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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. BLP1E applies. will redirecty to american idol when deleted Spartaz Humbug! 06:12, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alexis Cohen

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Alexis Cohen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

I think this is a case of recent news-itis. Alexis' death got some coverage from major news sources, but is that really enough for an entire article? The general rule has always been that auditioners do not get articles unless they attain sourcable notability. William Hung is the best example of this. In this case, all of the sources are regarding Alexis' death. The article describes the "viral" nature of her first video but there is no source stating that. And really, most "bad" Idol auditions gets lots of YouTube views. That doesn't mean they deserve articles. Also, I have a problem with having this article when actual finalists like Alexis Grace do not (per AfD). We need a high standard with Idol and I don't think this reaches it. User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 15:32, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Nuetral: The article mentions several tv appearances. If those can be identified and they meet the criteria for WP:MUSICBIO 12 or if the video has more news attention other than the death articles and it meets WP:WEB or if she has been mentioned in a news article about her Animal rights activism, then I am for keeping. If not, I am for deleting.--TParis00ap (talk) 15:41, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect: per CrazyC83. I think an article for noteworthy auditioneers not deserving seperate articles is a good idea, such as Noteworthy American Idol auditions.--TParis00ap (talk) 17:08, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC maintains a thriving, worldwide news service, of course it's going to report deaths. I hate to break WP:WAX, but does that mean that these people deserve articles[2]? DJ 23:40, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not a good indicator. For one thing, "Alexis Cohen" isn't that uncommon of a name. For another, many are those are mirrors. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 14:51, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Basic google search isn't a good indicator, but google trends shows the frequency of google searches over time. The only spikes on her here are for her auditions, and her death. The rest is flat line. And she's undetectable when you add in some other people,... Dr. Cash (talk) 20:26, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete though the person doesn't meet the requirements of WP:BIO, in violation of WP:BLP1E. ApprenticeFan talk contribs 01:18, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - does not meet the threshold of notability. The BBC has also reported on deaths like people who die windsurfing in a hurricane because they are shocking. Deaths reported by the BBC do not necessarily mean notability, as WP:NOTE requires multiple sources that deal with the subject in a non-trivial way. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 01:22, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I remember her after all this time whereas I have completely forgotten about many contestant finalists. When she came out after confronting the judges, they had to put all these "American Idol" blockers on her mouth and her fingers and her buttocks countless times, sometimes 3-4 at the same time. It was classic comedy, better than Eddie Murphy and Cosby. I think Letterman should have hired her to shout whatever came to her mind. This girl had really the guts to express her mind, and you know what, she was right about what she said. Keep the page. She is as significant as can be. werldwayd (talk) 02:17, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Please see WP:ILIKEIT; just because she made you laugh or you admired her tenacity does not mean that she was notable. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 04:36, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Er....how? DJ 07:05, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to American Idol (season 7) - not notable enough for her own article, but people seeing news about her death will probably search for her. Therefore redirect to American Idol (season 7), where she first became 'famous'. GiantSnowman 09:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Makes perfect sense. Not worthy an article of her own as she falls below the notability threshold (albeit by not much), but it is worth creating the redirect because people might still search for her name. McMarcoP (talk) 13:33, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep. She was something of a notable internet meme after her melt-down and there has been extensive media coverage. That said, my support is pretty weak and I wouldn't be hurt if this ended up as a redirect to American Idol (season 7). youngamerican (wtf?) 13:13, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep her death was even reported on in my country on the other side of the world. that tells it all. atleast for me. Keep.--Judo112 (talk) 14:01, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - She is really in the news now, but will she stay there long after her death? That is the question. Current news mentions warrant an article for sure, but that will likely change in the short term, so it is hard to take a position. Redirecting to the season article is probably not the best course of action as there is no mention of her on the target page (that is typically for semi-finalists and finalists who have disappeared from the scene). Maybe a new article could be created, something like Noteworthy American Idol auditions? CrazyC83 (talk) 14:05, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • That would open up a big ball of wax I'm not sure we want to open up. It'd be ripe for vandalism and spurious additions. Look at how hard it is to maintain the main AI articles during the season. I suspect one like that would be worse.
