simply for the |PC= parameter (as Ghostbusters currently does). – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 22:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MeriStation should be linked. Skyshiftertalk 18:59, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting that AllGame in review articles be linked to RhythmOne#AllGame instead of AllGame to avoid the automatic re-direct. Andrzejbanas (talk) 17:32, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The {{vg reviews}} talk page recently discussed how the template lost the italicization on some of the titles during its transition to Lua code. I implemented a fix in the module's sandbox (as pictured to the right) using the italicization exemplified in the vg reviews documentation. I wanted to run it past everyone here since it affects such a wide array of templates, but, yeah, this is just implementing something that was lost in the Lua translation. Any further discussion of which should/should not be italicized is best discussed at the template's talk page. (The change also corrects links for Dragon, Hyper, and Play and moves the parenthetical country distinctions outside the wikilink for OPM, OXM, and PC Gamer.) Any thoughts on adding italicization back? czar ♔ 22:30, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What's the guideline on why some need italicization and some don't? ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 23:13, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Because someone will have to present a very solid argument to convince me that out of GamePro, GamesRadar, GameSpot, GameSpy and GameZone, only two of the five are italicized. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 00:17, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think italics are only used for magazines/books. Some of them are magazines, so i can see why. Lucia Black (talk) 00:39, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
GamePro is a magazine, so it gets italicized. GameSpot is a website, so it should not be. --PresN 00:41, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't want to discuss this here, but here it is for the record: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles "Online magazines, newspapers, and news sites with original content should generally be italicized". (Note that this includes news websites, e.g., Polygon.) I'm of the opinion that even more should be italicized, but it's another conversation. I used the list as italicized in the current vg reviews documentation and we can discuss what gets added/removed later, but I'd like to move ahead with at least restoring what was lost with the Lua update. czar ♔ 01:17, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've noticed that italicizing Game Informer's name is falling out of fashion a bit. Is there a reason for this? Is the website becoming more popular or something? Tezero (talk) 02:04, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's still a magazine, so I imagine it's just an honest mistake (popularity has nothing to do with italicization of the title) czar ♔ 02:25, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with the italics. I think it's weird that GameSpot is in italics and IGN isn't. I generally leave GameSpot without italics, but if you're going with Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles (which we probably should), you may as well go all in and italicse IGN/GameZone/GameSpy/et al. I've no problem with that. - hahnchen 23:32, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Process for additions to VG Reviews template

I've started a discussion regarding an additions process for the reviews template, mainly so that passing admins have something to work to. Feel free to chip in. - X201 (talk) 08:42, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment requests

Right now we do reassessment requests by manually requesting at Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Assessment/Requests, which seems a bit antiquated to me. If there is any discussion about the rating, it gets lost in the page history. Instead I propose adding a "reassess" parameter to the {{WPVG}} banner that would add a category for articles requesting reassessment. Then discussion about the reassessment could happen at the article's talk page, if any is necessary at all, and the flag can be cleared once the reassessment is done. Thoughts? Objections? czar ♔ 15:23, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's a good way to go about it. Theoretically, then, it would compile all reassess requests in one place, that would then be removed should the parameter be removed? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:10, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, correct. The count will show in the bottom of {{WPVGA}} like the rest of the backlog czar ♔ 16:23, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Its a decent idea. However, I like being able to "Watch" the requests page to get updates on new requests. Or can you automate that page by monitoring additions to the category, so it can still be "watched"? Blake (Talk·Edits) 16:25, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's not possible to "watch" a category in such a way that changes of its membership are tracked. It sometimes gets requested at WP:VPT, and there's nothing that we can do except direct you to WP:Bugzilla. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:23, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The watchlist is just for article changes, but you can monitor changes to cats czar ♔ 17:40, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I mean like a bot which would update the page, similar to how Video game articles by quality log works. It is not required, I just think it would be nice. Blake (Talk·Edits) 18:46, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Czar: The "Recent changes linked" feature, when used on a category, doesn't track when pages are added to that category, but lists any change to a page, provided that it is currently in that category. So, if a page has 6 edits listed, the first of those might have been the one that put the page into the cat. But if an edit is then made which removes the page from the cat, not only is that edit not listed in Recent changes linked, but all six of the previous edits are removed too. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:08, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Redrose64, but it serve the purpose of showing what articles were added to the cat, no (among other edits)? Would you have a different recommendation? czar ♔ 21:59, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, it's implemented in the {{WPVGA}} above czar ♔ 21:59, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

inb4 "There's a new Sonic character; watch Tezero go nuts"

