Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Friedman (composer)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Enough coverage out there. Malinaccier (talk) 00:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

David Friedman (composer)

Delete: fails WP:COMPOSER (none of his compositions have achieved any prominence) and does not appear to meet the rest of WP:MUSIC through his lesser roles (conductor/vocal contractor/music director) in more prominent ventures. Current sole citation is to composer's WP:SELFPUB songbook. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 04:55, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- I'^mperator 14:24, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Did you try looking for sources before nominating? Fences and windows (talk) 18:54, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Now, I know these quotes are on his website, but there's clear notability if this checks out:[1]. Also see [2]. A composer of a platinum selling song would be notable, yes? Fences and windows (talk) 19:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It seems he's written songs for Barry Manilow, Diana Ross, Kathie Lee Gifford, and Dolly Parton. "He was composer/lyricist of "Your Love," sung by Diana Ross, which won the 1992 MAC Award for Song of the Year; "Help Is on the Way," which earned him the 1994 MAC Award for Comedy Song of the Year; and "My Simple Christmas Wish," which garnered the 1994 Johnny Mercer Award and the 1995 Bistro Award for Songwriter of the Year".[3] Sources: Seattle Gay News interviewed him:[4]. Review of a show of his songs in the New York Times:[5]. Interview with Talking Broadway:[6]. 200 more news stories here: http://news.google.co.uk/archivesearch?um=1&ned=uk&hl=en&num=100&q=%22David+Friedman%22+composer&cf=all. Fences and windows (talk) 22:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

MAC Award redirects to the Missouri Athletic Club Hermann Trophy (nor is its 'Song of the Year' listed in Song of the Year), so I doubt if the above awards are "major". "'Your Love,' sung by Diana Ross" does not rate a mention at the Your Love dab. None of the other awards or songs mentioned above rate an article either. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 05:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong MAC Award, there is a world outside Wikipedia redirects. See here:[7]. These awards have got 200+ news hits:http://news.google.co.uk/archivesearch?q=%22MAC+Awards%22+cabaret&btnG=Search&um=1&ned=uk&hl=en&num=100&scoring=a Your Love was on Ross' One Woman: The Ultimate Collection, a UK number 1 album. Rather than cherry-picking arguments against what I found, why not do some of your own searching? Fences and windows (talk) 18:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So 'MAC' = Manhattan Association of Cabarets and Clubs. Hardly prestigious. WP:GOOGLEHITS do not make an award "major". 'Your Love' was one of three recently-recorded/previously-unreleased pieces at the end of this compilation album (giving some impression that they were 'filler' -- and a strong impression that they weren't the album's selling point -- which were the earlier major hits at the start of the album). Why should I waste time on a composer who nobody outside the Manhatten cabaret scene has heard of, and whose other main claim to fame is for providing filler material for more notable artists? Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 18:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion is supposed to be a last resort for articles that can't be rescued. It's not a waste of time to see if we can avoid losing a biographical article. You're supposed to make a good faith effort to look for reliable sources before deleting. I didn't say the award appeared in lots of "Google hits", I said it appeared in a lot of news articles; there's a difference. Hartford Courant called the MAC Awards "the top cabaret award in New York City",[8] New Jersey's Record said they are "cabaret's honor roll"[9]. Fences and windows (talk) 23:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Seems notable as a conductor of Disney films etc, although these bits not referenced. Johnbod (talk) 12:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. In addition to the articles and interviews I found above, here's some more coverage:

An article in the LA Times about a song commission in 1992:[10]
An article in Philadelphia Inquirer in 2004 about Chasing Nicolette, for which he wrote the music:[11]
Review of the revue of Friedman's music, Listen to My Heart, in Broadway World[12], another in '*Milwaukee Journal Sentinel[13], another in Dallas News, which notes that "David Friedman's songs pop up on nearly every new cabaret show or album these days"[14], another in Greater Tulsa Reporter,[15] and an interview with him about it in The British Theatre Guide.[16]
An obituary of Nancy LaMott in the New York Times notes that Friedman was central to her career:[17]. That claim is confirmed in New York Magazine:[18] and Billboard[19], in an article about him releasing her work posthumously.
Review of Stunt Girl in the Seattle Times, which Friedman wrote the music for:[20]
Review of As Long as I Can Sing in Dallas News, which Friedman wrote the songs for; he is mentioned in the title:[21]
Article about him in The Buffalo News in 2005:[22][23]
He wrote the music for King Island Christmas, which received a lot of press coverage, including 48 articles naming him: http://news.google.co.uk/archivesearch?q=%22King+Island+Christmas%22+%22david+friedman%22&btnG=Search&um=1&ned=uk&hl=en&num=100&scoring=a.
He wrote the music for Disney's Aladdin and the King of Thieves, the 2nd Aladdin sequel, although Entertainment Weekly wasn't impressed: "The five new songs, by David Friedman and the Jafar team of Randy Petersen and Kevin Quinn, lack the original film's Howard Ashman-Alan Menken sparkle (there's a love duet for Aladdin and Jasmine that'll clear your rec room in seconds)." Ouch.[24] New York Daily News was kinder: "the songs, while not up to the Ashman-Menken gold standard, are quite pleasant, especially David Friedman's "Out of Thin Air," sung by Brad Kane and Liz Callaway."[25]
Hugh Panaro, a Broadway star, says this of Friedman: "Well, this is funny because I have been a fan of David Friedman for – I don't know how many years. My friend who is no longer with us, Laurie Beechman, sang a lot of David's music on her CDs. So I met David and he asked if I'd like to do his show "Listen to My Heart." And when it rains, it pours! I had to make a decision between doing David' s show and "Phantom of the Opera." And I won't lie – I went for the money. And I also knew that "Phantom" was probably a longer commitment and I could get my teeth into it a bit more. I told David and he understood. He wished I could have done his show, and he was gracious. He's amazing."[26]
Kathie Lee Gifford says: "David Friedman worked for years at Disney, writing and conducting the scores for various films and Broadway shows. In other words, I called the best."[27]. They co-wrote songs for a musical, Hats!.[28]
To sum up, while "David Friedman isn't exactly a household name among theater composers",[29] he has written music for some very famous names, worked on Disney movies as a conductor, arranger and song writer, and been central to musical theatre productions that got good coverage. He's well worth us having an article about. If nothing else cuts it, then he definitely meets this criteria: "Is frequently covered in publications devoted to a notable sub-culture". He is frequently covered in cabaret and Broadway publications: Playbill has 46 articles that at least mention him:[30] Fences and windows (talk) 23:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Notable as songwriter for platinum recording artists and as conductor of the scores for several top-grossing animated features (Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Pocahontas). Plus the many references that Fences and windows listed above that can be added to the article make it a keeper for sure. --Tikilounge (talk) 02:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.