Talk:Porsche 911

Move/Merge

See also Talk:Porsche 911 series. -- Matthead  Discuß   13:30, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

So why not just move Porsche 911 series to Porsche 911? What's the difference? --Vossanova ^o< 19:35, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I've moved that talk page to Talk:Porsche 911/Archive 1, because it's pretty much an archive. Graham87 12:13, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Nine-eleven vs. Nine-one-one

The way I've been taught (granted, it was some forty-odd years ago) is that the "official" company policy has that each digit is voiced separately. Not Nine-eleven, not Nine hundred-eleven, not Ninety-one-with-an-extra-one...just Nine-one-one. Or Nine-eight-seven, or Nine-six-two, or Nine-four-four, or Three-five-six, or etc., etc., ad nauseum.

Most if not all gearhead Porsche guys I know have been much like me and have followed this mantra for ages. Monoblocks (talk) 17:14, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source? swaq 16:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I wish I did. As it is, my recount is sadly more or less hearsay at this point, other than for a group of 911 owners like myself who have chosen to use 9-1-1 over 9-11, purportedly based (since I've never polled them) on the acceptance of the belief of how the company had referred to this car and other numerically-named models early in its history. I haven't asked, but I'm guessing that few if any of us got this notion out of some book. I can check with the gang to see if they know anything further that's more concrete.

As I said earlier, in my case I was told this--by a Porsche fanatic neighbor of one of my cousins--back in the late 1960s, and it and this fellow's brilliant 911S has stuck with me ever since. I do know and acknowledge that the 911 has been marketed by the company as the 'Nine-Eleven' since at least the late '70s up to this day--particularly here in North America--yet I also recall there had been some discussions if not actual written articles concerning the marketing aspect of this Porsche model number in light of the emergence, development and adoption of the U.S. 9-1-1 emergency telephone system. Porsche has used both pronunciation methods (9-44 and 9-4-4, for example) in their TV commercials for other models during this same time frame; I have come across videos on YouTube in the past bearing this out. I also seem to recall that a few years back there was a video documentary on Porsche (the company) briefly discussing this topic (History Channel perhaps?) that supported the 9-1-1 pronunciation. Unfortunately, with the haze of time and long discarded magazines I'm unable to cite specific sources. Anyone else care to weigh in? Monoblocks (talk) 12:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I dont think it is really set in stone per-se, but remember, prior to being the 911 it was the 901 and was pronounced 9-0-1, just a thought Tokyosmash (talk) 21:32, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

My local Porsche dealer always refers to it as a 9-1-1. As there is no reference to 9-11 or 9-1-1, I don't think the lead can be quite so categoric. Warren (talk) 17:08, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

The THIRD oldest

911 is the THIRD oldest sports-car after Chevrolet Corvette and Nissan Skyline (production started in 1957). Correct please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.124.58.165 (talk) 11:31, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

The name "Nissan Skyline" refers to many, many different cars. It began as more of a "platform" than a model. You can compare a 911 or Corvette from the early 60s to its current iteration and very easily see how the cars have retained their identities as sports cars.

For the record, the Mercedes SL nameplate is older than the Skyline. If the above were followed, than the Skyline would be 3rd and the 911 would be 4th--76.11.68.50 (talk) 03:12, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

You would have to provide reliable references for not only that but also for the definition of sports car. Good luck with that. I sincerely doubt Corvette was the first, though may have been first to take it to such a level of mass appeal.Batvette (talk) 17:37, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

No one knows the oldest sports car still in production. Itsmehbro (talk) 11:14, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Targa Florio

ASFAIK Targa means plate not shield in Italian, i.e. commamorative plate=targa commemorativa, it's also most commonly used for car's number plates. cheers203.122.233.131 (talk) 03:52, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

New 911 Turbo

A new model 911 has been announced, along with a 911 Sport Classic limited edition model. Will add to the main page when I'm not on a work computer so I can get the info from the flash site!Owenraven (talk) 09:25, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

