Talk:British Army officer rank insignia

Template

On my computer the table looks perfect. It isnt necesary to revert a page to fix inacuracies, revert should be last resort. -- Cat ^chi? 19:47, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

The table was great, it was just the huge space before the text that looked odd. I have rejigged to sort this and keep the table. Dainamo 18:27, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Can anyone else remember but I have a strong memory that one or more British regiments still use the the rank of "Ensign" rather than second Lt.Alci12

I think the Guards sometimes refer to their 2Lts as Ensigns, but the official rank has been 2Lt since the 19th century. -- Necrothesp 17:53, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Why are British Generals appearing on American TV (ex: CNN 20 January 2007) with American Generals' rank insignia (in this case, the senior Brit wearing desert cammo with three stars for LTG on his collar???????????????????????????????? (67.86.26.21 15:10, 20 January 2007 (UTC))

Brigadier General

The modern last-half 20th century and the 21st century United States General ranks start at Brigadier General with the unique symbol using a silver star. The British does not start using the crossed swords symbol until the Major-General rank as a unique identifier of being a General. The United States started to make the practiced Brigadier General distinction common starting with the United States Civil War (1861 to 1865). There were Brigadier Generals that could be commissioned in the post American Revolutionary War against England (1776 to 1787--when the United States Constitution was accepted and the acceptance eliminated something uncertain of being an independent nation), but law and practice were not always the same. There were military academy graduates (such as from West Point) that were few in number compared to the 3.5 million soldiers they would eventually lead into warfare out of a United States population of an estimated 16 million people (bloody knife fight to the last willing to fight). This means, any academy graduate did expect to be a military General, and anyone commissioned not a General eventually became a General as a military academy graduate (there might be an exception, but it was a uncommon exception due to the lack of trained and educated leadership). The difference and distinction of symbols are important, since people place value in symbols, and it is something to wonder about.

The US and British ranks of Brigadier General were routed in the same traditions. The British Army used the cross baton and sword on its own for the rank of Brigadier General up until the 1920s (refer to Brigadier article). It was the subsequent evolution of the British Command structure that led to the rank being replaced by Colonel-Commandant, shortly afterwards renamed Brigadier. Dainamo 20:20, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I certainly do not understand your point about everyone from West Point becoming a brigadier-general. That is plainly wrong. Not even the infamous General Custer ended up as anything but a General by brevet; his regular rank and pay was Lieutenant Colonel after the ACW. 84.23.155.84 (talk) 18:39, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Captain General

Is this entry correct. It was an appointment - rather like commander in chief, usually for foreign expeditions and ceased at the end of the purpose for its creation. Its not really a rank anymore than commodore was in the Navy in the same period.Alci12 16:29, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

In modern armies the progression through ranks for the purpose of a pay and career structure can be contrasted with specific appointments. I don't think this clear dintinction always applies historically. A monarch or duke who held the position would have condiered their title to be their "rank" and their command title their appointment, but Captain General is clearly the precursor of a full General today (general having then been an adjective). It is also not true that it was always a "temporary" postion. Dainamo (talk) 18:20, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Commissioned Officers

I am new to this so please forgive my ignorance. Why are these ranks referred to as army officers? They are commissioned, but the lower ranks corporal etc are also officers, but non-commissioned. If referred to under the general title 'officers' then the non-commissioned should also be included?

Officers traditionally only refers to comissioned officers, whereas with other ranks you would specify Non-Comissioned Officer or NCO. Thats just the way it is really. In fairness, NCOs and Officers ike to keep a measure of seperation between them anyway. If you ever make the mistake of calling an NCO 'Sir', (WOs excepted) you will almost certainly get the reply. "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living."--82.0.51.48 15:51, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I have looked at pages on other webpage and they contain the insignia for the comissioned offiers and acording to them comissioned officers are still apointed during peacetime so why are their insignia not shown here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by King Elijah M. F. Talbot (talk • contribs) 02:42, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Why is 'lieutenant' written as 'leftenant'? I notice on the U.S. Army officer rank page 'lieutenant' is not spelt 'lootenant' ! !

RASAM 19:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it's already been corrected and leftenant doesn't appear in the current text.

