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Talk:Seijun Suzuki

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The photograph

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I removed the caption "Suzuki on the set of Pistol Opera in 2001" because the same photograph can be found in the book The Desert under the Cherry Blossoms from 1991. Skarioffszky 13:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good call. I thought I'd tracked down the source in an online interview but for some reason it hadn't occurred to me that they'd use a publicity shot. Great quotes you added there. Is the book in Dutch or English and Dutch? I ask because if it's translated it should be "threw down" and not "throwed down" and the Dutch title should probably be used and a Dutch language tag added to the reference. If only so us Anglo-bound Suzukiites don't get our hopes up about finding a new book. Thanks, Doctor Sunshine 19:47, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The book is in English and Dutch (I added the Dutch title to the references; "throwed" was my mistake, by the way). It's a collection of texts by Suzuki and interviews published when there was a retrospective at the Rotterdam film festival. Don't know if you can still find it but I'd be glad to photocopy it for you. Here is another good quote - maybe for a Style and aesthetics section?

You don't follow the order of the seasons in your films. Why is that?
Well, the order of the seasons is all wrong! Summer should come first, and then spring. As long as you stick to the correct order of the seasons, people will go see your films and the cash register will ring. Shinoda Masahiro, for instance, follows the seasons faithfully.

Skarioffszky 15:03, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I may just take you up on that. Yeah, the book I've been working from is the same type of thing. It's got that quote but not those other ones. Definitely that'll go under some sort of style section. I was thinking Style and themes, with subheadings based on colour, humour and nihilism, something like that. I haven't worked it out exactly but it seems like there's enough material from Suzuki himself and Tadao Sato for a reasonably sized section. Edit: Correction, I don't have that quote. I have something about seasons too but not that one. That book's great. Doctor Sunshine 06:15, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Wow!

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Wow, I leave this article alone and two months later it exploded. Great work everyone who helped add to it. I was reading an article online recently about Suzuki saying he's not going to make any more films as he feels he's getting to old for them. This seems pretty relevent but I can't find this article anymore. Can anyone help? Andrzejbanas 18:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe this one ? http://film.guardian.co.uk/interview/interviewpages/0,,1808939,00.html : Apart from a spot of acting, Suzuki says he has no plans to make another film. "I'm not really in perfect condition at the moment," he laughs, pointing to his oxygen cylinder. "Making films is all about vitality. You have to be very healthy and at the moment my health is not good.. But I don't think that talking about future possibles non-evenments is a good idea... Benjamin.pineau 20:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah that's the one! I suppose that's fair enough as wikipedia isn't a crystal ball and all that. But I mean, if we state that he stated in an interview that he doesn't plan to continue in this work, and it's straight out of the horse's mouth, then what's the harm? Andrzejbanas 23:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks and yeah, that can definitely be added, as long as it's phrased with something like "he had no plans..." or whatever. Doctor Sunshine 01:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese filmography's sources

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There's - maybe - two small mistakes in the kanji writings on the filmography. I used, for the french article (fr:Seijun Suzuki) those documents as references ; this is the program from the 『鈴木清順48本勝負』retrospective organised by CINEMAVERA in Tōkyō (in oct/nov 2006). The two differences are :

  • Age of Nudity is written 素ッ裸の年令 and not 素っ裸の年令
  • Man with a Shotgun is 散弾銃（ショットガン）の男 rather than 散弾銃の男