New Popular Culture section

Please contribute if youve seen any 911 in a movie,TV show,or book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KevinRachel2010 (talk • contribs) 19:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, please do not add trivia like 911 in popular culture per WP:WPACT and WP:TRIVIA. Thanks, Alanraywiki (talk) 22:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

How about Bad Boys? There was a 964 featured in the movie. What about the Japanese manga/anime Wangan Midnight? Didn't it feature a 911/964 in the series alongside a Nissan Z? Itsmehbro (talk) 11:17, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

"US-spec water-cooled 911 Carrera" - Correction

"US-spec 911 turbo comes with limited-slip center differential, like the rest of the world" - I don't believe that any 911 has a centre differential at all. The Porsche AWD system uses a solid drive to the rear axle, with a power-take-off to the front via a viscous coupling (most models) or a computer-controlled clutch (959 at least). Sorry, don't immediately have any references to hand... Thanks! Jon_H 195.166.119.226 (talk) 12:20, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

What makes a 997, etc., a 911, and not its own model?

I was confused on seeing the Top Gear episode in which a Porsche was first described with some other number and then called a 9-11. Other firms keep the basic model number and add letters, or, as in the Chevrolet Sting Ray, change the design drastically and still call it the same thing. The engine number isn't 911, they can change; the bodies keep a resemblance to each other, sometimes closer to, sometimes farther from, the original; but the numbers are changed -- sometimes, but it isn't an enforced renaming. A paragraph is needed to describe what keeps one of these car designs part of the same series. 4.154.254.149 (talk) 21:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Organizing the article

I think the article should be organized as follows, considering each platform

==Original air-cooled platform==

911/912/930

964

993

==First water-cooled platform==

996

997

==Second water-cooled platform==

991

The 997 deserves its own two-equal-sign-level heading because it is a new platform. But what should that heading actually be called? Second water-cooled? 991 chassis? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.181.197 (talk) 20:08, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

You meant the 991 deserves its own heading, right? That would make sense. Jtnet (talk) 10:17, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree completely that the article should be re-organized, and I think the principle you describe is a good one. However -- despite the myriad arguments made for any standpoint you might take here with regard to the similarity or difference of purported "generations" of the 911 -- I believe that the "classical" interpretation of their being seven generations of the car should be represented in the basic structure (i.e. the headers) of the article. Perhaps most importantly to coincide with Porsche AG's own way of addressing the issue! The content can be "wrapped around" the headers, including any important arguments for one or the other way of seeing things.

Thus I would propose to amend your structure as follows:

==Air-cooled models==

===First (original) platform===

911 "classic" (F and earlier) / 912

911 G (and later) / 930

964

993

==Water-cooled models==

===Second platform===

996

997

===Third platform===

991

(This could optionally be amended by listing each generation with a number, from 1 to 7.)

Important aspects of how to re-structure the text could be taken from the relevant German wiki page. This would primarily involve some re-working of the section prior to the 964. Jtnet (talk) 13:27, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

US-spec water-cooled 911 Carrera

Why is this section titled "US-spec"? The words relate to the fitting of a limited slip differential across the 996 range and is common with the RoW fitments. This section title could just be deleted and the detail on the limited slip differential fitment be included with the general 996 words. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.143.133.108 (talk) 13:50, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

First picture

Let's keep it as the current 991 for now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.254.160.232 (talk) 21:41, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Date of Introduction

Currently the Article cites NYT with the date 9/11/63

NYT only specifies the year 1963.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyberwikilink (talk • contribs)

Good catch, I have fixed it. --John (talk) 00:26, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

About line in intro

Should the current version (the 991) also be mentioned alongside the Porsche 911 classic in the {{about}} template at the start of the article? Some people might be looking for that. —Gyaro-Maguus— 21:56, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

No. The "about" line is referred to as disambiguation which directs users to pages on similar or identical named topics. It references the classic 911 because it's internal model number was 911. People searching for it could potentially be confused when they end up here at a page covering the history of the vehicle as a whole. It would be inappropriate to disambiguate to an article with an entirely different title. --Daniel 15:11, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

1963 - 1997 Porsche 911 essentially the same car?