Either way, the article says Of interest is the British pronunciation of Lieutenant (sounds like Lef-ten-ant), which is a corruption of the standard French pronunciation and can cause confusion when working with soldiers from other nations which is to ignore that the US American (sounds like Loo-ten-ant) is also a corruption of the French pronunciation (sounds like Li-oo-ten-on) — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieGoodwin (talk • contribs) 18:30, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Officer Designate

I seriously doubt that the British Army has Officer Designates. If no citation can be provided then, in line with Wikipedia:Citing sources, it should be removed. Greenshed 00:21, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of it myself (As a TA Lieutenant). Also, the white tape in my experience represents under officer or potential officer. PO is more common. Finally, Officer cadets use black stripes. Single at their lowest level and two when they finish their training. They also appoint JUOs and SUOs (Junior and Senior under officers.) The latter has a symbol that takes up the whole epaulette which looks a lot like a fleur de lis.--81.171.193.118 14:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

This should be removed - even the Officer Designate page states:'Officer Designate does not have an equivalent in the British Army'. Does anyone know how to remove it??!!

worked it out and removed it! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alexmb (talk • contribs) 16:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

Leftenant

I am playing Call of Duty 4 and the SAS servicemen keep on calling my character "leftenant." Is this term really used in the British Army? I can't find any mention of it on Wikipedia. Thanks.--71.237.4.8 (talk) 11:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

"Leftenant" is the British pronunciation of lieutenant, although it's not spelled as such. Alkari (?), 8 January 2008, 01:08 UTC

The article says Of interest is the British pronunciation of Lieutenant (sounds like Lef-ten-ant), which is a corruption of the standard French pronunciation and can cause confusion when working with soldiers from other nations which is to ignore that the US American (sounds like Loo-ten-ant) is also a corruption of the French pronunciation (sounds like Li-oo-ten-on) RobbieGoodwin (talk) 18:27, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

GBOI

This article mentions an officer designated "GBOI of the 10th Indian Division". What does this stand for? Is it a misprint? Drutt (talk) 22:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

This is almost certainly a misprint for GSO1 or GSOI. Drutt (talk) 11:56, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Alignment

Is there a reason why the images of insignia are sorted right-to-left, instead of the standard (both Wikipedia AND much more readable) left-to-right?

I don't understand. They appear to be sorted left-to-right to me. Please explain. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:58, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

It also ought be noted that they break page size on 1280x1024 resolution. Fine on my widescreen monitor, but probably much less more tolerable on more common, smaller monitors. DigiFluid (talk) 06:47, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

What happened to the images?

Other dictionaries are better (talk) 22:30, 4 May 2011 (UTC) The images are still missing. Anyone know where they went??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.152.38.126 (talk) 23:27, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

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Subalterns

I thought 'everyone knew' that subalterns were commissioned officers below the rank of captain, as is confirmed, for instance, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaltern

This article says Those in the ranks of Captain, Lieutenant and Second Lieutenant are often referred to as Subalterns…

Which is correct, please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieGoodwin (talk • contribs) 18:14, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

You are. Bermicourt (talk) 12:05, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Ensigns After 1871

In the article it says Ensigns were replaced in 1871 by 2nd Lieutenant. In the HAC, promotions to Ensign were still being made up to at least the end of 1875. By 1880 the rank had been replaced by 2nd Lieutenant. Was the 1871 date an absolute for all regiments of the British Army or just the start of a gradual process which took several years? I am not sure of the last date of promotions/commissions to the rank of Ensign in the HAC, but it was in this time period.

Addition: Transition from Ensign rank to 2nd Lieutenant dated 19th June 1878. (Sourced from the London Gazette.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.61.183 (talk) 18:17, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

wings

The article repeatedly mentions historical rank insignia being on wings, but article does not define this item. Can someone please do a quick write up on what "wings" mean in context of military uniform and rank insignia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.142.45 (talk) 18:47, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

General rank badges wrong way round?

I wonder if generals' rank badges are the right way round. I've seen a number of sources showing the sword point at the top right; others at the top left. For example, the diagrams on the British Army website have the points at top left, but the National Army Museum has photographs showing them at the top right. Or did they change at some point? Bermicourt (talk) 13:06, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Tudor Crown

Is it appropriate to have the main images replaced with the pre-1953 versions and listed as "2022–" rank insignia, as is currently the case on the page? I'm aware of the announcement from the Royal College of Arms saying it's intended for the Tudor crown to be used during the new reign, but at present I've not been able to find anything from the MoD showing insignia with it. Would it be more prudent to wait for evidence of updated insignia before making the change? Thunderplunk (talk) 23:38, 26 December 2022 (UTC)