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Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Karmafist/Evidence

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Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.

When placing evidence here, please be considerate of the arbitrators and be concise. Long, rambling, or stream-of-conciousness rants are not helpful.

As such, it is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff; links to the page itself are not sufficient. For example, to cite the edit by Mennonot to the article Anomalous phenomenon adding a link to Hundredth Monkey use this form: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anomalous_phenomenon&diff=5587219&oldid=5584644] [1].

This page is not for general discussion - for that, see talk page.

Please make a section for your evidence and add evidence only in your own section. Please limit your evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs, a much shorter, concise presentation is more likely to be effective. Please focus on the issues raised in the complaint and answer and on diffs which illustrate behavior which relates to the issues.

If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please cite the evidence in your own section and provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Do not edit within the evidence section of any other user.

Be aware that the Arbitrators may at times rework this page to try to make it more coherent. If you are a participant in the case or a third party, please don't try to refactor the page, let the Arbitrators do it. If you object to evidence which is inserted by other participants or third parties please cite the evidence and voice your objections within your own section of the page. It is especially important to not remove evidence presented by others. If something is put in the wrong place, please leave it for the arbitrators to move.

The Arbitrators may analyze evidence and other assertions at /Workshop. /Workshop provides for comment by parties and others as well as arbitrators. After arriving at proposed principles, findings of fact or remedies voting by Arbitrators takes place at /Proposed decision. Only Arbitrators may edit /Proposed decision.

Evidence presented by Bunchofgrapes

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Here is one of more than 50 such greetings from March 12. In the middle of a fairly standard looking welcome message appear these paragraphs:

Also, if you could, please sign my petition
If you'd like to know what's going on in regards to the internal workings of Wikipedia from an experienced user, here's an insight into the unwritten rules of this place.

I do not believe anybody is arguing that Karmafist has not issued many welcome messages such as this, so I do not think it is neccessary to provide a great number of diffs demonstrating this.

The "petition" link is to User:Karmafist/manifesto (March 12 version). This manifesto and petition is clearly intended in good faith and is on the whole inoffensive, but it does endorse notions of how wikipedia should be run that not everyone would agree with, for example:

  1. A sociocratic (not democratic) bicameral legislature (with a lower house made up of all users and an elected upper house) to decide the projects' policies and guidelines.
  2. An understanding that once these policies and guidelines are agreed upon by the community, that they must be followed until changed by the community.
  3. An understanding that the role of the Arbitration Committee is judicial.

The second link is to User:Karmafist/wikiphilosophies (March 12 version). It contains among other content a number of very negative statements about the current state of Wikipedia. (Quoting these portions out-of-context didn't feel right here. Please read the page.) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:37, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Deryck C.

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Tony Sidaway has been flamebaiting by robotically editing Karmafist's welcomes

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Despite the fact, as stated by Bunchofgrapes above, that Karmafist's welcomes are disputable, Tony Sidaway has been ruthlessly and robotically editing Karmafist's welcomes on those said newcomers' talk pages, presumably without the abovesaid newcomers' nor Karmafist's consent as the number of changes is so massive:

It's important to note that:

  1. Those edits (and of course the remaining 40s) are identical. To some extent we may consider Tony Sidaway spamming or mass vandalizing. Imagine you added some {{main}} to a number of articles and somebody replaced them with {{seedetails}} in a row. You'll always think of that as vandalizing.
  2. What Tony Sidaway replaced with Karmafist's message is the standard welcoming note, which is confusing as it looks in some ways similar to Karmafist's.

Tony Sidaway's act would severely confuse newcomers that the person who originally welcomed them has retracted his own message and replaced it with something else, as newcomers are usually not used to viewing edit histories.

From the above, Tony Sidaway's act is severely provocative. Karmafist has already shown his greatest courtesy in not edit warring against Tony Sidaway on the newcomers' user talk pages. With such flamebaiting by Tony Sidaway, it is a human being's natural reflection for Karmafist to reject a negotiation with Tony Sidaway. --Deryck C. 04:48, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Tony Sidaway

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Karmafist's history of welcoming new users

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Karmafist has a long history of welcoming users in a friendly manner using the standard template. He started in August, and on October 12 began to record his efforts. On January 2, he changed his modus operandi to use a personal template that referred newcomers to his own "wikiphilosophies", and on February 8 he added a request for the new user to sign his petition or manifesto.

October

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  • 12 October, 2005

December

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January

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  • 1 January, 2006
  • 2 January, 2006
    • 00:01
    • 21:55
      • User:Karmafist/wikiphilosophies: adds very negative criticism of the Wikkipedia-related IRC channels: "Almost all wiki related channels other than #wikipedia, especially technically related ones, are worthless since they are filled with silence, which apparently is more favorable than assisting you, someone more ignorant of something than them."
    • 22:00
      • User:Karmafist/wikiphilosophies: adds "alternative" way to make policy. "Step 1. Find a policy that's faulty. Step 2. Blantantly ignore it, advertise your civil disobedience if wished. Be nice while doing so. Step 3. Until people give you a compromise or real world reason to stop, just don't. The winner is the person who edits the most without breaking WP:3RR or WP:CIVIL.

February

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Second assertion

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Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion, for example, your second assertion might be "Jimmy Wales makes personal attacks". Here you would list specific edits where Jimmy Wales made personal attacks.

Evidence presented by {your user name}

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First assertion

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Place argument and diffs which support your assertion, for example, your first assertion might be "Jimmy Wales engages in edit warring". Here you would list specific edits to specific articles which show Jimmy Wales engaging in edit warring

Second assertion

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Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion, for example, your second assertion might be "Jimmy Wales makes personal attacks". Here you would list specific edits where Jimmy Wales made personal attacks.


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