Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Death of Alberto Fujimori

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to Alberto Fujimori#Illness and death. The arguments against keeping this as a standalone article, either Delete or Merge, carried more P&G weight than the Keeps, not to mention being more numerous. Owen× ☎ 11:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Alberto Fujimori

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Single event, unlikely to garner more details (that would arguably add to the lack of notability of the event), already covered in Fujimori's page. Fails WP:1E, WP:GNG. Cabrils (talk) 02:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Events, and Peru. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete pointless stub. No scope for expansion and not even worth redirecting IMV. Mccapra (talk) 05:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and expand It is highly notable, but just needs an expansion. dunno if a convict will have a state funeral, but that is notable iniself.Sportsnut24 (talk) 05:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

:Keep and wait it's likely that the consequences of Fujimori's death will be notable; he will be getting a state funeral per El País and there will be more to come. If by the end of the seven days there's nothing notable that's happened, then I'll change my vote. Jaguarnik (talk) 07:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Completely sufficient to cover this in the main article. Violates WP:NOTNEWS. Having a state funeral (or not) is in no way a reason for a content fork. Geschichte (talk) 07:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The man has just died, there's little point in nominating the article now, how big the event will be is WP:CRYSTAL. Besides, the article passes WP:GNG and the funeral itself and its aftermath are yet to happen. I would like to point out that this isn’t just any state funeral; this was one of if not the most influential figure in Peruvian politics and across Latin America. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The guy may be influential, but the circumstances of death doesn't really ring much. If it were an extraordinary COD it may have passed GNG. As for the funeral it is WP:CRYSTAL. Borgenland (talk) 08:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keepwithout prejudice to re-nominating later or userfying if it turns out there's not much to say.~~

In my experience, these notnews/crystal deletions are typically pointless -- the news keeps rolling in, and the article gets edited, until it's clear whether it's notable. The deletion rationale seems simple at the front end, but trying to discuss notability as new articles get added daily is like trying to sweep back the tides ("relisting, anyone care to comment on the new sources identified above?")

~~merge to Alberto Fujimori. Very little of note was reported around his funeral; it appears no attendance or accolades from world leaders; nothing significant surrounding the event itself.~~ Oblivy (talk) 09:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per Jaguarnik's article assuring a state funeral. It’s not just the death, it’s the event, and who shows up. All will be reported. Hyperbolick (talk) 09:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Completely sufficient to cover this in the main article. --UpEpSilon (talk) 10:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: And Wait. Let's see how this story develops Warm Regards, Miminity (talk) (contribs) 14:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Main article can easily cover this. "Death of [Person]" articles do not need to exist separately from biographical articles that the person already had — they're created only where the death itself is a notable event but the person was not independently notable enough to get a conventional biographical article at all, meaning that they exist instead of a biographical article about the dead person, not as a supplement to a biographical article about the dead person. The deaths of already-notable people with biographical articles are covered in the biographical article, not in separate death-of spinoffs. Bearcat (talk) 14:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Although there's WP:SIGCOV, Fujimori already has an article. There's no need for a second one detailing his death - all new information can be added to the main article.--DesiMoore (talk) 15:56, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/delete Yet another absurd rush to create separate and redundant pages. Add content to Alberto Fujimori#Illness and death, then propose a split if there's sufficient content. The main article also has a whole Legacy section that would cover how people react to his death. If you think the main article is too long, move other content to the several existing subarticles rather than jumping to make another. Reywas92^Talk 17:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as there is in fact scope for expansion and Fujimori was a notable political figure. Jang317 (talk) 18:46, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notable political figures who already had biographical articles do not get their deaths spun off to separate "death of notable figure" articles — "Death of X" articles exist only for people who were not already notable in life so that the death itself is their entire basis for notability, and people who were already notable in life have their deaths covered in the biographical article rather than in a separate content fork. Bearcat (talk) 22:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this meant to be opinion or a statement of policy/guidelines/consensus? There many articles, for example Death and state funeral of Ruhollah Khomeini, Death of Li Keqiang, Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II and so on, for people who were extremely notable in life. I'm not arguing for WP:OTHER, but I genuinely wonder if what you are saying is a policy, guideline, or even a consensus in the community.