Sticks will get f**k-all attention from me until there's some kind of consensus that she's notable aside from the show and game. There are a few articles so far just about her, but that doesn't matter. Tezero (talk) 16:50, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • He's saying you bring it up all the time, and this one in particular is worded more like whining and complaining than a constructive discussion. I don't think mediation is necessary, I think you just need to drop it for a bit, because all consensuses are coming up against you or inconclusive right now, and your arguments, like this one, are devolving on quality. Sergecross73 msg me 20:49, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Quite the contrary. What I'm saying here is that because of the unfavorable nature of most of those discussions, I'm not about to waste my time with any more of these articles. In other words, I'm telling the project in advance not to groan in my direction. Tezero (talk) 20:58, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Except the project wasn't going to groan in your direction; unless I'm missing something, you haven't gone and created a stub article on a non-notable character or done anything else complaint-worthy. I'm actually not even sure what character you're talking about; you never mentioned a name and most people don't follow Sonic characters. This really is seeming like pre-emptive complaining. --PresN
  • A new character has been confirmed in Sonic Boom which is going to appear in the game and most likely in the TV series. Usually there is always coverage on new characters that make it into the Sonic series, so it could be entirely possible for her to be notable. but i dont know why you're reacting this way, so suddenly over a new character that has an equal chance of not being notable as there is that she is. i think we have to take them as we go. It looks more like you set your mind that this character is notable, and are willing to tell the wikiproject before even knowing yourself if she is. Lucia Black (talk) 21:14, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Exactly, PresN. There was no effort to actually prove a point here, no sources given, no real rationale, just a bunch of negatively worded complaining. Tezero, slowly read over what you wrote. How in the world could you possibly hope for constructive discussion to stem from that? Sergecross73 msg me 21:37, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • A reasonable complaint. Let me rephrase: It seems that I have a reputation for being over-enthusiastic with creating Sonic character articles, and because of recent revelations about this project's true attitudes toward notability, I'm uninterested in creating an article for this newly announced one at the moment. I'm letting you all know so you don't tense up too much. Factually, though, several dedicated articles on her are available - but again, even this much has not been enough on at least one occasion. Tezero (talk) 01:35, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mentor for newbie in the topic area

Some of you may know me, most of you don't. I was hoping that I could get of a bit of a crash course in this Wikiproject's standards and workings - I think I could do some good here. I've been big into content production and I've only did one GA that was not on a game in the usual sense. Though my personal library and collection would be up for sharing, as always. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 03:40, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WP:VG/GL is where we keep our guidelines and our inappropriate content list. As for your library, have a look at WP:VG/RL. And WP:VG/RS maintain a list of sources and their suitability. - X201 (talk) 08:12, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]


This game doesn't actually exist

Apparently we're doing pre-KickStarter appeal articles now. "Elysian Shadows...The team is currently promoting the game in preparation for a Kickstarter crowd-sourcing campaign during Q2/Q3 2014." Its just chock full of their plans for the game, the, at first, impressive references, are nothing more than links to their own Facebook and Youtube channels and there is only one third party review of note, and that is commenting on their Youtube videos rather than the game itself. This looks like pure advertising fluff, effectively "our game will do this this and this". Its going to need massive hacking back if it stays, but I think the easiest route is nominate for deletion. Opinions? - X201 (talk) 14:48, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Took a look at it, and it's got tons of content, but almost all of it is promotional. I'd say nominate it and see what the community thinks. --McDoobAU93 14:56, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, not existing isn't always a problem, but if the third party coverage isn't there, then it is. I'd send it to AFD, but beware of fan-based votes. Sergecross73 msg me 14:58, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Czar: Thanks. Saved me the typing. - X201 (talk) 15:19, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Minecraft Series?

What do you all think of a series on Minecraft? I think it is terribly underrepresented on Wikipedia; it is the best-selling computer video game of all time, and only has one article focused on the game itself, Minecraft. I previously proposed a Minecraft Task Force and my idea wasn't very well received, but this time I'd like to create a series. I'm thinking that many more articles are needed, including:

and much more

If you don't think this should become a series, do you think these articles should be created?

Thanks, -Newyorkadam (talk) 03:51, 1 June 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam[reply]

None of those are good article topic, as given. The concept of server play is better described in a broader article, with the main Minecraft article should simply explain where the persistent state is saved, etc. "List of blocks" immediately fails GAMEGUIDE, as does "List of enemies". "Development" focused on the version history of the game, is inappropriate, though an expanded article on the broader details of development (ala Development of Oblivion ) would be appropriate. That said, "List of Minecraft mods" *could* be one of potential as long as the only mods that are included are those recognized by third-party sources (akin to List of Source engine mods where the requirement to be on the list is a notable article or a good secondary source.). --MASEM (t) 04:19, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I completely concur with Masem. Chambr (talk) 04:38, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Future Publishing closing Edge Online and C&VG websites

MCV report that Future Publishing intend to close the websites of Edge, C&VG, and their official Xbox, PlayStation and Nintendo magazines.

It might be a good time to ensure that any references to reviews/news/articles on those sites also link to WebCite/Wayback Machine copies, or at least specify the equivalent features in the printed magazines. --Nick RTalk 10:16, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Importantly: Edge Online has a robots.txt that blocks caching at Wayback. CVG does not, so there's no rush there, but losing Edge's content is a huge issue, including material we haven't had a chance to capture. I will note that "closing" and "taking down" can be two different things (eg Television Without Pity was "closed" but its site remains open but not intereactive to remain a resource). --MASEM (t) 13:29, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Scratch that, I typo'd in Edge's site to Wayback. It's there, as well as CVG. All three "Official" mags are on there too. --MASEM (t) 13:34, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

June 2014's TFA

On June 5th, thatgamecompany will be up as that day's Featured Article. It should be noted that it is the 108th video game-related Featured article as the Featured Article, still baring the status or not. Number 100 being Sega v. Accolade back in October. Just a bit of trivia to remind us all on how much we've gone as a project. GamerPro64 03:11, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

