Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Woodcock (cyclist)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 00:55, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

John Woodcock (cyclist)

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We have decided that only medalist are default notable for their competition in the Olympics. This guy was not only not a medalist, he came in 44th place. He was absolutely trounced in the Olympics. While the Olympedia entry may count as somewhat substnatial coverage, it clocks in at 3 long sentences, it is not enough by itself to constitute a passing of GNG, and no other substantial sources were found. There is [1] was listed at 19261 overall, and that source is sourced to Wikipedia, so adds nothing at all towards passing GNG. There is nothing to suggest that Woodcock meets any notability criteria. John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:49, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Huh huh huh, Beavis, you said "woodcock". Huh huh huh huh. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 16:05, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per this he was a founder of the Ireland National Cycling Association. He won multiple national titles in the 1920s and 1930s. With a quick WP:BEFORE, you would find he was mainly known as Jack, the Jack Woodcock Memorial race has been held multiple times in Ireland since [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], etc. At worst redirect to Cycling at the 1928 Summer Olympics – Men's individual time trial, per WP:ATD, WP:PRESERVE, WP:R#KEEP and WP:CHEAP. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:34, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Cycling, and Ireland. Shellwood (talk) 16:43, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Is there an Irish newspaper archive? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:52, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, there are several, including [7] and [8] though they are subscription-based. Connormah (talk) 17:28, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly when did being "a" founder of a national association become reason for inclusion. He was one of multiple people involved in founding it. I do not think that suggests notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:14, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment None of the above sources say anything about Woodcock. The first is a blog. The rest say nothing about Woodcock merely name dropping the race. Being a founder of an organization is not a sign to notability, and name dropping a race is not significant coverage. I am not convinced that any of those proffered sources are even reliable, but since they literally say nothing about Woodcock they are not substantial coverage at all. I read through the Olympedia source, the one thing that says anything about Woodcock, and it is not enough on its own to pass GNG and says nothing that actually indicates notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:20, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- having a race named after you is not a sign of notability. None of those sources say anything about Woodcock.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:20, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  "having a race named after you is not a sign of notability" I think you're wrong there, Lambert. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 14:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Has anyone been able to find WP:SIGCOV of Woodcock? BilledMammal (talk) 01:13, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I tried looking into the first Irish newspapers database. It looks like it will only let me search one newspaper at a time. I entered in Jack Woodcock as the search in the first newspaper, taking in the whole range of that newspaper. It gave me 2 hits for Jack and 1 for Woodcock, but none for both names in the same article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:22, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - County Tyrone is in Ulster so I searched in the Belfast Newsletter. At least with my searches I found no mentions of Woodcock there.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:27, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - The default in the Irish Newspaper Archive is all titles; I don't know how you found yourself limited to one. There are hundreds of results for John Woodcock cyclist, and I had to use several different search terms to get the info I wanted. Scolaire (talk) 12:42, 14 May 2022 (UTC) Silly me – I never tried to search for something on the front page of that site. It really is pretty useless, isn't it? Scolaire (talk) 18:18, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There seems to be a fair bit of coverage of him in the British Newspaper Archive, he was a multiple Irish record holder, searching for "J P Woodcock" gives a number of results with the summary giving an idea of the coverage, he also turns up as John or Jack P Woodcock so there's probably a lot more, similar searches can be made at irishtimes.com Piecesofuk (talk) 15:06, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I'm having difficulty searching the British and Irish archives to find sources from the 1920s, but I have to disagree with the nominator's assertion that "having a race named after you is not a sign of notability". While it is not a single wholesale stamp of notability in the Wikipedia sense, having things such as annual events named for you is one of the most fundamental indications of notability there is. Jacona (talk) 15:34, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've asked at the Irish WP and with a user who works on Irish topics for help establishing if there are sources for this individual or not (one, two). Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:03, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I have updated the article from Irish newspaper sources. Scolaire (talk) 12:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 14:16, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per sources identified above. No case for deletion was made or exists. WP:SNOW also applies. gidonb (talk) 17:21, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep He won the Irish national championship in three different events in one year, (the 25, 50, and 100 miles). There is a race named after him. There are many, many articles in the Irish news archives (many mentioned above by Scolaire and Piecesofuk) that include Woodcock in the article title that should be SIGCOV. Jacona (talk) 20:41, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This nomination was a stretch, and source addition during this process has rendered any case for deletion null. A named race is definitely a sign of notability, and I would say that being a key founder of a national governing body is at least a potential one, but beyond this, this person was notable in a significant sport at national level over years. SeoR (talk) 00:26, 15 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per above. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:07, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.