N.B. [[Category:Deaths and funerals of politicians]] appears to support my point above about apparent lack of consensus for the position that these articles are not for people who were famous in life. Oblivy (talk) 22:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – An event that had repercussions throughout South America. Svartner (talk) 10:15, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/delete - Death by old age is not unusual, its not like an assassination or a suicide. Reactions to his death are better included at his own article to boost the Legacy section to tell us what impact he had - these reactions are not to his death but to him as a person (whether positive or negative). While there will be a state funeral, it does not seem like the type of long-term ceremonies that were held for people like Queen Elizabeth II (like at Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II). So most of this content is either already in the bio article or can be easily merged, and a separate article is unnecessary. --Masem (t) 12:25, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as a separate article for the death of a state leader feels unnecessary. Unless more specific information is released that deems this article to be noteworthy, the information presented within this article would fit best with the original Alberto Fujimori article.--Ch3sp1n13 (talk) 10:11, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Article has been sufficiently expanded. Ian P. Tetriss (talk) 00:46, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - Article does seem relevant, however the fact that it died by old age it’s not notable and the funeral and aftermath can be easily merged in the main article. Protoeus (talk) 01:28, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, expanded. RodRabelo7 (talk) 01:59, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Article now renamed by me to Death and state funeral of Alberto Fujimori. State funeral has happened. Hyperbolick (talk) 02:26, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep The death of a notorious president. ArionStar (talk) 07:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - A important event. Many other "Death of ____" articles exist. This isn't just the death of a random diplomat. It is the former President of Peru, who is notorious. Wheatley2 (speak to me) (watch me) 09:01, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – Sure he was famous/infamous/notorious but I don't see anything about his death that merits its own article. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 09:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge / Delete The manner of his death was not newsworthy in itself, the funeral will be covered, but IMHO doesn’t need its own page when it can be used to cap off the main page about him instead.

Absurdum4242 (talk) 17:45, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep : I think this a Wikipedia-worthy article. The death of a president, in this case an authoritarian leader who had a lot of controversies while he ruled seems like a notable topic to me. Similarly, the future events as regards his funeral is also something to look out for given his legacies. Instead of a deletion nomination, I’ll suggest the article is kept and developed as more eventful information unfolds.additional comment the funeral held already but I’ll still retain my ‘keep-vote’.

Mevoelo (talk) 02:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep death of a famous president and public figure, as well as his state funeral Scuba 14:51, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Everyone's making crap up again. There is no guideline that says state funerals are entitled to standalone articles. The content about the president's death can be covered in the president's own article. Reywas92^Talk 20:04, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, the state funeral itself is a significant event for a controversial autocrat. Altorespite 🌿 18:31, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting this discussion. While we have had great participation here, almost every editor is focusing on the wrong question, whether or not you, as a person, think this event "deserves" an article. That factor is not important here. We assess discussions based on policies that are relevant and just as importantly, what reliable sources support. This article has been expanded since its nomination but I see no editors providing a review of the sources. This is what is needed to determine its notability, not opinions on whether or not this is an important event. Also, please do not move this article during this AFD discussion, or closure tools, XFDcloser can't decipher what to do when the page title of the article is different from the one at the top of this discussion page.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:41, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge back into original article, leaving no redirect. Hey, a notable person (we went to the same university) dies; there is a funeral, etc. But that does not in any way justify a separate article about the guy dying. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There's nothing notable about Fujimori's death. Most of the coverage just mentions that the guy died, with details being about his career, not the death or funeral. Cortador (talk) 21:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge 18 of the 39 sources discuss his funeral/national mourning in Peru, and 11 of the sources talk about the reactions to his death, so I would not say that the death lacks notable coverage, but his death was very ordinary and will not have sustained coverage; most of the details can be added to his article. Jaguarnik (talk) 21:29, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect to Alberto Fujimori per WP:RELART as an article about his death by necessity duplicates what's in the article itself. My only concern is that the target article is currently at a hefty 169K (8000 words) although this already includes content about his death, funeral and legacy. Redirect is needed for edit history, unless there's so little missing in the target that copying is unnecessary. Oblivy (talk) 08:08, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with the main article; it's clearly notable, but per WP:NOPAGE this seems like a case where "a notable topic can be covered better as part of a larger article, where there can be more complete context". His political career and crimes are necessary context for the responses to his trial. If the article is too long, moving information from the lengthy sections on his presidencies and arrest and trial seems more reasonable to me. CohenTheBohemian (talk) 14:28, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.