108 , eh? Remind me not to take any Oceanic flights that day... --MASEM (t) 03:16, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And a note to all- thatgamecompany is a TFA because I just went ahead and nominated it at WP:TFAR. It only took a little bit to pull together a nomination and stick it in a "nonspecific" slot, and it got approved a few days later. You don't have to calculate points or worry about if a better article comes along anymore. If any of you have a featured article you'd like to see on the main page, if you nominate it right now you have about a 100% chance to get it on the main page. The next TFA that anyone has "called" in advance isn't until September 17. (GTA5) --PresN 03:28, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Did that for one of mine. Thanks for mentioning! Tezero (talk) 05:34, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I called for GTA V, but I wonder how it would fare since it's a very recent FA. Still, it's first in, best dressed, right? CR4ZE (t • c) 08:19, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

F1 Career Challenge

Hi WikiProject Video games. Are F1 Career Challenge and F1 Challenge '99-'02 the same game on different platforms? If so, should there be two separate articles and two entries in Formula One video games and {{Formula One games}}? Or should F1 Career Challenge just redirect to EA Sports F1 series#F1 Challenge '99-'02 and there only be one entry in the list and template? Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 07:50, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. They are the same game, one is the PC version, the career mode was added to the console versions. I've merged the two articles, as the career one was weak and should be paired with the other game for clarity. - X201 (talk) 08:13, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 11:20, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Culling down plot section

I'm gauging as to whether anybody is available to have a go at wikifying/cutting down the Plot section of Infamous Second Son. I'm working away at the other sections with the hopes of getting up to GA/FA quality, but I'm yet to finish the game and don't want anything spoiled by having to read it. To me, it's currently the biggest detractor of the article. CR4ZE (t • c) 08:21, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Source update

After taking over User:Mitaphane's magazine archive, I decided to index all of his Official U.S. PlayStation Magazines at the reference library. There's a ton of great information in these, including lots of sales stuff (the monthly charts don't include exact numbers, unfortunately). Most people don't watchlist the page in question, so I figured that I should let everyone know here.

Also, User:Electroguv just turned me on to this thread at Hardcore Gamer 101, where the poster roushimsx has uploaded scans of PC Gamer US sales charts from 1997 to 2000--with exact numbers. He's also scanned a lot of stuff related to Daikatana, StarCraft: Ghost, Diablo, Deus Ex, Bethesda and other topics. A treasure trove, to say the least. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:56, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Soundtrack listings

Taking a cue from the film project, I would recommend that - save for games using licensed music and/or when the soundtrack itself is independently notable (which would include separate music articles like Music of Final Fantasy VII)- that we do not include soundtrack listings in articles. In most cases for us, they are random titles with little significance to the game and generally weigh down the bit-count size of the article. This is not to say that discussion of the soundtrack (composure(s), etc.) should not be included, simply that the tracklist is of little use in most cases. --MASEM (t) 21:59, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You're saying we dont include the tracklist in the article unless its in a separate, more music-focused article? Lucia Black (talk) 22:26, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Basically, if the soundtrack could be a notable article per GNG or the music notability guideline, the soundtrack listing should be included, even if included on the article about the video game. If the soundtrack doesn't have stand-alone notability, like for example that of VVVVVV, then yes, the tracklist should be omitted. --MASEM (t) 22:33, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That makes sense, i support this idea. Lucia Black (talk) 22:35, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I support it as well. It seemed like soundtracks always muddied up the article I clean up, and as Masem says, they're typically just random titles without any explanation, meaning, or reference to them in the rest of the article. Sergecross73 msg me 23:01, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm neutral on the issue in general, but would it be appropriate for Tony Hawk's Underground? I'm trying to squeeze out one more GA before I leave for a bit, and in its case, a few critics remarked on the soundtrack (it even won an award for it) and mentioned specific artists. Tezero (talk) 00:41, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If it's using licensed music, that would be excluded from this idea (that is, it would be reasonable to include particularly if there's commentary on the soundtrack). --MASEM (t) 00:59, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, also because licensed music would commonly have wiki-links to the bands name and/or songs used, providing some background or context. (Opposed to the song titles from a random JRPG, which would largely be random engrish words strung together. Sergecross73 msg me 01:54, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
God, I wish you two hadn't said that; this is taking forever, ahaha. Tezero (talk) 20:51, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And to be clear, I'd see this keeping the soundtrack to Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan, than even while most of the titles are Japanese, they are notable songs by notable bands (albeit covers). --MASEM (t) 02:25, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Right. I'm referring to things more like this. Sergecross73 msg me 02:38, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm going to stand over here with my tracklists in FAs and disagree- I certainly don't like lengthy tracklists in non-music articles, but that's exactly why I fought so hard to keep the "collapsed" option on tracklists earlier this year- so it ends up taking one line of text. --PresN 03:26, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • In each of those three cases, I suspect that you could make a standalone article on the soundtrack if you wanted that would easily meet WP:N (from what I remember on general reception). Because I would consider these notable, I would not target that type of soundtrack for removal - they are fine as is. (and no, I'm not saying you have to separate it out, it makes sense to keep it together). --MASEM (t) 03:43, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmmm, I guess I would say that if you can make a proper music section in the article (you all do that... right? Right? It's not just me?), like 2+ real paragraphs, then you should be able to have a (collapsed) tracklist. --PresN 03:59, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, the one thing you'd have to add but it should be possible based on my recall of the reviews would be a paragraph about reception, and all three you have listed there are ones that I'm pretty confident you can expand on that way, which is why those soundtrack listings are fine. As someone above mentioned, this is more aimed towards random JRPG soundtracks, for example. --MASEM (t) 04:10, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I dont think its a big issue. if we can't void a tracklist in a page not-related to it (because their not notable), the tracklist can still be there, (and you can still defend the collapsibility). this applies to music sections that direct to the article to the main music section. Lucia Black (talk) 04:04, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The delightful and interminable Featured Content status thread

