Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Manchester United F.C. 8–2 Arsenal F.C.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Fenix down (talk) 13:36, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Manchester United F.C. 8–2 Arsenal F.C.

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This article fails both WP:NEVENT and WP:GNG Rupert1904 (talk) 13:07, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 13:08, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 13:08, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - This is a WP:POINTY nomination by Rupert1904 in response to the AfD nomination of Bremer SV 0–12 FC Bayern Munich, which they started. There are plenty of sources out there to substantiate the notability of this match, many of which are already included in the article. Although no competition records were set, the magnitude of the result between two big clubs in English football is enough to make this subject notable. – PeeJay 14:21, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Every instance a team scores more than 5 or 6 goals in a game is not substantial enough to make it noteworthy. As the article suggests, there was no title implications on the result and this didn't change the course of history. If results between two big clubs is all that is needed, then where is the article about United's 0–5 loss to Liverpool from this past weekend? Where is Aston Villa's 7–2 romp over Liverpool? Where is Tottenham's 6–1 crushing of United last campaign? All of these matches took place between big clubs in English football and had lopsided victories. This falls into the same category of not being notable enough for its own article. Rupert1904 (talk) 14:35, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Where are those articles? You tell me! The references section of this article should be enough to tell you that it is indeed notable. You're coming up with totally spurious examples to support a bad argument now. – Pee Jay 16:27, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Question While there is WP:COVERAGE does that meet the WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE for an event? I'm also unsure how this article meets WP:EFFECT. --dashiellx (talk) 17:24, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete per nom. The match was a routine league fixture. It wasn't a cup final or a title decider so it had no significant effect on football at the time and has no historical value. It could be said it is only notable for how bad Arsenal were on the day, and it could equally be said that last weekend's demolition of Man U by Liverpool is only notable for how bad Man U were in that game which hasn't got an article (yet?). The only thing that distinguishes the 2011 game from others in the PL between those two clubs is the unusually high score. The score per se is WP:TRIVIA. A match like this cannot be compared with, for example, Liverpool 0–2 Arsenal (1989) which was literally a title decider and has had a long-term historical impact, its article thereby meeting NEVENT and GNG with ease. No Great Shaker (talk) 19:05, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

- Whether or not there is an article about Sunday's game is irrelevant. Besides, five goals in a game is not uncommon; there have been at least five goals in a Premier League match 1,510 times (out of 11,356 matches to date), and games have been won by a margin of at least five goals 225 times, whereas they have been won by a margin of at least six goals just 63 times and contained a total of at least 10 goals on only 6 occasions. But despite the rarity of this result, no one is arguing that just any game with 10+ goals and a winning margin of +6 should have an article. This one is included because of its continued and non-routine coverage ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5]). If the others can match this level of coverage 10 years on, by all means create articles for them, but don't delete this one just because you haven't looked hard enough for supporting content. – Pee Jay 20:37, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

***You can't use a load of statistics to try and prove a point and, frankly, I doubt if any of those five sites are at all reliable. Mention of last Sunday's match is merely an aside that can be ignored. The key points are the article fails NEVENT and the GNG because it was a routine league match with none of the significance or historical value attached to the 1989 title decider or to, for example, any FA Cup final. The only notability claim it might have is its result which, in terms of WP:EFFECT is statistical trivia and therefore fails both WP:NOSTATS and WP:TRIVIA. I agree the match should be mentioned in the Man U club article and perhaps in the Arsenal one too (if its editors will take it on the chin), but a separate article for something that had and still has no meaning beyond a freak scoreline? No way. No Great Shaker (talk) 20:52, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

- - - The statistics were to address your point about this game having an unusually high score. I agree with you, it does have an unusually high score, but that's not why this game has an article. Have you even read the articles I linked to? They're not from random blogs, they're from respected football websites! No one is claiming this game has the same significance as a title decider or a cup final, but it definitely meets a threshold for inclusion here. – Pee Jay 20:59, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:52, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I agree that this is a POINTy nomination, but that aside, there is sufficient coverage, particularly this, which shows notability. Giant Snowman 21:12, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Although I agree with the proposed deletion of this article, I had not taken on board the circumstances around the Bayern match article and I now think that this nomination was raised to make a WP:POINT. On the basis of both procedure and principle, I am therefore withdrawing all comments I've made here. I think the nomination should be withdrawn. My apologies. No Great Shaker (talk) 21:23, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep this is just a WP:POINTy nomination. Passes WP:GNG, as there is still coverage being generated of it, 9 years after the event e.g. [6], [7], [8]. Unlike Bayern Munich beating a fifth tier team, this was two of the top Premier League sides at the time, so was a massive shock. Which is why it still generates lots of coverage Joseph2302 (talk) 08:02, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and trout GNG looks satisfactory to me, has anyone got a big enough trout to whack Rupert with? Govvy (talk) 12:35, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - even leaving the circumstances of the nomination aside, this was clearly a match which had lasting notability and sustained coverage. Dunarc (talk) 22:49, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.