I'm not sure who is right there. What are your sources, for this filmography (btw, would be nice to provide them in the main article, no ?) ? Same question for the filmography as actor, I used this one, from this english article, as a base for the french one ; but are the english article filmography's sources reliables ? Thanks. Benjamin.pineau 20:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I just checked Google for images and you're right on Age of Nudity, that should have a ッ.[1]. The katakana in the brackets is furigana and so I'd say its use is optional, I've seen furigana used on many posters and in trailers without being included in official listings, and it's covered by the romanization (though that does confirm that the English loan word reading, rather than the traditional reading, is the primary one.)[2] My source for all of the kanji titles is the JMDb (though they are missing the first part of Emotions of the Sea (which I recently corrected from the French article) and there's the error you caught above); The romaji I got from Outlaw Masters of Japanese Film, checked with the IMDb and then double checked all the macrons and such with Denshi Jisho; but the English titles are from various sources, I tried to pick the best ones but it may need some fine tuning, for example, the R1 DVD is Kagero-za but in retrospectives it was Heat Haze Theatre. The actor section though, I also got those from the JMDb but may have gotten something from the Japanese article—it's been a while, though... They may just be the some of the ones I could confirm with the IMDb. You should be wary of a couple English titles, I translated a Don't Wait Until Dark!, Hippocrates, Grass Carp Up a Tree, Pupu's Story and Hakenkreuz with Denshi Jisho (and intuition) as well. I've since read Hippocrates was released in the US as Disciples of Hippocrates... but on the IMDb, so who knows. I've never noticed any filmographies cited before but it might not be a bad idea, except for those titles which can easily be confirmed by multiple, reliable sources where I don't think it's necessary.
Nice work on the French article by the way, I experimented with a lot of section headers but ended up borrowing yours. Also for sorting out that Kiyoshi/Seijun thing, that was vexing me as well. Doctor Sunshine 00:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if this one's been released outside of Japan but I can confirm he's in Hakenkreuz. Check out the trailer. Doctor Sunshine 00:32, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for this detailed explanation. Ok, I understand it's fair not to cite the filmos sources in this case (I didn't thought you checked so many!). I also have difficulties to find correct french titles (most of those movies weren't translated in french). Even for the filmo as director, I had problems (none of the pre-1963 Suzuki's movies had been showed in french nor published on DVD with french subs/titles). I resorted using translations from the french edition of Tadao Sato's book (Histoire du cinéma Japonais), but they sometime sound very strange, and may not be very reliables. So it's a matter of compromises :( Now, I've to find the will to write on Suzuki's aesthetic (on the "Thèmes et Style" section), and, maybe import/translate some of your nice work (esp. from the "Suzuki v. Nikkatsu" section). Writing on style and aesthetic in wikipedia is always a challenge (given the need to back everything with published critic's references to avoid "personal work"). Do you have plans/whishes for this article ? in what direction do you want it to involve ?
ps: I'm sorry, I can't help writing for this article, my english is way too bad. Maybe I'll find time to insert some refs though. Benjamin.pineau 09:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry about it, your English is miles ahead of my French. A lot of the English title translations that I found are extremely awkward too, I think The Wind-of-Youth Group Crosses the Mountain Pass (aka A New Wind Over the Mountain Pass) was the worst. Feel free to translate whatever you like, it's great to be able to collaborate across language barriers like this.
I do have plans, I think there's enough material available for quite a few sections, I'm thinking something like,
Filmmaking — Suzuki and co. talk about it quite a bit on the Criterion Collection DVD interviews.
Style and themes — Maybe "Aesthetic and continuity" culled form what he's said about his work and "Nihilism and humour" from what Sado's said.
Key Collaborators — Jo Shishido, Takeo Kimura, his DPs, Arato Genjiro and maybe some other actors if there's enough said on them.
Acclaim and Influence — the directors in the intro and I know he's had a huge influence on Japanese directors but I haven't read too many specific names yet.
I think there's enough for an FA, then, of course, I'd like to fill out some of the film and key collaborator articles. Lots to keep us all busy. Doctor Sunshine 01:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Suzuki's influences

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This list is too short indeed. Work in progress...