New month, new section, new style! Here, I'm assuming a successful FAC needs 4 supports + an image review + a source review, and an FLC needs 3 supports. The color-coding is dependent on how old the nomination is, and how much it needs. The more red, the worse off the nomination is. --PresN 18:21, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In more-or-less desperate need of reviews (last updated June 7):

  • To be quite honest I question if Anachronox will pass its FAC, considering that User:Zeality knows more about the game than I do and the GameSpot robots.txt issue has taken down some important information for the article. GamerPro64 18:32, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Lost Planet: Extreme Condition's GAR

Since Czar is on vacation and I have no clue how to add this to the announcements template, I am letting everyone know that I have placed Lost Planet: Extreme Condition up at GAR. I do not believe it to meet the GA criteria anymore, as well as noticed that the editor who placed it up for nomination hasn't edited for two years so hopefully someone else with help clean it up to todays standards. GamerPro64 21:49, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Added the GAR to the template; looks like Czar forgot to add in a GAR section to the announcements template so I fixed that. Didn't use a short {{garl}} template since it expects a formal GAR link; I'll fix that in the garl template sometime. --PresN 23:21, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
My intention was to later merge the two article review sections together (GAR & FAR) since we don't have the activity to justify separate sections. Should I go ahead with that? As for the {{garl}} stuff—I have a question about your preferred implementation on the template's talk page czar ♔ 20:42, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Answered there; yeah, makes sense to merge the two sections. --PresN 03:29, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

DK Rap

I have a problem - I can't figure out why the archiveurl reference (fourth ref) has a problem. The second ref should correspond to the fourth rep. Can someone fix it? - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 19:02, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed - you had a ref tag that cut off a couple sentences before you defined the kirkhopeinterview ref. --PresN 19:09, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep a watch please

It's that time again, low edit count user whose only edits are Edge Games, has turned up to remove all referenced material and complain that it shows Edge Games in an unfair light.

This time they're supported by a new user that apparently pays a company to watch the page for them.

Stick it on your watch list please chaps. - X201 (talk) 19:23, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Watched and warned on the talk page. --PresN 20:31, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. - X201 (talk) 08:15, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Autofailing unreleased games

Videoball (nom) does not have a release date, but the article includes all coverage of the game from development to hands-on prerelease reviews. Its GAN was quickfailed by virtue that it could not pass 3a or 5 (see WP:GACR) until it is released. Since this is a recurring concern (I've brought up a variant before), I'd like outside and informal input from the project.

My position is that a review is done on the sourcing available at the time, not off of what it could be. I recently passed Automonopoli (nom), which didn't have sections like development or even a very thick reception, but it used the sources available—and under the same logic, Videoball used all of the sources available and shouldn't be penalized for want of sources that don't exist. Likewise, we've been discussing the need for a development section in F-Zero Climax (nom) when none of us can find such coverage. (I'd review the article otherwise, but this is a gray area.) Thoughts? czar ♔ 20:07, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You go with the sources possible, and I agree with you on Automonopoli that it doesn't fail 3a just because development info doesn't exist, but it is certainly standard practice to fail unreleased media articles that are not vaporware (DukeNukemForever) on criteria 5- they are not stable. When the game comes out, the whole article has to be majorly rewritten- a reception section needs to be created/drastically changed, gameplay generally gets a drastic overhaul since so much more information becomes available, Plot generally does the same thing (not applicable in this case), and development typically expands as well. Even assuming that the game does not drastically change from pre-release to release (which is not a given for any game, and certainly outside our ability to know/predict), the article post-release is a very, very different thing than the article pre-release, which is the definition of unstable. People have previously proposed that we allow GAs for unreleased media and require a re-review when it's released, but that was considered unworkable; instead, they just aren't passed in the first place. If you want to change this, I'd recommend bringing it up at WP:GA, since it would really encompass movies and books and such as well. --PresN 20:22, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with what PresN said, just because he beat me to it. NathanWubs (talk) 20:34, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with above - as long as the release is known pending, a quickfail GA is completely reasonable. It can't hurt to have any other peer-review process done on that pre-release version of course. --MASEM (t) 21:30, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed with PresN and the above. The isue isn't necessarily sourcing but rather than article written before release is inherently unstable. It also results in an issue where the article is unduly weighted post-release to feature pre-release content and info. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 21:40, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Moved to Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations#Quickfailing unreleased media czar ♔ 21:08, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think PresN hit the nail on the head with his comments. DARTHBOTTO talk•cont 00:21, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So do I. I would be conflicted if there was no release window announced at all, because then there likely wouldn't be much chance of information being released anytime soon to render the subject unstable (realistically, the possibility of a famous person dying or getting convicted of a serious criminal offense doesn't prevent us from getting their article to GA, even if they're elderly or sketchy), but "TBA 2014" I think pushes it into the unstable zone. There will probably be quite a bit coming out before too long. Whether such instability should be part of the GA criteria is a different matter, but regardless the subject does not seem stable to me. Tezero (talk) 22:48, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

:::This sounds like a serious can of worms. There is a staggering quantity of games that don't get finished, even from AAA studios. Are we setting up a promotional engine for prospective projects where all they need is a name drop in a reliable source and they get a page? Wow. BcRIPster (talk) 21:12, 5 June 2014 (UTC) thoughts moved to GAN talk page. BcRIPster (talk) 21:22, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comment on Punch-Out!! character articles.

