Talk:Lashon Hakodesh

Translated from Hebrew Wikipedia --Midrashah (talk) 15:58, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1 July 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Done (page mover closure) DrStrauss talk 16:23, 8 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Leshon Hakodesh → Lashon Hakodesh – I see that User:-- -- -- moved this article from Lashon Hakodesh. The original name was correct; compare lashon hara. The Hebrew word for tongue is לָשׁוֹן lashon (well, loshon in Ashkenazic pronunciation), with a qamatz under the lamedh when vowel points are used. "The holy tongue", a noun simply qualified by an adjective and the definite article, corresponds to "lashon hakodesh", the unmodified noun qualified by the adjective bearing the definite prefix. Leshon hakodesh uses the construct form of the word, לְשׁוֹן, giving a phrase that means "tongue of the holy", which isn't what the phrase is understood to mean.

The pointed standard form of the word can be seen at here by looking up the word "tongue". It can also be found here. For what it's worth, it's also at he:wikt:לשון, as the first section header. Largoplazo (talk) 11:36, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support move Not only is lashon right, but the first sentence of the article says it's the more common spelling. — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 14:22, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support as per nominator. Per WP:HEBREW it should be "Lashon HaKodesh" with a capital "k" as well, because "ha" is only the definite article. Debresser (talk) 16:32, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose move. The word kodesh is not an adjective (as Largoplazo wrote above), but a noun (meaning "holiness"). The adjective "holy" is either kadosh (masculine) or kedosha (feminine). It is therefore a mistake to compare Lashon Hakodesh to the term lashon hara, where the word (ha)ra is an adjective. Thus, the literal translation of leshon (ha)kodesh is not "tongue of (the) holy", but "(the) tongue of holiness, or "(the) language of holiness". However, this is the term used for "the holy language", just like in Isaiah 52:1, iyr hakodesh is translated "the holy city" although its literal translation is "the city of holiness" ("the holy city" would be translated as ha'iyr hakedosha) and in Isaiah 57:13, har kodshy is translated "My holy mountain" although its literal translation is "the mountain of My holiness". (The words iyr and har don't get modified for the construct form). The literal translation of Lashon Hakodesh is "tongue the holiness" or "language the holiness" – quite nonsensical, if you ask me. -- -- -- 19:47, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Note. I will not oppose a move to "Leshon HaKodesh", although I think "Leshon hakodesh" might be more correct since I'm not sure it qualifies as a proper noun. -- -- -- 19:47, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

More on the spelling "Lashon HaKodesh"

In Hebrew it is certainly leshon hakodesh לְשׁוֹן הַקֹּדֶש. In Yiddish it's loshn koydesh (with no ha-). I don't know on what principles the spelling of a Wikipedia title should be chosen. But lashon hakodesh seems simply ignorant. It may be that in English the most frequent spelling is lashon hakodesh, but isn't Wikipedia supposed to give correct information, not just popular misconceptions? BTW, the title of Klein's book Lashon HaKodesh (https://www.amazon.com/Lashon-HaKodesh-History-Holiness-English/dp/1937887367/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1668719425&refinements=p_27%3AShira+Yael+Klein&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Shira+Yael+Klein) is simply embarrassing; it makes me not want to read the book.

The Wikipedia article on the grilled meat pocket sandwich is titled "Gyros" even though gyro gets 35 million Google hits versus only 25 million for gyros, presumably because gyros is the correct Greek word.Linguistatlunch (talk) 21:26, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please look at the discussion above your post above, and tell us what you think of it. It seems to me the discussion was already had once, and the article was then moved from Leshon to Lashon. Are all the veteran editors who supported it above wrong? Thank you, warshy ^(¥¥) 21:47, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]