  • Delete With all due respect to her family, she's not a celebrity. She only appeared on one of the audition shows of season 7 of American Idol, for less than 2 minutes, of which she failed to qualify. The only reason that her death was even reported, was because someone in the MSM recognized her name out of obscurity and thought that their website might get some more ad clicks or impressions from reporting on the death of ***someone*** that was even somewhat remotely connected with the popular American Idol show. Other than that, she hasn't really accomplished anything worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. Dr. Cash (talk) 14:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Additional Comment While individually, Google trends shows three reasonable-sized spikes -- one each for her appearances on Idol, and one small one coming up for her death (plus to unexplained really small ones) -- she's mostly a flat-line with nothing else coming up. Add Kris Allen and David Cook to the google trends report, and she disappears entirely,... Dr. Cash (talk) 15:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment You may well be right in your general summary, but one small point: her death was reported by the BBC, a public-funded service in Britain, and therefore their site carries no adverts. So that cannot have been the reason for reporting for at least one outlet. EJBH (talk) 23:35, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The question we really have to ask is, is anything going to be able to be added to this article besides where she lived, what she was in school for, the fact that she was an animal rights "activist", two failed American Idol auditions of which she failed to qualify, and her death? While there are more reports in the media about her death, most of these only have the information we have that's already there. They're not reporting anything else because there simply isn't anything else interesting to report. In one month or one year's time, she'll be forgotten and nothing new will come out about her, and this article, if it even exists, will just go off into the vagueness of forgotten wikipedia articles,... Sad, but true. Dr. Cash (talk) 02:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and Redirect Probably should go without saying, but when I said "delete" above, I intended to imply that a redirect be placed there pointing to the season 7 page. Dr. Cash (talk) 15:25, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - She is well known enough due to her imfamous appearance on American Idol, and the manner of her death is reason enough to keep the article. Lou72JG 15:05, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Manner of death? Is Wikipedia covering all deaths by hit and run these days? Dr. Cash (talk) 15:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
We can bend this in anyway we want to it doesnt change the fact that here is enough sourcing and notability for Alexis Cohen to let her have a Wikipedia article.--Judo112 (talk) 19:01, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Please see WP:MUSICBIO and WP:BLP1E regarding the established criteria for notability of musicians. She doesn't meet any of those criteria. Dr. Cash (talk) 20:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: We're not debating what to do with Deaths in 2009, so it's irrelevant. This page is for voting on keeping or deleting Alexis Cohen. Dr. Cash (talk) 20:28, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note that AFD is not a vote, it is a discussion. And as you seem more involved in the debate and on the Deaths in 2009 article talk page, and who has a vendetta against the entry of this individuals death on the article that resulted in you edit warring with multiple editors, I would advise against starting an argument for your point of view on the matter here. However, the entry on that article is relevant considering this is the same person whose death is noted on the Deaths of 2009 article. My comment merely stated that while Alexis Cohen isn't notable for their own article, they should just be remain as an entry on the Deaths of 2009 article (given the notable publicity of her death), where this argument began. Also, don't keep replying to every comment on this AFD, lest you look like a dick. — ℳℴℯ ε 16:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, it seems like you're being a bigger dick. I was merely pointing out that this AFD is discussing the merits of whether Alexis Cohen should have a wikipedia article or not. The debate over whether she should be listed on the Deaths in 2009 page is irrelevant to this discussion, and is to be determined later. While I may have briefly reverted her yesterday a few times with another editor, I am no longer propogating that edit war. Dr. Cash (talk) 18:23, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think you mean propagating. And again, the discussion there is relevant to the Deaths in 2009 article, because that is where it began and because this is the same person, and you cannot change that. I said delete the biography but to keep the mention on the article. Usually, a link will be unlinked or deleted all together from other articles that it was on prior to the AFD, so I am adding my opinion on the things it links to, as this person has, I believe, maintained some notability to be mentioned elsewhere. Do we call others comments irrelevant on AFDs who suggest a merge to the American Idol page too, because it isn't directly involved with the AFD at hand? *rolls eyes* — ℳℴℯ ε 21:09, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever. It seems like we both agree that the article should be deleted/redirected to season 7, so let's just leave it at that. I still think that listing her on Deaths in 2009 is just feeding the media circus, which seems silly, but I really don't care about whether she has a listing over there or not anymore,... Dr. Cash (talk) 19:49, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I think the consensus has been that people who appear multiple times on Idol are marginally notable, but this person has also gained independent news coverage. Bearian (talk) 23:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Top 11 AI contestant Alexis Grace also has attained independent media coverage, but her article has already been deleted. Dr. Cash (talk) 02:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strange. I know there was another AFD for that article which resulted in its deletion. I am not sure where that is archived? Dr. Cash (talk) 19:49, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You meant Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alexis Grace (2nd nomination). Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 21:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and redirect title to American Idol page. The only reason her death is even mentioned in newspapers is because she was briefly on television. If her original audition was not enough to get her a Wikipedia article, then unfortunately her death is not either. ... discospinster talk 16:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Redirect (and keep on Recent Deaths). The arguments presented here for deletion make sense. I originally thought that notability was met from appearing on two seasons of Idol, combined with various internet and other show appearances, but I have to bow to logic on this one. Even if kept right now, I believe this (AfD) discussion would probably crop up at some point in the future when current media attention subsides. I strongly feel that information on this person should exist somewhere due to the media/internet coverage, but am unsure as to where (the Idol season articles seem to generally list semi-finalists and above). Other failed-but-notorious contestants have been mentioned on the season summary sections of the main Idol page itself, so maybe that's an option. I realize this makes my opinion rather flaky, but I can't seem to express it any other way. Hopefully regular editors of Idol pages will have a better idea of where to put the information if it does get redirected. *Vendetta* (whois talk edits) 05:30, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Edit: I see above someone has already suggested a new "Noteworthy Auditions" article; I think that's a great idea. *Vendetta* (whois talk edits) 05:33, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - creation of previously deleted material with the addition of her death, which does not in itself make her notable. - fchd (talk) 07:10, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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