Recently, I went through the lot of them and took out what reception I could find that I felt was insufficient to demonstrate notability (ie, sources which state in passing comments about them, often comments that simply pertain to their difficulty - and not even to the extent of, say, "hardest boss ever"-type comments). Afterward, a number of articles appeared to no longer fulfill WP:GNG, and I merged them as a result. The articles that were merged included Mr. Sandman, Super Macho Man, Great Tiger, Bear Hugger, and Disco Kid. @Niemti: objected to both the merges and the removal of insufficient sources and reverted them in several cases. I would like to get comment from the WP:VG community, as well as users involved in the discussion of character notability, including @Czar: @Gabriel Yuji:, and @Tezero:. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 00:42, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the redirects you did. If it's difficulty to see, we can start by removing the more obvious non-RS or discussing source-by-source/statement-by-statement. Disco Kid still redirected, though. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 01:17, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed; Disco Kid was an older merge than the other articles. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 01:41, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't feel ready to give a position. The general character notability discussion is still open with nothing close to a consensus reached; bridies just stopped showing up. Tezero (talk) 01:27, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldnt count on much of a resolution. It strikes me as one of those arguments like defining the console generations succinctly - no one can ever agree on a concrete definition, so we default to the WP:GNG. Probably the same with the VG character guidelines. It may be a point of contention for you recently, but it's something that's been argued about for years and years... Sergecross73 msg me 03:14, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's the thing, though: we can't agree on how to interpret the GNG because it doesn't give explicit, concrete instructions for fictional characters. Otherwise, we wouldn't need to discuss it much at all. Tezero (talk) 14:48, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
But, we do know from not only hundreds of other video game and other fictional characters, what minimum expectations there are. Specifically for video game characters, per our guidelines, the minimum needs to be some type of reception about the characters, and ideally something about their development and creation. We also know from past issues that resolve around Niemti and vg characters, that simply being name-dropped in "top 10" lists is rarely sufficient for meeting the GNG, since that requires "significant coverage in multiple sources". --MASEM (t) 15:11, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly: that's just a minimum. There's still a colossal amount of ambiguity and disagreement about how much over that is needed. How many sources is enough for "multiple"? How much coverage in each one is "significant"? How much can passing mentions pad the notability of something that's otherwise close to being notable, but not quite there? What I've been trying to do with these discussions is come to some kind of objective standard, but it looks like that might be all for nothing. And using the existence or nonexistence of other character articles, if you're not citing actual, preserved discussions about whether to keep them, is OTHERSTUFF. Tezero (talk) 15:59, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Is there something outstanding to which I should've replied? Must've just missed it if so. bridies (talk) 11:53, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Merge was completely appropriate. Fictional characters have to follow the GNG and these were nowhere close. --MASEM (t) 02:35, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You did the right thing with the merges that you made. If not even for the merges. The removal of the sources that clearly are not reliable was a good thing. Wikipedia after all is clearly against using bad sources for the sake of using a source. Niemti once again is just being Niemte *shrugs* NathanWubs (talk) 06:44, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The sources were mostly reliable. The articles were crappy written, though. So I rewrote them. Like that. Like that. (Also, reading throught it again.) For Disco Kid, there just wasn't much to work with. --Niemti (talk) 07:29, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On one hand, several of the sources were sketchy at best. Cracked is blatantly not an RS, so I question why you mass-reverted my edits and ignored all changes. On the other hand, most of the rest of the sources said very little of value. This is why they were merged in the first place. Articles like these are why articles that do fulfill GNG are getting targeted. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 07:49, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Cracked: it's not about any facts, it's a clearly fake interview and is noted as such an opinion (and I don't even like the today's Cracked and their rampant social justice warring). All the other Punch Out need to be rewritten, too: major problems include massively tl;dr lead sections with randomly repeated parts of reception and other unimportant stuff, generally awkward writing, and overlinking everywhere; minor problems include lack of linking and/or italics for many sources (example). Oh, and one more touch (did I mention how awkwardly written these articles are? "MeriStation stated that unlike the previous battle with Bear Hugger, which they state did not require much effort." didn't even make any sense at all). The end effect of clean up rewrite (without adding anything new): Great Tiger - if anyone's still going to say things like "Fictional characters have to follow the GNG and these were nowhere close" they're just being dishonest and/or fundamentally biased against the very existence of such articles at all, wanting to rid of them instead of creating more and contyinously expand Wikipedia as it should be. --Niemti (talk) 07:55, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  1. I know that you subscribe to a sub-Wikipedian standard for RSes, but your view on RSes is explicitly not acceptable. Saying it many times wastes my time and yours because it's factually incorrect. Your argument necessitates that every single opinion ever uttered on the Internet can be used. RSes is not just for facts.
  2. Besides the fact that your article editing skills are not nearly good enough to be criticizing others', I'm curious the relevancy of article quality in a discussion about article reliability. The fact that your responses are almost entirely based around off-topic discussion tells us a lot about your argument. So please, do us all a favour and talk about GNG in a discussion about GNG. Much in the same way I don't talk about my favourite foods in this discussion.
Articles that I created in the first place are articles that I clearly wish to have removed from Wikipedia? Please make arguments with more thought in the future. But since you used Great Tiger, let's assess... The first two reception sources merely say a "favourite of the series." An empty and thoughtless reception that tells us nothing about the character. Sarcastic Gamer is not identified as an RS (and no, opinions are not exempt from having to be RSes). The GamePro source is a listicle that makes a brief comment on him not being politically correct and discusses his combat abilities. The next one is the stupidest source ever. 10th best headwear? The quote isn't even reception! By the way, you'll have to explain the quality of explaining a function of his turban in the reception. Operation Sports is not identified as an RS and only discusses him as a difficult character in passing. IGN basically only calls him memorable (I don't really get the use of a semicolon after that either; the next line doesn't continue the previous thought, it's merely the same publisher). The second IGN source is a listicle that again focuses only on combat ability and his role in Punch-Out!!. MTV Multiplayer and The Daily Sentinel merely call him difficult, while The Globe and Mail does the same thing and merely makes an observation of things that aren't even that outlandish. The Onion is a brief mention of him in a general Punch-Out!! parody, as is ESPN's humour article. The Escapist, GamesRadar, Crispy Gamer, and Bitmob are the only sources that successfully demonstrate serious notability. While none of the articles are explicitly about Great Tiger, they do discuss him to a non-trivial degree. Broken record perhaps, but Cracked.com doesn't get a free pass as an RS. It's a very bad source to use. Do not imply standards in your editing where there are none.