I'm not a Porsche expert, but a friend of mine is (Has raced them, restored them, owned like 20 of them) and he said that all Porche 911 models prior to the 1998 model year are all basically (with a capital "B") the same car. He said that a 1963 911 would have few interchangeable parts with a 1997 911, but that the car never had an actual clean-sheet redesign until the water-cooled version came to be in 1998. He made an analogy to the 1968-1982 Corvette where the car underwent significant changes but was basically the same car all along. So was the 993 really a new car or just a 964 with many revisions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.215.56.3 (talk) 21:11, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

The 993 was nearly an all new car, but shared a handful of components (doors, engine). The introduction of the water-cooled 996 in 1998 marked the first complete redesign in the vehicles history and shared no components (maybe the badge) with the outgoing model. Where I'd take issue is your friends statements that the 993 and the original 1964 911 are basically the same car. While all the the intervening models were evolutionary rather than complete redesigns, the slow process of evolution ensured that these vehicles shared few if any components. At the end of the day, whether one car is the "same" as another is a bit of Ship of Theseus issue. The evolution of the air-cooled 911 is also similar to the biological concept of an unclosed Ring species, where a model's predecessor and successor are very similar, but the end specimens (original 911 and 933) are very different. --Daniel<n> 21:28, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

That was what I was thinking. For example, the V-8 in a 1955 Corvette would likely not share a single component with the V-8 in a 1996 Corvette, but durring that long span the engine was never given a complete clean-sheet redesign (until 1997). I guess it comes down to semantics and the definition of what constitutes a "new" generation. GM claimed that the 1991 LT-1 was an all-new engine but it really wasn't IMO, just a heavily revised version of the 1990 engine, which also had little in common with the original 1955 engine. IMO, one could easily make a case that the 1963-1997 Porsche 911 constitutes a single generation.

Actually it would be easier to make a case that the 1963 to 1989 911 constitues a single generation as the bodyshells are essentially the same such that a 3.2 carrera can (given parts) be backdated to almost exact replica's of previous models. The 964's shell was heavily modified to accomodate coil spring suspension and marked the first major re-design of the shell. In addition, only model designation numbers for 1965-1989 began with 911-###-#### (though the turbo began 930-#### ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.149.117.204 (talk) 16:07, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

While you have a valid point, it is nevertheless not universally agreed upon, and integrating the "polemic" aspects of this topic into the basic article structure causes confusion and is missing the point.

You can "make a case" for similarity of all air-cooled Porsches -- as you could for the similarity of 996 and 997 -- but you could just as easily make the case against it. It depends on the Porsche enthusiast you ask. For the sake of clarity and consistency, I think that discussions of this matter could (perhaps should) be written into the article, but the concept of "7 generations" -- used by most enthusiasts and by Porsche AG, and also quoted in various articles and sub-articles in wikipedia! -- should be the leitmotiv for this article as well. Jtnet (talk) 10:38, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

How Many Generations?

The 991 is referred to as the 7th Generation 911. In the context of this article, it's the 6th Generation. Is this simply a mis-count, or is there a generation break typically made that's not made clear in this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.94.158.126 (talk) 23:29, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

As with so many aspects of this article, the inconsistency here relates to incomplete/inconsistent editing combined with differences of opinion. The 7 generations are:

1) Classic series, models A-F

2) G-model and later, incl. 930

3) 964

4) 993

5) 996 (new platform)

6) 997

7) 991 (new platform)

Optimally, the article would explain the various classifications in an introductory overview, but as you can see with the heading for the "Classic Series" -- which is a subheading of the air-cooled era -- the dates through 1997 have been taken into both levels. Suffice to say, this is a very contested way of seeing things, and certainly makes the article more difficult to understand. Jtnet (talk) 10:56, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

The original German article uses the "7-generation" classification. As does, by the way, Porsche AG, in its own publications! This should be the basis for the structure of the article (see "Organizing the article" above, as well). Everything else confuses the issue unnecessarily. Jtnet (talk) 10:25, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Three Platforms, which was the second one?

