Talk:Francis Marion

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070814024303/http://community.marion.ia.us/swampfox/ to http://community.marion.ia.us/swampfox/

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Updating the article so it reflects today's societal standards

When Marion's atrocities were previously discussed on this page it was long before Jerry Epstein, Trump, the resurgence of white supremacists, and the BLM-movement. Criticism of Marion was minimized with the excuse of political correctness gone wild. It’s time to update the article, so it’s reflects today's societal standards. As a beginning I have added this sentence According to The Guardian, "it seems that Marion was slaughtering Indians for fun and regularly raping his female slaves".

The comments of Michael Graham should be removed. He is so out of date. President Biden has recognized the genocide of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire. If it’s ok to "recognize" a crime that didn't exist when it was committed by a government that doesn't exist anymore, certainly the crimes committed by Marion should be recognized in a Wikipedia article. Creuzbourg (talk) 15:30, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

The Guardian article should be taken with a grain of salt. It was written in 2000 and is written in response to The Patriot film which had recently been released. This movie was controversial in part because of its depiction of the British Army committing all sorts of horrific massacres. Christopher Hibbert take as a historian is one thing, but the claim that Marion “killed Indians for fun” or “raped his slaves” is pure editorializing by the articles author, Betsy Reed, that doesn’t even come close to what Hibberts actual quote states. A historian describing his actions during the war against the Cherokee as “persecution” (a very vague term especially considering no specific example is given) as taking this to mean he was killing Cherokee for fun is ridiculously hyperbolic.

Michael Grahams take should not be removed as his view has just as much Reeds outlandish ones.

Not really sure what Trump, Biden, BLM, or the Armenian genocide have to do with Marion though.Friedbyrd (talk) 19:06, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

I think you are referring to Jeffrey not Jerry Epstein, regardless he is irrelevant. You may want to have a better grasp on details around Francis Marion and the unit he commanded before editing this article. Many free blacks and free people of color served in Marion's unit. See Military history of African Americans "half of whose force sometimes consisted of free Blacks." There were land grants given to free blacks who served in this unit, a prominent example is Joseph Braveboy - who despite his categorization was of Native American ancestry. Native Americans and those of mixed Native American ancestry were accustomed to guerilla warfare as employed by the so-called 'Swamp Fox', and many attribute the teaching of these tactics to Native Americans. Another missing detail is that the Cherokee owned slaves at this time, see Native American slave ownership which state "the Cherokee exhibited the strongest color-prejudice of all Native Americans." Some South Carolinians like Henry Laurens and James Laurens advocated freeing any African Americans who served. Francis Marion is often cited as the prime example of a unit with free blacks. Some African Americans served as captains in the South Carolina navy which "had significant numbers of Black captains" according to African Americans in the Revolutionary War. Some of the mixed descendants of those who served named their children after Francis Marion. There is a lot missing here. There are better sources than Wikipedia for this history. ~~ Karmstrong1970 (talk) 22:58, 11 March 2023 (UTC)