As you are the only editor among several who feels that these articles pass the GNG, I will be redirecting them. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 09:08, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Actually you apparently didn't know, but I do subscribe to Wikipedian standard for RSes. Including for merely opinion things.[1][2] And now you know. I'm glad I could help you fix this misconception. Godspeed. --Niemti (talk) 09:31, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And this explains what, exactly? It explains to me that your argument of "it's an opinion" is inconsistent. Why is Cracked different? Sounds like the only difference between it and gaminrealm is that one isn't powered by Wordpress. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 09:44, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Cracked is not a small Wordpress-powered amatuer blog run by a couple of black friends who couldn't even write teir "About" properly. Cracked is a continuation of looong (half century) standing magazine, professionally run, with a very high Alexa ranking of 845. A difference is obvious. And I don't even like Cracked. --Niemti (talk) 10:47, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The majority of Cracked's content is designed to spoof and provoke. They may be incorporating factual details and some reasonable opinion, but the manner of their writing immediately invalidates it as a reliable source since you can't tell easily fact from fiction, or honest opinion from baiting statements. They may be a premiere comedy magazine, but for being an RS? BS. --MASEM (t) 15:18, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Old, popular, etc. do not have much value in this situation, where the article as featured on Great Tiger is user-created (and not even an active user; it's the user's only article). Professional that is not. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 10:55, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if it's a random user-blog thing or whatever, as you say, then of course it shouldn't be used in any situation unless the author was otherwise notable somehow. I just checked and it seems it was a regular article actually, but I'm not going to defend the current Cracked and their typical social-justice whining (this article is about it too, what a surprise), so I'm going to give it to you and it's out. --Niemti (talk) 11:19, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As a note, I would appreciate it if assistance could exist to ensure that any demonstrated consensus by the end of this discussion was maintained. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 09:56, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've called out Punch Out character articles before. No sources offer significant coverage of the subject. The reception sections are culled from bits and pieces for reviews of the game, or pieces on the characters as a whole. So instead of criticism of racial stereotyping being found in the Punch-Out!! or List of Punch-Out!! characters articles, it is split across every single standalone article. Our (Wikipedia as a whole) character articles are mostly dreck, they take snippets from listicles and reviews so they have an excuse for existence, then proceed to pad out the article with enormous amounts of fan service cruft. So yes, Punch Out characters should be merged, but it's the same crap everywhere. - hahnchen 10:26, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe it's conducive to the discussion to be so utterly critical. As I would tell Niemti, tone it down a notch. Anyway, I agree to an extent. The majority of Punch-Out!! character articles are in a state, as are a number of other character articles. I do want to make clear that I oppose the idea that all Punch-Out!! character articles are non-notable. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 10:32, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Great minds... bridies (talk) 11:53, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Couple of points that've been made elsewhere need addressed (again): first, deletion, merging and redirecting are not the same things (yet again...). An article can pass an AfD, it can meet the GNG, yet still be merged. Second, comic books and star wars are not "wiki-wide standards". Comics, anime and god knows what else are other niche topics which attract pop fandom. Go canvass some natural science and medicine editors and see what they think of these articles. These points have now been made in detail, by multiple editors across multiple discussions. Consensus couldn't be plainer. bridies (talk) 12:45, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • To the original question, I also agree with these merges. Super Macho Man#Reception could not be a better example of a pile of incidental coverage. If a point is to be made about stereotypes, it is not in quoting each character's one sentence in respective articles but in treating the characters as a whole (which is what the articles are about—not the individuals). I'd also say that Great Tiger has more of a fighting chance (rimshot) than the others for its own article, though I still lean towards merge. {{la}} links since it's hard to find what has and hasn't been merged:
Mr. Sandman (Punch-Out!!) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Super Macho Man (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Great Tiger (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Bear Hugger (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Disco Kid (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
czar ♔ 16:13, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just chiming back in to say Bear Hugger was full of false/falsified content. Like that was just blatantly false, and [3] isn't described him as "one of the wackiest opponents you'll ever see", the quote is manipulated and the sense is completely different. I don't know who wrote it (I have my sneaky suspiction, and it can be checked), but it changed my perception of this particular article and I think I'll have it merged. --Niemti (talk) 16:52, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and this falsified quote wasn't even from what GameSpy wrote, it was from a text that was some sort of adverting/press release, used also by IGN, G4tv, etc. So you guys better check out who pushes bullshit like that. --Niemti (talk) 16:56, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hey guys, I just checked for you who writes falsified things like that: [4] (look for "anyone would recognize him" and "one of the wackiest opponents you'll ever see" and then check in the links what really is there). You're welcome! --Niemti (talk) 17:13, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh no! How dare he change "some of the wackiest opponents you'll ever see: Bear Hugger, Piston Hurricane, Bald Bull, Mr. Sandman, and Super Macho Man" to saying that Bear Hugger is "one of the wackiest opponents you'll ever see." He shouldn't have quoted the "one", but that doesn't make it "falsified" and "manipulated". Although, it was what Gamespy wrote- IGN owns Gamespy; they share a database. G4TV does not use that quote; no other real sites come up when you search Google for what I quoted above (without quotes). We all get that NARH is your latest enemy, but do try to keep your snide remarks correct. --PresN 17:32, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's falsification of the quote (a quote in quote marks), offering a completely false impression. "G4TV does not use that quote" - haha, yeah, except at http://www.g4tv.com/games/arc/46544/super-punch-out/ (taken from the same ad/press release/whatever, and including the first 2 sentences that GameSpy cut). But nice try. Almost. Try to keep your snide remarks correct. --Niemti (talk) 19:42, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The word "falsify" has an inherent value to it that suggests malicious intent, that I intentionally manipulated the content of the article to make notability seem stronger. So watch it when you're making bad faith accusations against your fellow Wikipedian, and watch it when you're making a discussion about notability... not about notability.
Anyway, since consensus clearly is in favour of merging, I think we should go ahead with the merges (sans Great Tiger, with whom I am grasping onto for dear life just because stricter-Czar seemed to see a gleam of light from it). - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 20:03, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, if Niemti's semi-relevant rantings are the only opposition, I say go for it. (I support the merges as well.) Sergecross73 msg me 20:06, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I say https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Super_Macho_Man&oldid=611841198 is a fine article that crosses WP:GNG requirements easily. Which is unlike Bear Hugger after I actually checked the sources and found out they're either largely just bogus or ridicalously insignificant and passing mentions (like this article said about another character "Weighs as much as: Bear Hugger" and that as seriously all), besides all the "he drink syrup so Canadian lol"; the original article gave men an entirely wrong impression. So, I'd like to hear about the "other venues" that will allow me to break it out of an elitist separatist clique and reach out to general Wikipedia community of editors. Where are they? --Niemti (talk) 21:13, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You're quoting the words "other venues" as though someone said that. I'm sorry that you don't want to work with the project. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 21:28, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It was me at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Punch-Out!! characters, which I closed as an inappropriate use of AfD. Other venues for non-deletion discussions that pertain to the project rather than individual articles (off the top of my head) would include the village pump, other media-related WikiProjects that include fictional characters, and a general RfC possibly listed as a centralized discussion. czar ♔ 05:50, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
General RfC maybe? I believe you have some acquaintance with those… bridies (talk) 22:30, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And this is why I say let's wrap things up and do the merges. Niemti probably has a point in there somewhere, but it's lost amongst the ragey ranting and the off-topic tangents. No ones going to be persuaded by these tactics, it'll just leave people confused or upset... Sergecross73 msg me 22:56, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, close it and do the merges. Consensus is merge one editors ranting should not stop such a thing. NathanWubs (talk) 09:37, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A lack of African video games?