In the 991 section, the first thing it says is "The 991 is an entirely new platform, only the third platform since the original 911.". I don't see any mention of when the second platform started though. Was it the 996 ? I assume so, but it's not made clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.217.180.160 (talk) 23:19, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it was the 996. Jtnet (talk) 10:57, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

reads like a marketing pamphlet. where's the meat?

This article consists of a list of incremental 'improvements' as would be presented in marketing propaganda intended for existing customers.

This is an encyclopedia. The substantial requirements for the article are that it should present information about what is the thing, and how it works. Many photos here, not a single technical drawing, cross-section, or even photo of what is under the hood.

I am sad. After scanning over about 2000 words and 20 images, I know nothing more than I did before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.18.3.246 (talk) 12:30, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I would tend to agree, the article appears to be written if not by the factory then by the president of the owners club. Glaringly absent is any criticism of the car's somewhat quirky handling traits which, in the more extreme example of the 930 turbo, led to successful lawsuits against Porsche resulting in their pulling that version of the 911 out of the US market for a decade. Internal documents surfaced with factory test drivers calling its tendancy to oversteer "poisonous" when paired with the turbo engine. This is not unique to the 930, it was just more glaringly obvious. Maybe this article needs s tag or two until it is consistent with others.Batvette (talk) 00:54, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Also...

I think they changed 901 to 911 because 911 is easier to remember. 99.101.112.147 (talk) 20:47, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Why isn't there any notice about the 911 sometimes in pop culture being referred as "the widowmaker". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.252.108.13 (talk) 21:43, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Or...

American Airlines Flight 11 United Airlines Flight 175 American Airlines Flight 77 United Airlines Flight 93

Adding up the flight numbers gives 356

Reminds one of the Porsche 356…

Which was replaced by the Porsche 911.

Is somebody taking the "mickey"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.72.88.29 (talk) 22:07, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

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Adding a section.....

How do I do that? Itsmehbro (talk) 00:33, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

About the new gen 992.....

Why isn't anyone adding information about the upcoming 992 gen? Every single car bloggers are like, posting news and updates about it! Now I know you're saying why can't I do it? Well, I actually did add info about it but someone "edited" it out by removing it... Itsmehbro (talk) 11:09, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Infobox and article image proposal

Hello, I would like to proposed the following images to be used on the article. The production 911.2 Speedster could be place alongside the concept version. Although there cars and other things in the background, it a good image showing the car in public rather then at a show like most of these performance cars on here are. Thanks.

• 
  Proposed 992 image
• 
  Production 991.2 Speedster
• 
  Alternative Speedster front image
• 
  Production 991.2 Speedster

--Vauxford (talk) 17:07, 13 January 2020‎ (UTC)

Moder myth: "..in France it had exclusive rights... a zero in the middle" -

I asked the press office of Peugeot. They don't know about that kind of right. Quote of the answer via mail:

"Peugeot hat kein Markenrecht auf die „0“ in der Mitte unserer Typenbezeichnungen.

Es ist auch nicht bekannt, dass es das jemals gab."

Peugeot has no trademark rights to the "0" in the middle of our type designations. It's also not known to have ever existed."
But as the claim that Peugeot has it is pretty heated defended on the German Wikipedia I'm not changing it here. Maybe someone is more brave to do so. It seems its just a urban legend everybody copy from each other. I wasn't able to find a source by Porsche or Peugeot who states so, thats why I asked Peugeot about it. ...Sicherlich ^Post 21:01, 4 February 2023 (UTC)