In Japan
  • Yasuharu Hasebe (made many of the famous Japaneses hard-boiled movies featuring Meiko Kaji). He began as Suzuki's assistant director at Nikkatsu. He says (about his Black Tight Killers movie) : "I had worked on some of Seijun Suzuki's films, so, yes, you're right, I think there was some influence, especially with the humor." (in Chris D., Outlaw masters of Japanese films, p. 131).
  • The movement caused by Suzuki eviction from Nikkatsu in 1967 is said to have influenced Art Theater Guild (and related filmmakers, producers and critics) history. Go Hirasawa wrote about this here : http://www.midnighteye.com/features/underground_atg.shtml . That'an influence in the social aspects of cinema (rather than a stylistic influence), but still, I think it's a very interesting path to explore (and that's a sequel of Branded to Kill)
  • (unsure) Mamoru Oshii. Someone told me that he made some references to Suzuki's works, but found no good evidences so far (well, being replaced as director for Lupin III is not exactly "being influenced by" ;). Nothing I can verify by myself (I've not seen those movies) :
    • 紅い眼鏡を待ちつつ (Akai Megane, The Red Spectacles, 1987), his first featured real (not anime) movie is said to have references to Branded to kill'.
    • Patlabor OVA ep. 5 (The SV 2's longest day Part I) is said to be kind of a Fighting Elegy remake (is this true ?)
Other
  • Well, outside Japan, and beside the often quoted Jarmush's or Wong Kar-wai's references (as per this article and the french one), I finally found Tarantino's own words about Suzuki's influence on his work (it took me time to find out), here.
  • Oh, and this one. Not exactly an influence, but an extremely laudative comment from a respected contemporary director. This may be of use for one of Suzuki related articles, mabye. Kiyoshi Kurosawa says about Fighting Elegy (in collective, STYLE TO KILL　ー 殺しの烙印VISUALDIRECTORY, 2001, プチグラパブリッシング (publisher), Tokyo, ISBN 4-939102-21-1, p. 18) :

これはいわゆる日本名作映画と呼ばれるものの一本であるが、そのような範疇にまず面白いものはいとタカをくくってこれを見逃している人がいるといけないので、挙げた。

This is one of so-called Japanese Classic Cinema, so that I am afraid that there might be some people who miss this film by thinking this kind of category is always dull.

冒頭五分であなたはいきなり衝撃を受けるだろう。そして、これは絶対に日本映画ではないとかくしんするだろう。ではアメリカンかと言うと、そうではない。もちろんヨー>ロピアンではない。何ものにも属さない映画、まるで宇宙から降ってきたような映画、いや、原初の映画と呼んだほうががいいだろうか。

At the first 5 minutes of the film, you will be shocked. And you must be sure that this is not Japanese cinema. American ? No, this is not Amrican either. Of course this is not European. This film doesn't belong to anything. As if it comes from outer space, no, we'd better say this is a primitive film.

つまりこれは神話であって、映画史から完全に自由になるとは、こういうことを言うのだと思う。で、それを可能にしたのは、たかが天才程度の人間ではなく、ほとんど神の>領域に達した人物であることは言うまでもない。

So, this is a myth. Being totally free from History of Cinema is something like that, I think. And of course, what could make it possible is not just a genius, but almost a god.

Benjamin.pineau 21:05, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for these. The MidnightEye article about underground cinema is perfect for the Branded to Kill article (and here). I'd completely missed that one. It will definitely provide the heft the Legacy section is missing. And Kurosawa quote will be great too. Scholar types sure love that film, I remember Tadao Sato saying it had his favourite moment in cinema when the guy looks back over his shoulder as he's about to be beheaded. It's definitely hard to nail down specific influences, people tend to play it safe and speak in generalities even when it's easy to guess what they mean.
On that note, I read here that in the Yume Pictures R2 Branded to Kill interview Suzuki discusses directors he's influenced. I'm not quite willing to get a region free player yet but if anyone's seen that and it has anything new, please let us know. Doctor Sunshine talk 00:16, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Now available : a free (CC-By-SA) picture

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Hi, User:Arria Belli (from french Wikipedia chapter's OTRS) contacted the Spanish writer Carlos Aguilar, owner of an original picture with Seijun Suzuki. Aguilar kindly agreed to share his picture under a free license (CC-By-SA). The picture may need some editing (ie. to improve luminosity and contrast), but we have now at least one free image, that may be use for this article. Great isn't it ? many thanks to Arria Belli and Carlos Aguilar ! Benjamin.pineau (talk) 15:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Nikkatsu paid Suzuki ¥1&000000, a fraction of his original claim

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Surely this is a typo? Or how should this figure be understood? HermannusAlemannus (talk) 18:10, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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