I feel like too many people in my country know English-language and Japanese video games. That's a bias. Similarly, too many Japanese know German instead of Afrikaans, another bias. I think the reason why we haven't covered most non-Japanese/non-English language media is the global digital divide. I wonder of the South African video game industry's existence, and at least someone would research South African video games. }IMr*|(60nna)I{ 14:47, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a piece on the most prevalent South African indie developers; I don't know of any "mainstream" ones. And that country's probably by far the most active in its continent for video game development; maybe there are some developers in Botswana, Egypt, and Morocco or something, but that's about it. It'd be an interesting topic to find material on, but remember that Wikipedia can only cover topics that reliable sources do. If there aren't any (or "enough") covering certain African games, it's not our fault if we can't cover them. (Well, it is, but only because of our standards, not any bias against Africa.) Tezero (talk) 16:08, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Minecraft comes from a guy in Sweden and sold over 35 million copies. The nation a game comes from doesn't matter. If its developers have any sense, they'll translate it to the languages spoken by those in the most profitable markets, and have the same chance of getting noticed as everyone else. Dream Focus 18:20, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The point is that reliable sources could exist which document the games but only in non-English languages. Just because the game or its coverage isn't in English doesn't mean we shouldn't write about it. Saying a game isn't notable because the developers didn't translate the game into English is hardly accurate. Sam Walton (talk) 20:19, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There's an article called Video gaming in South Africa. --Mika1h (talk) 18:35, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect it's just a case of you cover what you know. There are quite a few game developers in Africa. But PC is a rare commodity whereas Mobile is the predominant computing platform and absolutely huge there. Mobile is actually where the majority of development is occurring and there is an inherent bias in the US to down downplay mobile gaming as somehow not on par with PC/console gaming. Here are some links though Top 10 African game developers, The growing business of African mobile gaming, 8 startups taking the African gaming scene to the next level. BcRIPster (talk) 18:41, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I also wanted to note, the biggest problem stifling the African market has to do with financial transaction management, and this has been a huge barrier for lots of companies, not just gaming businesses. Mobile is one of the few spaces where there is cutting edge thought around new ways to implement payment systems happening. So, beyond just plane market penetration by the devices, they are also one of the few ways people can actually conduct financial exchanges... so you go where the money is. BcRIPster (talk) 18:46, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As long as we can source it, "Video games in (Country/region)" (outside of NA, Europe, and SE Asia) would be great topics. And remember that sources don't have to be in English, only that we are able to reliably translate them into English, for en.wiki. --MASEM (t) 20:15, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I already know plenty of European indie games like Minecraft. Well good job finding references about African video games. I'm happy! (=D) }IMr*|(60nna)I{ 21:32, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
When you made your edit summary, I read it all in my watchlist as "A lack of African video games? Good." - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 21:35, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"A lack of African video games?" is the section title, followed by a colon. "Good" is the expression that I feel happy for people researching the African video game industry. I already do play some South African video games, and I know plenty of European video games like Minecraft. However, now I know Africa has an existing video game industry. I remember looking up "south african video game industry" back in 2011, but I like this discussion. }IMr*|(60nna)I{ 21:54, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

