Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2024 CONCACAF Champions League

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus which defaults to keep, which is the slightly stronger side of the see saw. There are valid points of view to keep, and to redirect. The tipping factor to keep is the qualifying tournament that begins in July of this year as noted in the penultimate !vote and the nom's willingness to withdraw if the AfD was still running on June 1. We do not need two more weeks when this has already run nearly a month. Star Mississippi 03:12, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2024 CONCACAF Champions League

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WP:TOOSOON. 2023 CONCACAF Champions League is still a redirect, and I do not see any evidence that the qualifying for 2024 is started. Can consider a redirect to CONCACAF Champions League or draftify or delete directly Hhkohh (talk) 12:25, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:30, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:32, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

SALT Article will be needed surely? I would assume admin lock on it, till it's time to get it sorted. Govvy (talk) 15:53, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify - far too early. Giant Snowman 16:39, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The 2024 edition is the first under a new format and as such there is enough content and coverage from reliable, secondary sources to support the article's existence. BLAIXX 18:02, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to CONCACAF Champions League. The redirection can be undone later, thus preserving the current state and editor attributions. It's WP:TOOEARLY to even move it to draft-space as it could be subject to WP:G13 if not maintained. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 19:00, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - the only reason this article was created (over a year ago!) is because of the expansion of the number of teams from 16 to 27 teams, and the very different qualifying procedures from 2023 (and before). Alternatively, much of new format and qualification information (which is most of the post, other than the placeholders) could be Merged to CONCACAF Champions League#Expansion (from 2024) rather than just redirecting. There's no doubt the material itself is notable - the only question is where to put it.

BTW, 2023 CONCACAF Champions League qualifications have already begun, with the qualification of both Club León and Atlas F.C. in 2021, through reaching the finals of the Apertura 2021 Liga MX final phase. I'm not sure why the 2023 article hasn't been created already - normally it's created around September of the year that the first teams qualify (which were September butors to the page, User:C23J and User:Blaixx weren't notified. Nfitz (talk) 20:07, 24 April 2022 (UTC)2021) by User:Chanheigeorge, who is MIA.[reply]

Also, I note that two significant contributors to the page, User:C23J and User:Blaixx weren't notified. Nfitz (talk) 20:07, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Blaixx and Nfitz: Thanks for inputting. If just the new format to create new season articles, WP:TOOSOON is still applied to me. Just put new format into CONCACAF Champions League is better Hhkohh (talk) 23:53, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Seems an unnecessary effort, given the article would normally be created in about 5 months, and has already been around for more than 15 months. Not to mention work moving the new qualification details to CONCACAF Champions League and then moving it back again. The standard for TOOSOON is that there's enough independent coverage of it to confirm. This is not the case here, with international coverage in Sports Illustrated [1], Marca [2], and La Nación [3], among others. Nfitz (talk) 01:32, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think these format change will meet independence Hhkohh (talk) 05:44, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How, User:Hhkohh, are those three newspapers - from three different countries - not WP:INDEPENDENT of the subject (per WP:GNG)? I'm genuinely confused here. Nfitz (talk) 07:45, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

yes, source meet WP:INDEPENDENT Hhkohh (talk) 09:04, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep or redirect Normally I would say that a redirect would be appropriate, given how far out this competition will take place. The issue I see is that there will be no neat way to merge a lot of the qualifying information into the parent article. It does seem strange to me that we would have an article on 2024 when we do not yet have one on 2023, but I am sure that is an issue easily fixed. I'm not sure I agree that the format changes alone qualify the tournament for an individual article, I just don't see a clean way of merging a lot of that information. Jay eyem (talk) 03:34, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fenix down (talk) 22:43, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Less Unless (talk) 17:54, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment What are the thoughts on merging the information into the parent article and redirecting? I'm still not convinced this yet requires its own article and that the information can be redirected for the moment (especially once we get the 2023 article up and running). Plus now that the 2022 edition has ended I see no reason we cannot start the 2023 article given that qualification has begun. Thoughts? Jay eyem (talk) 21:39, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- No objection with merging Hhkohh (talk) 00:30, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - I just don't see the point. Following the past pattern, we'd be creating the article in about 4 months or so anyhow, and the information in here is useful and unique. And surely going to be changing as individual nations qualification systems are clarified. Nfitz (talk) 06:55, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - That's a bit where I am hung up, as well. From a procedural perspective I do think it is too soon and that the information can be integrated into the parent article, but I don't necessarily think it would be common sense to redirect it now only to undo the redirect in a few months. It might be worth merging some of the information over anyway, even if this article does end up being kept, it would just require some work to do so. Jay eyem (talk) 15:32, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The format change warrants creating a separate article a bit earlier than usual. Sounder Bruce 08:06, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The qualification for this starts with Liga MX Apertura in two months (July 1st) and end in November. There's no sense in moving or deleting this whole page when it will definitely need to be here in 6 months when Apertura finishes. It also serves as a benchmark for the tournament itself and having an independent page for the new format helps interested information seekers get what they need.--Lloyd2539alex (talk) 15:27, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note If the AfD do not close on 1 June, I will withdraw this AfD because 1 June will not WP:TOOSOON Hhkohh (talk) 15:35, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.