LEVEL

Does anybody know how to get scans from this Czech journal? Their "making of" section is a gold mine of info on retro games and I'd like that to work in our favor. Specifically, I need scans of their Monkey Island 2 feature from issue 194. Electroguv (talk)

GameSpot broken references issue resolved

First timer here, Just wanted to Thank Odie5533 and Torchiest for clarifying what really was happening with the robots.txt implemented (i.e. blocking all the site data archived but not deleting it) and where to bring up the issue (in this thread). I was able to piece together a fix based on Internet Archive's exclusion policy and posted it in said thread, within a day the solution was implemented and the archived content was accessible again! I'm posting this here in case other sites (gaming or otherwise) suffer from a similar fate. —Machinesmith talkedits — Preceding undated comment added 22:33, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • I just checked to verify this and you are right. And I want to say thank you! Now that there isn't anymore issues with robots.txt for GameSpot articles, I think the FAC that I have up might stand a chance. GamerPro64 22:52, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Great work on this.
Also, we probably should have a list of known "sites on the edge", where either they are known to be shutting down or that have had questionable archiving/link policies in the past, such that - not so much in general day-to-day but for GA/FA , and even possibly for A-class review - that these are all affirmed to be a webcite or have archive.org links. --MASEM (t) 23:06, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This is really great news. I was despairing at the prospect of sources like Knee Deep in a Dream being lost forever. Huge props to the people who made this happen. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:23, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

E3 2014

So E3 is about to start up again on the 9th which means that there will be an influx of new articles involving new or existing IPs, new information about announced games, or cancelled projects. And seeing what just got cancelled, it's gonna be an interesting year. So long The Last Guardian. [5]. GamerPro64 05:49, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A Sony rep just countered that claim [6]. IGN jumping the gun yet again. --MASEM (t) 06:04, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
At least we won't need to worry about Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts III for once. They're confirmed as no shows until unspecified events later this year. --ProtoDrake (talk) 06:15, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
We should also keep an eye to make sure people don't try to add info about susposed leaks before the show starts either (X's full name being Xenomech saga, the alleged picture of Nintendo's E3 booth showing a poster for something called Mario Maker, etc).--69.157.253.74 (talk) 18:23, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And a very silly fake poster about a next-gen collection of the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy. I'll be watching the pre-show myself tomorrow night from 5:30 until (hopefully) 2:00 AM UK time. --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:34, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Mirror's Edge 2 is being teased by EA today, eyeballs there might help. --MASEM (t) 18:25, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone, feel free to contact me if you need any help during the E3 hectic times. I'll be around a lot, and probably more quick to protect page due to all the craziness that usually occurs. Sergecross73 msg me 18:31, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I PC'ed E3 2014 but I'm not sure that was the best option; I don't wanna be elitist and prevent useful IP editing, but I don't want to be flooded by the vandals either. If the PC remains and some of you aren't autoreviewed let us know. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 18:46, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How short is a GA video game allowed to be?

There is a GAN, Dishaster and it is very short. How short can an article be before it is ineligible for GA status. wirenote (talk) 22:15, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There's no hard limit, beyond that notability is met, best by having a reception section and possibly a development section. --MASEM (t) 22:20, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Notability is not actually required for GAN, though it should be kept in mind so time isn't wasted. As for the original question, I recently passed Automonopoli (nom). Sometimes the extra sourcing isn't there. I didn't take the Dishaster or the other one because I wasn't sure what other hidden sourcing might exist that should be included for the completeness criteria. czar ♔ 22:27, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clarification. I'll review the article. BTW, @Czar: I added some comments to the Ziggurat GAN. wirenote (talk) 23:33, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Request for outside input on Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire

User:Ryulong has been aggressively reverting and edit warring to his preferred version on Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire in regards to new information about the games being added. Please see the discussion at Talk:Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire#"CoroCoro leaks". I would like to include outside perspectives to help resolve this content dispute, because it appears I cannot get anywhere alone. Artichoker[talk] 00:10, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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